Pillars of Eternity

DOS 2 came out 8 months earlier. WHAT bad timing?

Kingmaker came out 4 months after Deadfire. And was savaged by users on launch. Again, what timing?

Edited by Ghilz on Nov 11th 2019 at 12:12:17 PM

I don't think I have to tell you these are games with a long shelf life, right? Look at how long Skyrim continued to actively sell, even before that HD rerelease. The modding scene and Larian's continuous updates are still going even now. Deadfire just never built up that kind of momentum, but I don't think they really could have been prepared for DOS 2 at the point when they started development.

I'm not saying bad judgment about timing, just that events beyond their control didn't work out in their favour.

My issue, even as a kickstarter of POE, is very much what Ghilz said a few posts ago. I just could not get into POE, so I had no interest in a sequel.

I'm not even sure I could pinpoint where the issue lie, beyond the "Thought I wanted it, but really didn't" meme.

I haven’t gotten this game yet cuz I thought it was coming out on switch and it still hasn’t

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter

Hmm, gotta admit that I did find something off with POE 1 and find it much harder game to replay than POE 2.

I think it has something to do with pacing and how aimless you feel sometimes?

POE 2 was a lot better...partly because it didn't bring back Durance.

Disgusted, but not surprised

I didn't play 1, but I seemed to keep hearing Durance was the most interesting party member (while also being the absolute worst)

Edited by VutherA on Nov 11th 2019 at 12:17:58 PM

Durance is an interesting companion, but he is also the absolute worst yes.

Okay so I was super into the idea of POE as someone who adored the Infinity Engine games. Unfortunately POE 1 ended up being a follow up in the vein of the original Baldur's Gate instead of any of the successors. Which is a problem because Baldur's Gate 1 is the WORST IE game for obvious reasons: The individual zones are boring, the characters are unpleasant, all the interesting lore has no impact on the plot, and the story is boring until the first interesting plot beat at the very end. These are problems that impact both games!

I reached the final dungeon and decided I didn't care about what happened to any of these people.

So somebody gave me a spare Steam key for POE 1 (no DLC( and I'm playing it for the first time now.

I always play casters so I was thinking either Priest or Wizard. I went with Wizard *which is more like D&D Sorcerer but whatever) because none of the Deities really aligned with how I imagine my character's personality. It strikes me as very weird that half the description of this one god is how he supposedly possessed some dude and then they attacked another country and now they maintain a nation of religious fanatics. Only he's the god of Benevolence and hates Cruelty. So I couldn't actually play a religious fanatic Priest of this guy. Like...what?

No real evil god choices in this game compared to Kingmaker. It's really just the one about secret hatred.

Stats: 16 Might, 7 Constitution, 16 Dexterity, 10 Perception, 16 Intellect, 13 Resolve. Everyone says Resolve is a dump stat but I am all about RP'ing and it wouldn't make sense for my impression of my character to have low Resolve.

So are there armor penalties for casting in this game? If so, it doesn't mention it. In a modern RPG like this I can't imagine them failing to mention something so important so you must be able to wear heavy armor even as a Wizard with no problems.

Having a mage wear Heavy Armor is just wrong, though. Unless you're like a Final Fantasy Red Mage where you can do a bit of everything but aren't super at anything. I think a trade-off in magic power and versatility for the ability to wield swords and wear armor is acceptable.

Also fuck that dwarf. I had to run around to make sure I didn't hit him with my AOE spells because he won't lift a finger to help you kill the two bandits but if you hit him, he will join them in attacking you. I'm sorry I went through all the trouble of sparing him. I thought he'd be a temporary companion or something I really could use one given I have such a limited arsenal and am made of tissue paper.

I couldn't say why but I found Baldur's Gate 1 so much more fun than Planescape. Sure nothing fucking happened in BG 1 but I had fun doing nothing. I don't think I ever had fun in Planescape: Torment.

Also apparently the Stash function was invented for folks like me who will ALWAYS grab all the loot even if I have to come back multiple times. Thank you, Obsidiain.

You guys ever read one of the full ability descriptions in the Knights of the Old Republic games? I tried but my eyes always glazed over after a bit and I was as confused as a caveman handed a laptop. I just figured "this has higher numbers and is an evolution of an earlier ability so it must be better." I can't recall if Neverwinter Nights was so confusing but this game at least definitely isn't. Nice, concise skill descriptions.

