U.S.-centric policy and international tropers

@Gilgameshkun: I think it's a mistake, though an understandable one, to be hurt that something is cut out of a feeling that it's a qualitative judgment. I don't think it is; I don't think we're saying that porn is bad. We're saying that for a variety of reasons it's proved problematic to have pornographic works covered on this site.

I like quite a few works that are considered unsuitable under that rule. I know a number of the other mods do; and I know that, of the 5P council, at least two (Martello & Meeble) have said that they like some pornographic works. I don't think any of us are saying that such works are bad, or that we should feel bad for liking them.

I like porn too, and some works that are Plot With Porn. Doesn't mean I think they belong on a Family Friendly wiki.

We are not calling people pedophiles or perverts or whatever for liking a work that we get rid of under the new content policy. We are, however, removing them, and we expect people to remain civil about it.

Now, I'm starting to see this thread mirror the one for discussing content policy in the new subforum. Is there any reason to keep it?

edited 4th May '12 9:26:22 PM by Fighteer

Martello, why do you have such a hostile tone? Why do you doubt my sincerity? Is there nothing here that cannot be reasonably negotiated on the honor system? But if you must know, my friend who deleted his login cookie was anoni. To be honest, among my friends I was the more patient one when it came to TV Tropes policy decisions. Another friend Ookamikun left a little earlier because of disgust over what he perceived as TV Tropes being too eager and hypocritical in removing certain kinds of content.

The baseline is basically what all the different countries can agree to as a consensus. Pretty fundamental concepts like not having sex with prepubescent children. Many of the other principles are up in the air, and the baseline involves endeavoring to tolerate and assume good faith when someone else's standards respectfully differ from your own. That way, everyone is entitled to their cultural expression in a context of civility among equals.

And no, in many ways the United States is considered pretty socially conservative when compared to most of the world's other first world countries, especially compared to Europe, Canada and Australasia. Japan is its own unique complex case, as I outlined. American society on an international scale is usually considered to lean unambiguously to the right of center. In its political landscape, the U.S. Democratic Party is considered center-right, and the U.S. Republican Party is considered far-right. Most of these other countries are closer to an international center-left. I've often heard it said that "American liberals are European conservatives". In truth, Americans, even on the American left, are often perceived as being somewhat reactionary. And Americans on the right are often perceived as shockingly regressive and denialist. The parts of the U.S. closest to European and Canadian culture are places like, as I said, San Francisco and Massachusetts, where local American society is considered more internationally moderate. Americans often do not realize how deeply conservative their society appears in contrast to the societies of so many of these other first world countries.

edited 4th May '12 9:30:59 PM by Gilgameshkun

Gilgameshkun, you are arguing from emotion, which is understandable for someone who may have invested a lot of effort into articles for works that are now being cut. We are not, however, going to entertain a conversation about which country's standards are more or less appropriate for the wiki.

We picked U.S. standards as a guideline because they're what a majority of tropers and moderators are familiar with. We are not, however, applying precisely those standards; we are actually stricter in some ways.

Regardless, the fact is we are doing this. We are cutting objectionable content. It's not up for debate. You may contribute to the content violation policy discussion in the proper thread, but we will not entertain side conversations about cultural relativism when it comes to what constitutes unacceptable sexual exploitation of minors.

No more threads on the topic. Do it in one place. Locking.

edited 4th May '12 9:30:54 PM by Fighteer