...is that a Transcaucasian tradition? Kurds and Turks also duke it out in Western cities.
Just because someone left their homeland, doesn't mean they left their animosities behind.
Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.Serbia apologizes to Azerbaijan for selling weapons to Armenia.
Turkey slammed Armenian attacks on Azerbaijan; Istanbul makes it clear it firmly stands behind Baku as usual. They're even having joint military drills.
Edited by TheWildWestPyro on Aug 8th 2020 at 1:11:28 AM
Christ, I don’t think anyone needs a damned thing in the Caucasus happening right now.
Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.Not part of the conflict proper, but Pashinyan just congratulated Belarus' Lukashenka on his "re-election" (link in Belarusian, I'm going by Google Translate). If there ever was anyone who should've known better about authoritarian leaders trying to secure a fraudulent mandate in the face of nationwide protests... though admittedly Belarus is far away, Azerbaijan is near, and Armenia has got to feel that it needs all the support it could get from its EAEU peers.
Edited by eagleoftheninth on Aug 10th 2020 at 2:56:55 AM
Echoing hymn of my fellow passerine | Art blog (under construction)I imagine that that complaint will help with Russia's toilet paper shortage.
Aliyev is certainly getting feisty. The falling oil price will put a timeline on his ability to act, Ankara's Neo-Ottoman antics are giving him international allies, and he can kick Armenia's ass at the moment things stand.
But then there is Putin.
I have to wonder if he thinks he can achieve a fait accompli with Nagorno Karabakh before Moscow can physically intervene....
Erdogan got in hot water with NATO for buying Russian missiles so he could shoot down his own planes in the event of another coup.
Well, it looks like he ain't getting more anytime soon, as the Caucasus skirmish pits Russia and Turkey against each other once again.
Turkey has been keeping its S-400s in storage instead of activating them, anyhow. They're a misfit for its current IADS infrastructure, Russia fluked out on the tech transfer side and they've probably decided that they'd rather have the F-35 after all.
Echoing hymn of my fellow passerine | Art blog (under construction)Moscow must have figured Turkey would bend and decided to get as much money out of them as possible without sacrificing anything in return.
Also, to keep it back on topic, one of Aliyev's ministers is accusing Russia of arming Armenia through the crisis. Armenia, meanwhile, is doing the same about Turkey.
The actual skirmish may be over, but it looks like the scabs have been torn off this particular wound.
Looks like there was a major flare-up in fighting over Artsakh just now, with artillery strikes on Stepanakert and at least one Azerbaijani helicopter shot down.
Edited by eagleoftheninth on Sep 27th 2020 at 12:11:14 PM
Echoing hymn of my fellow passerine | Art blog (under construction)https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/9/27/armenia-azerbaijan-clashes-live-news
AJ's providing live coverage.
Fighting Flares Between Azerbaijan and Armenia.
The military action centered on the breakaway province of Nagorno-Karabakh, an Armenian separatist enclave in Azerbaijan. Ethnic tensions and historical grievances in the mountainous area north of Turkey and Iran have made kindling for conflict for decades.
The fighting on Sunday, however, was reportedly more severe than the typical periodic border skirmishes, and both governments used military language describing the events as war. Before Sunday, the last major escalation was in 2016.
This year, a small flare-up in July went almost ignored. The mediators of a diplomatic settlement process, France, the United States and Russia, are distracted and increasingly at odds over other issues, analysts say. The conflict simmered, all but forgotten, until Sunday.
“Horrible news” from the Caucasus, Thomas de Waal, a senior fellow with Carnegie Europe, wrote on Twitter. The fighting was “already a small war.” Both sides reported civilian dead and wounded.
“People are not happy,” Iosif Adamyan, a hotelier in the breakaway region’s capital, Stepanakert, said in a telephone interview after he woke up on a balmy fall morning to explosions, shooting and the rumble of tanks on the streets.
“The planet has enough problems already,” he said.
By early afternoon, Azerbaijan said its forces had advanced to capture seven villages and had surrounded an unspecified number of Armenian troops it was threatening to kill if they did not surrender. Armenia claimed it was holding fast and had destroyed Azerbaijani tanks and helicopters.
Also worrying observers was that Turkey’s president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, was more openly backing Azerbaijan than during previous escalations, positioning Turkey and Russia on opposite sides of a second conflict in the region similar to their divisions over the Syrian civil war. Mr. Erdogan blamed Armenia as “the biggest threat to peace in the region.”
Nikol Pashinyan, the Armenian prime minister, declared a state of emergency and mobilized the country’s male population. “The enemy has started an attack,” he wrote on Facebook. He said, “This aggression was preplanned.”
Mr. Pashinyan said the military of the Karabakh region, which claims to be an independent state but is mostly unrecognized, had repelled an attack. In a televised address, Mr. Pashinyan said civilians had suffered but did not specify how many. In Karabakh, the authorities said fighting had killed 16 of their soldiers and wounded about 100 more.