Edited by Nikkolas on May 26th 2020 at 12:18:41 PM

I think I missed your Kingmaker playthrough, so I have to check, do you prefer playing clerics of evil gods?

I actually never made it very far in Pathfinder. I just spent forever coming up with a character, doing research, buying Pathfinder books, and then wandered off. My brain is broken.

But yeah, I think serving an evil deity is one of the most intriguing thing about fantasy games like this, D&D, Not!D&D (Pathfinder), and so-on. It's a fascinating concept when you got societies like the Drow built all around veneration of an evil god.

Also I am thrilled to learn POE 2 has multiple endings and faction choices. This is the kinda thing I live for. It was what brought me to WRPG's in te first place, all thoe Mages vs. Templas and Imperials vs. Stormcloak debates. I wanted to be a part of them and give my own opinion. The fact POE has something similar will help keep me motivated and focused.

Edited by Nikkolas on May 26th 2020 at 1:06:51 AM

Well uh, hopefully ye later manage to finish Kingmaker or have better luck with Wrath of the Righteous xD

So the idea of the gods in this game is that they can all be worshipped by both good and evil people, to justify both good and evil goals. They're distant enough for that. Like real gods. And so the god of forgiveness and light supposedly descended to earth and had his followers go on a crusade against other nations and religions. Sound like anyone you know?

Talk to Eder about it, in the first village, standing next to the old temple to that god. He's the game's fighter companion, and as a fragile mage you're probably going to need him.

Heavy armor kind of isn't worth it for anyone unless you specifically build around it, even fighters (medium is generally good enough). But you *can* build specifically for it, with any class. The system is very flexible in that sense. A rogue with a greatsword and an arquebus, for example. A paladin who cycles through their weapon slots firing off a brace of pistols before closing to melee, pirate-style.

Edited by Unsung on May 26th 2020 at 9:38:13 AM

Thanks for telling me about Eder. I had seen him on the map but didn't pay it nay mind.

He's the only reason I've managed to get even this far in the Temple of Eothas. Unfortunately my strategy of have him charge into a room and get all the Shadow to crowd around so I can blast them with me and Aloth's AOE spells isn't quite that great. I've been advised to go and actually collect more party members instead of trying to do all this with two Wizards and one Fighter.

Also Aloth is like the most untrustworthy dude ever. My Watcher - or whatever the official name for the PC is - is just in dire need of help so you take what you can get. And I can't afford even a Level 1 Adventurer so....

I killed that couple for that ghost. Justice must be dealt out and a promise is a promise. I had told that spirit I'd help it seek vengeance and the woman's revelations, even granting that they might be true, really don't change anything. If you say you will do something, you do it.Simple as that.

Possibly related, I was looking at the Deities list in the game and I wish I could be a Priest of Woedica. She sounds far more my type.

Edited by Nikkolas on May 26th 2020 at 9:10:43 AM

This is based on Baldur's Gate logic, so you're not necessarily expected to try and do every dungeon or fight every enemy as soon as you see them. (You still can, but you don't have to.) You can go and level up and try and recruit more companions first — there's a priest of Magran to the area due south of Gilded Vale, and a chanter (a bard) at Caed Nua, the southern castle. For that matter you can make your way to Defiance Bay and come back with a full party and a few more levels.

You can actually be a priest/paladin of Woedica in the sequel. She's very popular in Aedyr, where Aloth is from (ie. Britain), and hence pretty unpopular in the Dyrwood after their having fought their war of Defiance (ie. independence) *from* Aedyr.

Edited by Unsung on May 26th 2020 at 9:50:41 AM

Yeah my Background is an Aedyr Aristocrat. I got the Guidebook and really liked the summary of the Empire.

I was thinking of Slave but how would a slave know wizard spells and stuff? Maybe next game.

Aloth is totally ripping me off, though. Aedyrian Elven Wizard.

I wish the games said a bit more about the roles of women in these various societies, though. The blurb in the game for selecting a female PC gives only the vaguest, most tantalizing hints.

