Manga: Okane Ga Nai (Now P5 Only)

I thought Lebrel said it was emotionally scarring for the victim and that the rapist felt like a scumbag. Or are you saying it glorifies rape because a relationship still forms out of it?

@73: He is a teen. He's 18. His build is not really unrealistic for an 18-year-old; I've known real life men who had similar builds at that age. I think some of what we're running into here is that in the West, in animated/cartoon media, (generally speaking) the bigger the eyes, the younger the character. That's a common age shorthand in the West, but it's not true for manga.

And I think it does matter what age the intended audience would most likely perceive the characters as looking like. If the character is drawn in such a way that the intended audience consistently interprets them as adult/upper teens, then I sincerely doubt that the character was intended to pander to pedophiles, regardless of how those outside the target demographic might perceive the character.

And for what it's worth, this page has what a kid looks like in that manga. If you flip through the next few pages, you can see the proportions.

edited 2nd May '12 1:51:34 PM by Nocturna

How graphic is the rape anyway? I think that should help determine whether or not it is glorifying.

On first impression, to me, the picture looks like a girl in her late teens, being carried around by Andre the Giant. The extreme contrast in build makes it clear that the big guy is not just big, but HUGE. Most manga and anime I've seen have roughly proportional builds between their adults and kids, or the kids are actually proportionally stockier than the adults, which is the opposite of what we see here. I haven't seen anything that makes me think this falls under the pedopandering rules.

[1] Here's, briefly, Tiny Guy (Ayase) with (presumably) similar-aged (late teens), although somewhat manlier, Normal Guy. They're roughly of the same height.

For the record, the difference between Huge Guy Kanô and Tiny Guy Ayase is more than 30 cm (a foot), given that Kanô hasn't grown since his 3rd grade of senior high.

[2] Here's the entirety of the "past encounter" (where Ayase is underage)

Then, breakdown of that rape scene.

• [3] Rape scene begins (SFW).
• Next page shows general bodily fondling and licking, and restraining by holding (probably NSF Wish).
• Next page is broken into numerous shard-like panels which feature Ayase's/Kanô's face, some speech/thought bubbles (Ayase realises what's going on and is horrified) and assorted hands/feet, furniture... (Again, probably NSFW.)
• Next two three pages shows explicit, uncensored fingering and such. Ayase cannot do much to resist, having been drugged by villains earlier. Ayase ejaculates (fully/partly due to drugs? Doesn't seem to like it.) (Very NSFW)
• Next page has position shifting. Ayase mostly bluescreening. (NSFW)
• Next page features faded-out but explicitly implied (sorry for the oxymoron) penetration. Ayase's face displays terror much clearer than before, with a flow of tears, Wide Eyes and Shrunken Irises, and a prominent Shadow Of Terror underneath his eyes. (NSFW)
• Come next page, Ayase cries out in pain. Kanô realises what he's doing and seems to try and console A. (Miiight be NSFW... Nothing past Ayase's naked arms and Kanô's clothed upper body are shown altough the situation is suggestive.)
• Next page has Kanô thinking and caressing Ayase's head. (Safe)
• Then a full-page flashback to "the encounter". (Safe)
• Next page Kanô is dressing up and seems concerned about Ayase, who's huddled on the bed, trembling, weeping, and pleading to be let go to return to his cousin. (NSFW is non-frontal nakedness is an issue.)
• Next two pages, Kanô makes his deal about buying sex from Ayase for a set price per deed (hesitating/contradicting his words inside). Ayase looks somewhat terrified. (Safe, safeish (with a bit of butt and naked upper bodies).
• End chapter

At the beginning of the next chapter, and dripping down to the rest of the chapter, Kanô has a moral hangover (as judged by how he remembers Ayase's terrified, teary face) and/or is concerned whether Ayase can ever like him after what happened.

• First sighting of Ayase after the rape, not a happy face. Seems depressed and absent. Two pages later Kanô raises his hand to help Ayase (who hurt himself on a broken glass); Ayase retreats immediately in terror. Next page, Ayase continues to be fearful, Kanô realises in further depth how he has hurt Ayase, reflects on the possibility of having to rape Ayase again should he want sex with him, and deciding (again) to not let it go there again. Next page, further flinching.
• Comfort part of Hurt/comfort ensues.

As much as I'd like to elaborate on how the rape is played in the rest of the story, I cannot as it's been a long while since I saw the anime (I'm new to the manga and it seems to be a lot more complicated than the anime to boot)... All I can say is that the issue is not dropped and that it has repercussions further down in the plot.