Azerbaijan said it was responding to cross-border artillery shelling. Its Ministry of Defense then issued a statement saying it had begun a “counterattack” with tanks, helicopters and rocket artillery.
In a statement carried by Russian news agencies, Azerbaijan said the military operation had destroyed “troops, military objects and equipment of the Armenian armed forces” near the border as well as deeper inside the country. It said it destroyed 12 short-range antiaircraft installations in Armenia.
Azerbaijan’s state news agency, Azertac, carried a statement by President Ilham Aliyev airing grievances against Armenia, including an accusation that Armenia was settling members of its diaspora in the disputed Karabakh region.
“It is as a result of Armenia’s hypocritical, unconstructive and false policy that the negotiations have actually stopped” for a settlement to the long-running conflict, it said. “They are deliberately provoking us, and they will see the bitter consequences.”
In past flare-ups, both sides have exaggerated their successes and the scale of their enemies’ violations of cease-fire agreements, though the potential for a wider war has always been clear. The Karabakh region maintains a system to call up nearly its entire male population as minutemen, and this mobilization was announced Sunday morning. Azerbaijan said 14 of its civilians had been killed or wounded.
Fighting in and around the Karabakh region, which Armenia calls Artsakh, was among the most vicious of the early post-Soviet conflicts. A cease-fire was declared in 1994, but violence has often flared up since. France, Russia and the United States mediate the cease-fire.
All three countries called on Sunday for negotiations. Both Armenia and Azerbaijan have been hard hit by the coronavirus pandemic, which is still spreading uncontrolled in the region. Armenia reported 226 new cases in the past day and Azerbaijan 130.
Moscow sells weapons to both sides and has also brokered cease-fire agreements, but its military posture in the region favors Armenia, where Russia has a military base. The Armenian diaspora in France and the United States has aided the Karabakh region, including by financing construction of a strategic mountain access road.
The war in Karabakh is one of the half-dozen so-called frozen conflicts of the former Soviet Union that got caught in eddies of ethnic violence or great power competition. These six de facto independent states — small territories in Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova and Azerbaijan — exist alongside the 15 former Soviet nations but are mostly unrecognized.
Karabakh is distinct from the others for the depth of the ethnic enmity between the sides and because Russia has played a role as a mediator more than instigator. It is the only frozen conflict zone not occupied by Russian troops.
Even if not formally declared, I think its pretty safe to say that Armenia and Azerbaijan are now in a state of war.
This is not a drill.
Edit: According to the BBC, swaths of both Armenia and Azerbajan are under martial law, Azerbaijan appears to be ordering a full military mobilization, Turkey stands by Azerbaijan.
Edited by AzurePaladin on Sep 27th 2020 at 3:52:34 PM
The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -FighteerAs if 2020 couldn't get even worse.
Edit:
We can guess that Russia will stand with Armenia as well. Christ, this is going to end up as a repeat of the Crimean War, only without Britain and France to mediate things.
Edited by raziel365 on Sep 27th 2020 at 12:48:20 PM
Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.Like I said to my Armenian-Uruguayan friend.
"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"
Watch me destroying my countryRussia is apparently calling for peace. One gets the feeling Putin realized just how deep the shit the world could be in if this continues to drag in other players.
Edit: Armenia orders full mobilization.
Edited by AzurePaladin on Sep 27th 2020 at 3:52:43 PM
The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -FighteerProbably, Putin is surely aware that a war in the middle of a pandemic is the last thing Russia and the region needs, and even if he could support Armenia to victory that still means that the Black Sea becomes a battleground between Russia and Turkey.
Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.Russia doesn't have anything to gain from an escalation. Both Armenia and Azerbaijan are friendly post-Soviet neighbours that still buy a lot of Russian military hardware, unlike, say, Georgia and Ukraine. And Putin's great power designs against Turkey are mostly limited to Syria (and to a lesser extent Libya); outside occasional flare-ups in those conflict zones, relations between the two nations have been more or less lukewarm.
Update: Rundown of verifiable equipment losses on both sides.
Edited by eagleoftheninth on Sep 27th 2020 at 2:57:18 AM
Echoing hymn of my fellow passerine | Art blog (under construction)Yerevan reported that Turkey shot down an Armenian Air Force fighter a few minute ago. BBC broke it.
Big if true, but that's a pretty big if.
Echoing hymn of my fellow passerine | Art blog (under construction)Reports I’m seeing say it was in Armenian airspace when shot down.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranI swear, if Ankara even thinks about trying to hogtie NATO into this obvious non-defensive bullshit they are pulling...
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
So far:
Hostilities have escalated in general.
Azerbaijan dismisses Armenia's claims of it being attacked from the Nakchivan Autonomous Region of Azerbaijan.
And apparently Armenia violated the ceasefire 42 times in the past 24 hours.