Edited by Nikkolas on May 26th 2020 at 9:59:44 AM

You probably don't keep dropping in and out of a Scottish accent, though. I thought he was boring at first, but he grows on you, eventually.

Aloth's actually a good example of how the classes are flexible. Build him as a secondary warrior/rogue, the way his rapier and leather armour point you towards. With the right combination of buffs he can be a solid melee combatant, and he can take the spells you don't. Two wizards can play off each other pretty nicely, and as usual they get all the best spells. The widest variety, anyway.

For the most part, women can do any job in the setting, hence Calisca being a fighter and wilderness guide. But there are exceptions, notably the Vailian Republics. You do get to find this stuff out as you play.

Edited by Unsung on May 26th 2020 at 6:55:49 AM

Well that is good to hear. I figured I'd get morr specifics on culture and stuff in the game itself.

And thanks for the advice. That is indeed a good idea on how to build him. I got a lot of game left so plenty of time.

I’m playing a monk/fighter that does this in deadfire and it’s great. Except minus the closing to melee—she just reloads her gun in a bit over a second. But if you decide to get close, get ready to be punched in the kidneys.

Also I love Deadfire. This world is such a delight.

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter

I don't knows shit about POE 2 really but what I've gleaned from the raging argument elsewhere is that there are four factions and it's about imperialism and colonialism. So Imperials vs. Stormcloaks again. I think I might guess where my sympathies will lie.... Assuming there's an Ulfric, anyway. No matter how just your cause is, if it has poor leadership, that kinda taints the whole thing.

And ya know, while turn-based bis best, Real Time with Pause is just fine. The point is I need a battle system that allows me time to think and stuff and that is what both systems are alla bout so what does it matter.

I had a good talk with Eder. Definitely he best companion so far, out of the two of them. He helped really drive home how fucked the Hollowborn condition is more than anyone else has so far with the story of puting animal souls in the children and what eventually happens to hem. Is that what is gonna happen to C Calisca's sister and her child? Is that the cure I'm on my way to get? I hope not. Better to just....kill the baby right away than to do that.

Lot of talk about how this is a bleak game compared to something like Kingmaker or Divinity: Original Sin 2. I can't comment on those other two games but I can definitely see this claim already. Apparently things don't get much happier than Gilded Vale and its mad lord and hanging corpses and soulless children. Make The Witcher look positively cheery.

I like it, though. People were talkin a bout Kingmaker having party banter. Now, Dragon Age Origins was my first WRPG ever. I love it, it's a great game. But ya know, I played Baldur's Gate 1: Enhanced Edition with the new companions. I remember distinctly that the half-vampire girl stood out to me because she talked in "New Bio Ware." She sounded like Felicia Day and she spoke in that Buffy-influenced manner that is all over Dragon Age. And there's obviously nothing wrong with that in and of itself sine I love Dragon Age and its companions. But it was so out-of-place in the otherwise very generic, very traditionally-written Baldur's Gate 1. I bring this all up because I like that Pillars of Eternity is different from the new Bio Ware. Again, I still love Bi O Ware (well, it's BW from ten years ago now but whatever) but nothing is great all the time. I think this game benefits a lot from having a more straight form of writing and dialogue and something more colorful would detract from the experience. IMO, of course.

Grab all the Xaurip Spears. 5CP a piece! That add up when you have a billion of them. God bless Stash.

Are Gems just for selling or will I need them cor crafting?

After Eder woke me up from a bad dream after Camping, I suddenly had a thought. Is...is he the Alistair of this game? It never dawned on me until now that there might be Love Interests in this game. As I said, it's so different from Dragon Age. But ya know, strip away the Buffy speak, and Alistair was a very classic Knight in Shining Armor. Eder kinda feels the same to me. They've both suffered a lot of hardship but they remain resolutely very good people. And this isn't even getting into them both being awesome Tanks.

Thankfully the potion I whipped up for the woman was just a magical placebo. I told her it wouldn't work, though. Again, fuck lying. My Reputation is even; Honest 1 and Aggressive 1.

Ah, the infamous Durance. I've heard a decent bit about him, more than any other POE 1 companion. I don't know what he's gonna do but I got distinct "Goddamnit, Anders" feelings about him. Still, totally different from Anders in that he's clearly starting in a dark place. No real deception here. I like him, even though he won't let me talk to him any more for the time being. I think he's onto something in that men caused the Legacy. Dunno who or how but seems right.