//edit Okay I'm done here.

edited 2nd May '12 2:54:06 PM by peccantis

Thank you!

Hes just girly looking not pedo looking in this one.

A ha ha... Couldn't end it then, it sucked me right into reading >.<

Anyways, found that Loli Con thing.

Here as a joke, Kanô calls Mizoguchi Loli Con because Mizoguchi gushes about having Ayase wear a maid outfit.

Also, actual kiddie Ayase. Another with tiny soft hands. Compare and contrast with pages linked previously (or these hands).

edited 2nd May '12 3:33:45 PM by peccantis

Hm... well, since this isn't pornographic nor is it pro-pedophilic, I guess I'm cool with keeping it... providing it gets watched over to make sure it doesn't get any overly lewd edits from those sort of editors.

We could always just lock it to be safe. But honestly, I'm not sure even that is necessary. Well, right now it is, for the same reason Fate Stay Night is locked: There's a giant target painted on it.

If people want a cleaner page image, this IP thread/crowner has a number of candidates.

I definitely don't get pedo-vibes from the pictures linked so far. The character in question looks like an adult to me.

The porn question is a little tougher, though. The premise (person forced into sexual slavery, who then falls in love with his/her rapist who is portrayed as sympathetic from that point on) on the surface sounds a lot like that of Bondage Queen Kate, which is unquestionably porn with Excuse Plot in my opinion.

It also seems like a lot of pages were devoted to that rape scene linked earlier. I know someone said that there is an explicit scene about once per chapter, give or take. So my question is, are those scenes given a similar amount of focus, on average?

I would not say there is one sex scene per chapter; more like 2 per volume. It depends a bit on what you consider a sex scene; there is some additional making out (i.e., above the waist) and the occasional flashback / imagine spot, usually a panel or two long.

The other sex scenes are typically somewhat shorter than the first one (around 3-5 pages), although they are similarly explicit. By the standards of modern adult-targeted BL, it's a bit smutty but not that smutty.

Do you think you could give me a rough estimate of how many pages there would be per volume?

About 120 from looking at the page counts online.

That can't be right. It should be more like 170-200 (typical manga volume). Perhaps they're counting double-page spreads as one page?

OK, by count (not including cover, credits, etc. but including author's notes and chapter headers, etc):

• V1: ~190 pages
• V2: ~170 pages
• V3: ~150 pages
• V4: ~170 pages
• V5: ~170 pages
• V6: ~180 pages
• V7: ~120 pages - that's unusually short....

edited 3rd May '12 10:14:08 AM by lebrel

Ah, that might be true. I was just estimating based on page counts not actually reading it. That said, it's enough that even if there were 20 pages of sex in each volume, it wouldn't be the majority.

That definitely sounds like a pretty high plot to porn ratio, then. Thanks for the info!

I went and recorded each sex scene in the work... (Counting every page where clothes are off or there's heavy petting going on, and of course everything smuttier than that.)

• 15 pages in chapter 1.
• 2 pages in chap 2.
• 3 pages in chap 4. Kinda.
• 1 / ch 5.1
• 2 / ch 5.2
• 5 / ch 6
• 7 / ch 8
• 7 / ch 10
• 3 / ch 12
• 1 / ch 13
• 6 / ch 15.2
• 2 / ch 22
• 2 / ch 24.1
• 5 / ch 24.2
• 9 / ch 26
• 2 / ch 28
• 3 / ch 29
• 6 / ch 30
• 4 / ch 35
• 4 / ch 14
• 1 / ch 37

So if there' about 5200 pages in the manga, and 89 of them are smutty, that's 2 % Smut Quotient.

edited 3rd May '12 1:58:39 PM by peccantis

.....That's dedication.

Good work, but just pointing out that it's also about distribution and not just lump sum. If it's spread evenly in many places, it may be a concern.

That sounds fine to me. Although you forgot to move the decimal. That'd made 2% of it porn, not .02%. 2% is probably about what you'd find in FSN or something similar.

Oops. Will fix.

2% may seem like a small number but that's still a consistent amount of smut throughout the series.

Frankly, all I care about is whether or not the series is nothing but smut, and from the looks of things, it isn't.

^^ We've already given passes to things with the same amount of sex. I don't see how this is any worse.

Frankly, this looks like standard BL stuff to me but just a hair more explicit.