The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)

It's fine.

Let's move on. Let me see if I can find another series. Damn, I gotta get to sleep. Dang work... two days from now.

...Dragon Pink is porn. Let's just say that straight out. It's porn. I watched all three episodes. If there is another version of interest... I'll check it.

Yes, it helps that I've seen/read a lot of things. XD

edited 28th Jun '12 1:28:21 AM by Hydronix

There's still Sono Hanabira ni Kuchizuke wo.

Ro-Kyu-Bu has is available in 4 mediums; Light Novels, Manga, Anime and the PSP game. Locking the whole page means that none of those adaptations are tame enough. You have to consider that there are other alternatives like cleaning the page (which is clearly not being considered). If you want to clean it, you can just retain the basketball parts of the show. It's not that the fanservice is a major part of the show. You can describe the tropes of the show without placing the unnecessary fanservice tropes.

Yes, I admit that the premise involves the captain of Subaru's basketball team being kicked out because of being a lolicon. But it stops at episode 1 (I only watched the anime. Obviously, the manga and the anime both follow the LN). At its core, the show is about enjoying basketball. There are shower scenes, onsen episodes, but those are integral part of anime. If you don't want shows with shower scenes, onsen episodes, or groping, you might as well remove every anime here on TV Tropes. Yes, shower scenes, onsen episodes or the like might be present in anime, but you might have to ask, are the characters being sexualized in those scenes?

What versions exist?

The captain of Subaru's team never shows up onscreen, however. That can be ignored overall. However, the bath scenes and obvious fanservice cannot. The PSP version is however possible to base upon, if it's clean.

edited 28th Jun '12 1:30:58 AM by Hydronix

The main problem isn't shower and onsen scenes and whatnot. It's that's there's those involving 11-12 year old girls played sexually.

About the versions of Sono...?

Say, how does the fanservice in Ro-Kyu-Bu disturbing enough that the show itself deserves a cut while other shows with much greater fanservice don't?

Also

"Those are from the Manga, and the context if you read it was... let's get on a girl with big breasts cause we're perverts. There was no "reasonable" context."

That's only 1 scene. How about I ask you, can I write a page about Ro-Kyu-Bu without including all of those fanservice scenes that still have minimal effect on the understanding of the show? If yes, then do CLEAN the page, not lock it.

EDIT: @Kuro Bara Hime: Actually, we need someone who is expert in Japanese culture here. One reason is that, you're judging a trope (onsen scene) by the standards of your own culture. Heck, public bathing like onsen episodes (episode 5/6 can't remember exactly) are virtually present in almost all anime, particularly romance/harem/So L. Maybe bathing in Japan has its own cultural significance. I don't know. If this was just artificial trope created by anime producers for fanservice purposes, why is it abundant (even in tame shows) in anime (and not only present anime, you can see some pre-2004 anime having this)? Is it also (public baths) abundant in other Japanese media? (That's why we need to have someone who also watch other Japanese media to explain tropes present in Japanese media) If yes, then maybe these aren't necessarily seen as sexual by the Japanese audience.

edited 28th Jun '12 1:42:58 AM by melcarba

Those were with 11-12 year old girls. That's why it was cut. I also typo'd. I mean because some of the girls were perverts.

It's not porn. It's just pedophile fanservice. One scene is enough for pedophile stuff. Other fanservice is another story.

Yes, we're harder on the pedophile stuff. There's reasons for that.

edited 28th Jun '12 1:36:14 AM by Hydronix

The problem isn't the amount of fan service, it's that it involves elementary school girls.

On the subject of Sono Hanabira ni Kuchizuke wo.

It's a series of 10 H-games. There's also 1 completely clean spin-off called Hanahira.

There's also a hentai anime and a light novel.

Links?

@Melcarba: That discussion was had. We're going by American standards here. 11/12 year old groped has to have reasonable context(which is hard), or it's pedophile-pandering. I.E., if it was rape and played for horror. This isn't the case. It was solely played for fanserivce.

Some of the girls are perverts? (Is it just the manga, or does it also involve the anime) Please elaborate. Are you sure that you're not just putting malice on the characters? I didn't find anything malicious on the anime.

It would also be absurd to ignore the fanservice parts of Ro-Kyu-Bu while telling only of the basketball part. It would be faking that the series is clean of any objectionable elements.

@Sabbo: Pie may not be in the wrong. As I wrote in the other thread a few minutes ago, I recall any appeal for Lotte no Omocha, which was cut in the initial "panic purge", being rejected by Fast Eddie himself. There was some discussion but he cut it and had the final say. EDIT: nevermind, apparently I was mistaken on this last one.

edited 28th Jun '12 1:49:29 AM by GendoIkari

Links for Sono Hanabira ni Kuchizuke wo? Here's vndb links.