After dealing wih Wirtan, I'm up to Aggressive 2. He had it coming, though. I told him not to lie to me and then when he spills his guts it just makes it even worse.

Do I ever need Scouting to find hidden things out in the field or is it just for dungeons?

I spared Raedric as part of my deal with Osyra. Now I'm Neutral in Defiance Bay. Is that good? Besides, I didn't wanna help some greedy bum, anyway.

I notice a lot of Paladin dialogue choices. I think I'm gonna be a Paladin for POE 2. Can you be alike a caster Paladin? It is a thing you can do in D&D if you Multiclass right.

Think I'm gonna stop there for now. Killing everyone in Radric's Hold took a long, long time. I got a lost a lot, too, as is my custom. But now I am rolling in money and loot. Honest 2 and Aggressive 2 right now. Things are looking good for me and my buddies. Sorta a sausagefest right now, though.

POE 2 makes the question much more interesting than Skyrim because it's not just "Colonialism vs Imperialism" And theres more factions.

There's aspect of that, but the native faction is heavily stratified and filled with inequality - the vast majority of its people living as an underclass, unable to feed themselves. Similarly, there's an anarchist faction... that's made entirely of pirates and whose entire model of existence is predatory onto their neighbors. Then there's the two factions for colonialism (Mercantile Oligarchy Vs Imperialism). It makes the question a lot more interesting because every faction is heavily flawed in many ways. And some factions are bad but have people who you will care about who are doomed if you go against the faction.

Edited by Ghilz on May 27th 2020 at 4:00:49 AM

Well then it's New Vegas. Same difference, really.

Yes, Skyrim and New Vegas are both good RP Gs. Seems like it's impossible to like both Bethesda and Obsidian these days but I do.

nah the factions are actually fully implemented and none of them are cartoonishly evil. So not New Vegas.

Deadfire's four factions are more like a twist on the four endings from FNV. The four factions are the two opposing colonial trading companies (think both West India Company and mid-2000s corporate-backed military adventurism), the local tribes (who have a caste-based proto-communist system that worked when all the tribes were the size of small towns but is showing its flaws as the tribes try to show a united front under a relatively recent monarchy), and Old Vailian pirates (further divided into traditionalists who want to reclaim the old empire and new bloods who, like real-world pirates, like the newfound freedom and equality they've found, albeit in crime). Using fantasy as a metaphor for modern America is Josh Sawyer's thing.

I think a lot of people just find real-time kind of daunting, not having grown up with it. It'd help if there was a better tutorial in any of these games, or online. Anywhere.

Eder is like a trying-less-hard version of Alistair in a way, I suppose. Never really thought about it, but yeah. He's your funny sidekick tank. I like him better, personally, he doesn't quip as often but I find him funnier when he does. And yeah, I figured you of all people would get Durance. He's Kreia-esque, in some ways. Another Avellone NPC. He's kind of the anti-Anders, in that he already built his bomb and blew up a religious figure, fifteen years ago.

This was the first game Obsidian ever did without any other publisher holding the reins. That means no romances, and yeah, it gets pretty dark in places. That said, while there aren't any romances in the first Pillars, you can actually romance most of the new companions in Deadfire. Don't hold out for Eder or Pallegina, though.

You do need gems for crafting, yes. Like you already figured out, you'll get plenty of money from selling non-magical equipment. Scouting can reveal hidden caches out in the wilderness though if your Mechanics is high enough you'll discover them whether you're in scouting mode or not. Not as much outdoors as in caves and dungeons, but still.

Paladins and priests are cool, but they're more restricted in terms of roleplay (specifically dispositions) if you want to keep your bonuses. You'll see other class- and disposition-locked options as you get into the big city. Part of the reason you see those options with Raedric is because he himself is a paladin sworn to Berath. And as or whether you made the right choice, well, he's the one hanging all those people in Gilded Vale, and he did murder his wife. Kolsc might be greedy, but Raedric is insane. But this being Obsidian, the best option's not necessarily going to be obvious or, y'know, fair.