The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)

At the vary least he can check to see if any characters are child-like.

From what Komo said during the whole More-shtick, I think we need at least one more P5 member who won't automatically devil a work simply because "FURRIES AND GAYZ OMFF," you know?

From what I saw from CG rips, only one of them looks child-like. It is a blue haired girl named Messiah, or however you spell her name. She looks sort of risque, what with her small stature and her slender figure. From what little I can remember from my own playthrough, she also behaves somewhat emotionlessly. Guides I'm taking a look at with the hell of my disgustingly limited Japanese and the dubious help of Google Translate state that the protagonist can conceive a child with her when she has been captured and certain conditions are met, so she's at least at breeding age. Beyond that, I'm afraid it's a wild guess right now.

We really shouldn't go off of breeding age as a criteria. I just did a major dissertation on the YFZ Ranch Raid for school, and there were 13-year-olds giving birth at that compound. Obviously something we don't want on our site is a work of fiction where you can get a 13-year-old pregnant.

Indeed.

can you provide a link to a (hopefully sfw) pic of the character in question?

The vndb page has no lolicon tag or well anything really.

edited 10th Jun '12 10:51:53 AM by Shadis

• Hoping this is the right place to discuss the recent content policy change issues*

I'm noticing that the some of the articles which are not innately sex involved are being lumped into the rape ban, such as the article on "Mind Rape". Hopefully that should be fixed up soon.

Can someone link me to the post detailing the reason/event that led to this recent blanket ban regarding rape? (As well as any other topics that also got blanket-banned).

edited 10th Jun '12 10:54:37 AM by Menarker

Here. (SFW)

Here. I think Eddie's response to Google Ads more or less sums up what the issue was. For now, we're still waiting for a response.

edited 10th Jun '12 10:58:02 AM by Pyrite

There was an issue with Google, and Eddie put pages containing that word behind a curtain until the issue can be resolved. However, the moderation team asks that we not discuss this issue further until we hear back from Google and know what to do.

edited 10th Jun '12 10:56:51 AM by DarkConfidant

@4879: That's actually a point I didn't think of. Thank you.

But anyways, not much can be discussed about that since I don't remember the particulars well. We can only wait to get more information.

Wow... She's shorter and younger-looking than I remebered.

That is some #1 degree lolishit.

edited 10th Jun '12 11:05:09 AM by Sachiko

I think it best if we not concern ourselves with the rape issue until Fast Eddie gets back to us about the status of negotions with Google.

We really shouldn't go off of breeding age as a criteria. I just did a major dissertation on the YFZ Ranch Raid for school, and there were 13-year-olds giving birth at that compound. Obviously something we don't want on our site is a work of fiction where you can get a 13-year-old pregnant.

If part of the game mechanic is having the player character hunt down 13 year old girls to get them pregnant, then yes, that is a problem, but in a far for more general sense, I can imagine any number of scenarios for fictional works that have pregnant 13 year olds that would not be an issue. Teenage pregnancy, even early teenage pregnancy, is a fact of life, and something that fiction does deal with from time to time without being meant as a fetish thing for pedophiles.

edited 10th Jun '12 11:51:05 AM by Catbert

I think his main point is that 'child bearing age' should not be a consideration on whether something is pedo pandering or not.

edited to clarify.

edited 10th Jun '12 11:52:53 AM by Shadis

Well, technically it would be ephebophilia pandering, if it was anything.

edited 10th Jun '12 11:52:48 AM by MrAHR

Uh, I checked the character in question, and she's listed as Teen (granted, that's left ambiguous as to age), and to be fair to the game, it's set in a medieval-ish era, and it was not uncommon for women to be considered marriage age (and hence able to bear children) as low as 12-15 throughout many cultures.

Note - Due to high fetal birth rates, this was seen as a normal practice in many places to make sure one would be able to have kids, due to average life spans being far shorter than modern day due to less advanced sanitation, medical care, etc that led many people to dying at a young age, and that's not even factoring in many dying due to diseases considered incurable or dying in war, which was frequent in many medieval cultures.

Hence, very young women having children was not a sexual fetish, but considered justified by the above circumstances.

In fact, citing Sengoku Rance as an example, it's also had several other characters that would fall into this age range, and if it's indeed loli (my kanji reading skills are miserable, so I can't judge) then you'd have a point.

Frankly, it looks like the art style may have some bearing on this, but I will admit despite that her character design is leaning towards danger territory.

However, her exact age isn't known to me, so I can't make a value judgement, but I have seen the cg set as well.

P.S. - There a few other character ingame that database listed as Teen but they resemble adults (though they are fairies from what I can tell, albeit with adult bodies, which kinda muddies the water).

edited 10th Jun '12 12:33:19 PM by Rpgingmaster

Ha ha, oh please.

edited 10th Jun '12 1:22:10 PM by Samamander

Yeah, like in A Song Of Ice And Fire. There is a 13 years old pregnant in the very first book as a main character. We don't want "has 13 years girls pregnant" as your guideline to cutting things.

edited 10th Jun '12 2:44:27 PM by Heatth

This all comes back to guidlines being guidelines and not rules. Saying things like "A pregnant 13-yearold is lolishit" is just grounds for lots of meaningless arguments and rules lawyering, even if pregnant 13 year olds is right fucking weird.

