Batman General Discussion

Speaking as neuroatypical, I agree. Harvey is mentally ill.

The Joker is just colorful.

Mind you, I do think Batman is definitely on the spectrum himself.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 5th 2021 at 10:52:42 AM

Like the only villains off the top of my head that i'd say are truly mentally ill are Harvey and maybe Maxie Zeus 'IE the mobster who legit thinks he is Zeus and Batman is Hades' though like Harley it is dependent on the writer... sometimes Maxie is fully aware he is just playing into a character while others... He doesn't get why he can't hurl lightning

Harley skirts the line depending on how evil the writer makes her 'The more evil she is th more detached from reality while like White Knight harley is very clearly all there and walked out on Joker the moment he tried beating jason to death'

Clayface might qualify due to the Brain degeneration of their condition though that might be basil only

Ivy is an Eco terrorist

Penguin is a mobster who may or may not depending on how much you like Burton have physical deformities

Edward is just an insufferable genius

Crane like Joker is more and more a monster that people keep pretending has a point

Freeze just wants to save his wife

Wait what point do people say Scarecrow has?

His motivation stems primarily from sadism masquerading as intellectual curiosity.

Oh, so this is actually a subject I like to focus on a lot (Batman villains and if they are depicted as ill).

As mentioned before, yes, Basil Karlo Clayface has a condition where the longer he’s in clay form, the more degraded his brain becomes. He loses memories and the ability to tell right from wrong (just “I want this and so I will get it”), and Dr October has been helping him get treatment for that problem.

Harley is... inconsistent. Sometimes she’s depicted as solely an abuse victim who does what Joker tells her. However, its become not uncommon in the past five years or so for them to make allusions to her being schizophrenic and no longer taking medication for it. Again, not super consistent, but even that could be explained as her going on and off her meds.

Ventriloquist is also very possibly schizophrenic. Both Arnold Wesker and Peyton Riley think Scarface is talking to them, and is possessed, but that’s not too likely (especially in Peyton’s case, as she regularly blows up her dummies and then gets a new one that she still claims is alive and in love with her.)

Riddler is sometimes depicted as having a genuine compulsive disorder that makes him leave puzzles behind, although that’s very Hollywood OCD, and has nothing to do with him being a criminal.

Maxie Zeus, as mentioned, has psychosis and believes he is a deity.

Scarecrow isn’t mentally ill, but several writers (Sam Humphries springs to mind, in his Green Lanterns run) have depicted him as being an addict whose drug of choice is fear. Meaning that he commits his crimes in order to terrify himself as he hurts other people, and he’s always chasing bigger highs. Again, not terribly consistent, but it is there.

Harvey... What exactly is going on is never consistent, just that there’s usually something he’s dealing with. Whether it’s DID, OCD, psychosis, or something else, his two sides and usage of the coin are things that writers have always been trying to nail down but can never agree on.

Professor Pyg absolutely suffers from psychosis as well. That’s been really consistent.

But yes, Poison Ivy, Bane, Penguin, Punchline, Ra’s Al Ghul, Killer Moth, the Fireflies after Garfield Lynns, Mr Freeze... None of those characters are mentally ill. They’re just people who are villains for one reason or another, but Batman still wants to get them to stop and turn over a new leaf all the same.

Devil's advocate, Bruce is really just someone who needs therapy who the writers keep trying to act is some massive, impenetrable force of human willpower. Like Joker, he's a convoluted answer to crime, a man who had a really bad day and chose an extreme solution for it instead of doing what Alfred insists he do - get therapy, live his life. Bruce has even had chances to be happy in stories like Mask of the Batwoman but turns it down.

Edited by FOFD on Mar 6th 2021 at 6:04:17 AM

You could say the same about Spider-Man, or Flash, or Daredevil, or pretty much 70% of superheroes.

1) Doesn't make Batman and Joker being thematic mirrors of one another any less accurate.

2) I don't think you can really say that about 70 percent because most superhero origins aren't defined by tragedy the way Spider Man, Batman, or Daredevil are.

3) The sooner self-actualization and positive social change stop being associated with glorified vigilantism and personal obsession the better. Either that, or I want to see world leaders start wearing superhero costumes while debating oil prices and systemic issues. I want to see infuencers and Tiktok users wearing capes.

Edited by FOFD on Mar 6th 2021 at 6:21:00 AM

The funny thing being that Batman's response, "try to make the world a better place" is not actually a bad one. In more optimistic Bat stories, Batman DOES rebuild his lost family with his foster kids.

Its just it involves a lot more punching.

When it comes to super heroes, it all comes down to punching people.

I'd say that's more him making the world a better place for him (which isn't a bad thing either, so long as he isn't hurting anyone).

Yeah, most superheroes could use therapy but we all know how superhero comic writers feel about that. Fortunately, the t.v. shows are better at this.

Of course good things primarily come about out of violence, these are action stories.

Like you don't read a battle manga and not expect the problems to be resolved with awesome fight scenes.

Like yes there are technically better ways for Bruce to help Gotham than being a vigilante but like..... we wouldn't have a story otherwise.

Worth noting that Bruce is supposed to do a lot to fix Gotham in other ways, but they don't give it enough focus.

I said that Gotham City is basically a second New York because of Bruce when, without him, it would have been another Detroit.

The question is whether that's a good thing.

You saved Gotham Bruce but should it have been saved?

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 6th 2021 at 12:24:23 PM

Okay big week, that new Joker ongoing by Tynion is out this week.

So more Joker in his own monthly title with a Punchline backup written by apparently Tynion's girlfriend.

God help us all.

Its more a jim Gordon ongoing

Oh dear, that's going to create some bias.

It's like a Director casting his wife in a movie.

Over in the new Batman: Urban Legends title, it seems someone wasn't a fan of Tomasi's recent Mr. Freeze story, as Nora is killed off

Does anyone actually want Villainous Nora? Like what is the appeal?

I dunno, all the attempts to make Freeze have a motive but her fail.

But it does leave him somewhat static.

Nora as a baddie is an interesting rebuttal to the idea that Freeze has been idealizing her the entire time.

Wait, what happened in Tomasi's Freeze story?

Nora was revived in Detective Comics and by the story's end she was evil and betrayed Victor.

Not the first time that's happened either.

Huh Chip Zdarsky is penning the Red Hood story for the comic, his first Batman story even apparently.

Finally Jason has a good writer.

"What's Your Superhero Name? (Batman: Urban Legends #1)"

Its not actually his first. He did the birthday story in joker 80th anniversary special where one day every month joker would give batman a birthday gift.

Ah so he did.

Ya know its funny how Tynion has become the current Bat-architect writing not only the main Batman ongoing but also even a Joker ongoing.

Because he was apparently originally brought in to simply be a filler writer to keep the numbers going until he was replaced by John Ridley which didn't pan out due to 5G's cancellation.

For what it’s worth, Tynion did have a long run on Detective Comics from 2016 to 2018, which I think sort of primed him for this. He even said back then that he had a plan for bringing Harper Row out of retirement and becoming Bluebird again.

Which we’re now seeing happen in Joker, as she gears up to be Punchline’s main opposition.