The General Economics Thread

I heard from a podcast that many countries are making efforts to nationalize their industries (airlines among them) in reaction to the crisis. The idea is to protect them from foreign takeovers.

So do you guys think this is a good or bad idea?

Bad

That's like asking if we think the Sun rising is good or bad. Could be good, could be bad. I don't see "protection from takeover" as a coherent reason to nationalize industries, but I have no idea what economic theory they are operating under. Also, you aren't citing any sources, which would be helpful. "A podcast" could be anything.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 25th 2020 at 4:56:27 AM

Nationalising airlines makes as much sense as anything, if they're going to intentionally transmit profits into stock and are constantly running on almost non-existent margins. International transport is important but they collapse if you so much as blink at them.

Outright nationalization is usually a bad idea, but I could see making certain industries into utilities.

Aren't utilities often nationalized? And if they're not, why not? If a service is not safe to be primarily run by the market, such as healthcare, then it's logical to have it run by the state.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Mar 25th 2020 at 3:29:03 AM

If there is a high risk of oligopoly, then nationalized is also better, because privatization will result in higher prices and lower quality.

In the case of airlines, there's enough competition, at least in the US, that nationalization isn't necessary per se, but I can see why that would be considered an option in other countries where there's only a handful of airlines.

Yes, the USA merely has to bail out the airlines that spent their profits for the past god knows how long on stock buybacks. Not sure loaning it to them is a good investment.

Edited by RainehDaze on Mar 25th 2020 at 11:02:14 AM

It was a podcast from a prominent Dutch newspaper, NRC, called Haagse Zaken. I figured quoting it wouldn't be much use, since it is in Dutch, but here it is.

I think something that would benefit from being turned into a utility is internet connections. Having affordable internet, like streaming water and electricity, is so important and valuable to so many people that it would make sense to me to make it universally available for set prices, and to have its quality assured by the government.

Edited by Redmess on Mar 25th 2020 at 1:23:47 PM

<squints at the name> The Hague Chronicle? (It's more like "business report", but...)

"Haagse zaken" means something like "business in The Hague", specifically politics.

It's basically a political podcast on various Dutch politics issues (like the nitrogen crisis, for instance).

This NRC article seems to be the source for that story. It is question 7.

Basically, the main issue is whether or not KLM should be co-nationalized by France and the Netherlands, or even fully nationalized by the latter (where KLM was founded and still operates today).

Edited by Redmess on Mar 25th 2020 at 3:35:02 PM

Well, it's telling us about the monkey business, nè? Report = "to chronicle" or "to speak on the record".

I guess it could also be "Enqiurer", but not really: "om te sê" or "tel my lekker stories" is more the feel. <_<

I don't know what language you're trying to speak there, but it's not Dutch.

But yeah, I guess "The Hague chronicle" could work. This is not about translating the title of the podcast, though.

Edited by Redmess on Mar 25th 2020 at 3:37:16 PM

Afrikaans. And, yes: I do know it's the bastard stepchild of the Diets-derived lingos. (Crossing with Fries' cousin and taking a knife to the grammar most of the family loves hasn't helped.)

But, I also know trying to approach Nederlands from my Hochdeutsch is a worse idea.

Mind you, the spelling is more like Diets/ Middle English than Nederlands currently is. You guys got drunk on High German in the late C19th.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Mar 25th 2020 at 2:59:40 PM

Alright. Well, it's just a podcast about various political issues, internal party politics, that kind of thing. Nothing particularly sensationalist.

I gotta say, hearing about issues like the nitrogen crisis and such was quite a change from the high drama that is US politics.

Odd bit of trivia I've picked up amidst all the worries of a recession. Statistically speaking, average lifespans increase during recessions. While suicide rates do go up, other causes of death like alcohol-related deaths and traffic accidents decrease.

I guess it's because when there's less money to go around, you're not splurging on wild hedonistic and risky activities that can get you killed.

The one thing that needs to become a nationwide utility is the electrical grid.

Really? How about water?

Also, isn't electricity already a utility?

Edited by Redmess on Mar 26th 2020 at 3:48:43 PM

water, electricity, public transport, internet, communication. in general, essentials are what i think should be nationalized

I agree, those things should be nationalized. It prevents such ridiculous things as our transit company trying to ban students from trains during rush hour.

Water would be really difficult to link up nationwide for technical reasons, but there is a need for more centralized coordination at the state and regional level.

I don't think it needs to be linked up nationwide to be a national utility, right?

Hmm. I see no advantage if water is not going to be exchanged across state borders. I believe that's a constitutional requirement because only interstate commerce comes under Federal authority.

The idea of linking up water nationally was discussed back in the 1960s and got enough political opposition to kill it. It's not happening.