She's in explicit sex scenes, and there's no way you can convince me she's over 16. That means it gets cut as pedotrash.

The far more subjective "a pregnant 13-year-old where undue focus is put on how she got that way is probably pedo-pandering" is less prone to Rules Lawyering.

While we shouldn't go "Pregnant 13 year old=cut" its obvious that.... Eiyuu involves it as a game mechanic that is to be... Exploited.

Bliss stage was cut for having underage sex as a game mechanic, and it was cut (although, Fatal contains spells that use underage sex as a mechanic as well (Such as, umm, using pedophilic RP as a requirement to cast spells blah, blip, or boom,) but since nobody bothered to read the the book (I read it simply for the sake of a dare/bet when I was younger,) so it didn't get cut.) Eiyuu does not seem like it would be any different from Bliss stage, if not worse for containing CG's of doing it. While it isn't translated, I found a forum post that explains that it is simple enough to be playable without reading a thing, and details how fun it is to get all the CG's without knowing what is going on whatsoever.

At the same time, it really is in the exact same boat as Sengoku Rance. It was described as having material that is roughly just as questionable as, what we are looking at now. The protagonist sounds like a serial rapist who isn't particularly discriminate, but unlike the case of Rance, I do not see any storytelling tropes on the page.

Basically: based on our past decisions, we could go either way on this, but I feel the decision should tilt far more in the direction of harshness based on what I have found. We should get a review, and according to the posts on other sides, we could have anyone do it! Although, someone who can read Japanese would be preferable. I could but I have all but forgotten almost all Kanji in the past few years, so I would have terrible comprehension.

@Akagikiba 2,

Of course. I was just exemplifying why absolutes are not really a good idea. Personally, I don't think the work we were discussing have any salvation, but I feel we need to be more flexible in the way we talk about these things.

@Hershele Ostropoler,

A Song Of Ice And Fire put some undue focus on how the 13 years old got pregnant. Just saying.

This series actually have many fucked up things (some of the pedophilic characters are not even portrayed at a bad light) and still isn't the kind of things we are looking to cut. That is why it is the perfect example of why guidelines must always stay as guidelines.

...I, um, didn't expect for that to get all crazy. Maybe I should've worded it as "we don't want a Visual Novel where the player-character is directly responsible for getting a 13-year-old pregnant", because that, and not "no 13-year-olds pregnant in fiction ever" was what I was going for. Sorry. -_-;

I just went around to the main page for the game Eiyuu x Maou (using a few translation engines and what little kanji skills I have) and browsed a few sites whose links I can't post here devoted to reviewing H Games, and based on all available information, I'd have to say we should give this one a tentative pass in the same sense as Sengoku Rance.

1. The game is primarily devoted to being in the shoes of a Villain Protagonist (except unlike Rance he's an even straighter example in universe because his enemies are other humans since's he's not human) who nonetheless is portrayed with some degree of sympathy since he and his people were attacked first (and he wouldn't have decided to start kicking puppies had humanity not fired the first shot).

The main point of the game is portraying his quest to not only fend off the invasion of humanity but show them why is was a REALLY stupid idea to tick off a sleeping giant.

2. Sex exists in the game, but mostly serves as a gameplay mechanic a la Sengoku Rance, and the amount of scenes compared to other game content is actually rather modest (though having not actually played the game I can't speak as to how spread out they are), and the protagonist may be a Rance-esque rapist, but that isn't his primary motivation (it's basically yet another extension of why he's a Villain Protagonist, again a la Rance), and Felser (the main character) is just not a very nice guy to begin with, and rape is but one way (of many) he would express this, but for the most part his primary means of making people suffer revolves around kicking their ass.

3. Most of what I've read indicates sex is part of the gameplay, but is not a dominating factor, and in fact is quite enjoyable for other gameplay elements (a la Sengoku Rance again).

4. In summation, given the above, I would give this a pass like Sengoku Rance, albeit I would make sure the page was given a cleaning just in case.

It has explicit underage sex. We don't want that here. End of story.

So let me see if I understand this. You are discussing whether or not a game that involves sex with underage anime characters is porn? Oh, how silly of me to forget, you say that it has other elements of gameplay as well. In that case it clearly isn't a fucked up porn game, despite the segments where the player fucks little anime girls. Those segments are obviously just part of the game's deep and moving story, right?

edited 10th Jun '12 5:00:11 PM by Samamander

You don't get it.

If a character looks young, acts young and you have sex with him or her, it is loli/pedocrap. Game with pedocrap = Unsalvageable. A exception could be made in the case that the character is confirmed to act like an adult rather than like the child he/she looks like, in which case it is not pedocrap, but apart of that, no tolerance can be given to it.

As much fun as the game is, it seems that Eiyuu x Maou has pedocrap, and therefore it can't stay here.

edited 10th Jun '12 5:15:22 PM by Sachiko