Sono Hanabira ni Kuchizuke o
Sono Hanabira ni Kuchizuke o: Watashi no Ouji-sama
Sono Hanabira ni Kuchizuke o: Anata to Koibito Tsunagi
Sono Hanabira ni Kuchizuke o: Itoshisa no Photograph
Sono Hanabira ni Kuchizuke o: Anata o Suki na Shiawase
Sono Hanabira ni Kuchizuke o: Kuchibiru to Kiss de Tsubuyaite
Sono Hanabira ni Kuchizuke o: Amakute Hoshikute Torokeru Chuu
Sono Hanabira ni Kuchizuke o: Tenshi no Hanabira Zome
Sono Hanabira ni Kuchizuke o: Amakute Otona no Torokeru Chuu
Sono Hanabira ni Kuchizuke o: Lily Platinum

Hanahira!

A Google search can easily find you the anime. It's likely no one on the site has read the light novel.

Not putting the specific fanservice tropes != ignoring the fanservice aspect. Also, it's NOT a significant part. You can just place "Fanservice" or "Ecchi" in the tropes list and just proceed with ordinary listing. No need to place groping or whatsoever as I'm sure that's just 1 scene in 1 chapter and it's not notable. I mean, how many times did the groping happen? In the anime it's only 1 time. It doesn't destroy the identity of the work had you not include it in the trope listing.

Correction; As I quoth from FE in the Lotte P5 thread:

That's only a devilhead, not an absolute decision. (Contrast stuff like KnJ, which he had outright said would not be returning.)

edited 28th Jun '12 1:54:20 AM by Sabbo

Oh, yay, downloads. I don't have the space anymore.

That works under the condition it's not pedophile-pandering. If the psp version lacks pedophile elements, fine. Otherwise, it has to go. We aren't just cutting porn here.

I have played as a ninja before. >_>

edited 28th Jun '12 1:58:30 AM by Hydronix

So many ninja posts...

I didn't get my point across. Even if you don't specifically tell of the fanservice aspects of a work, when it's a type of fanservice that can get really problematic, you cannot act like there isn't. And Ro-Kyu-Bu has that type of fanservice, as many links have shown abundantly. It is mainly about basketball, but still has several gratuitous sexually suggestive scenes of grade-schoolers [why did I have to type this *groan*]

edited 28th Jun '12 1:59:26 AM by GendoIkari

What counts as "pedophile-pandering" anyway? Without clearing that, users might just use it as a label? Do you consider the transformation scenes in Magical Girls as "pedophile-pandering"? You see, some people may consider just the existence of a loli character in the show as "pedophile-pandering"? Do you consider a single shower scene of a 10-year old girl as "pedophile-pandering"? How about undressing scenes? I'm sure there's a lot of that in anime. Do you consider the last scene of episode 1 in Listen to me Girls, I am your Father "pedophile-pandering"?

An 12 year old's chest is groped for the sake of fanservice. She does not act like an adult. She is 12.

For the most part, 15 has been the typical age for where it becomes "non-pedophilic". However, 12? Under special conditions, it may be noted.(background element) But this was played solely for fanservice/titilation. It can't be ignored here.

I really don't get why this needs to be explained...

I don't know what's so hard to understand. It has pictures of little girls drawn in such a way that it can't really be taken as any other way but trying to turn you on.

It's considered pedo-pandering if there's pictures of naked little girls that really can't be taken as any other way but trying to titillate you, and/or it says that there's nothing wrong with a child having sex.

" And Ro-Kyu-Bu has that type of fanservice, as many links have shown abundantly "

Where? Do you mean the promo art? Do you mean that single groping scene in the manga (which isn't exactly depicted the same in the anime)? I've seen only 2.

2 is enough when the context does not justify it whatsoever.

One of the cut Mangas has a real justification for it. And it's flimsy at best.

Look, those are more than enough because it's solely there for fanservice. It's sexualization of children.

Now let's move on. PSP version is the only one that has a chance whatsoever.

edited 28th Jun '12 2:08:14 AM by Hydronix

Topless little girls groping each others breasts is more than clear pandering.

We are not going to whitewash anything. The option to clean does not mean "omit mention of the material which panders to lolicons", it means clean overly lewd material in a work otherwise suitable for the wiki. It means that mentions of Absolute Cleavage that may read as "Check the boobs on that!" should be changed to something which is not gushy.