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Discussion of religion in the context of LGBT rights is only allowed in this thread.

Discussion of religion in any other context is off topic in all of the "LGBT rights..." threads.

Attempting to bait others into bringing up religion is also not allowed.

edited 4th Oct '13 8:26:43 AM by Madrugada

Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
Nov 10th 2013 at 6:53:42 AM

While it's true that a stopped watch is right twice a day, I'd rather wear a functioning one.

Zendervai Visiting from the Hoag Galaxy from St. Catharines Relationship Status: Wishing you were here
Visiting from the Hoag Galaxy
Nov 10th 2013 at 9:13:39 AM

A stopped watch may be right twice a day...but that doesn't help you figure out exactly when it is right. Most people can't figure out that it's 10:33 just by looking around. You need some extra help to find out when it is right.

edited 10th Nov '13 9:14:06 AM by Zendervai

Nov 10th 2013 at 10:17:38 AM
Thumped: Please see The Rules . This is a warning that this post is the sort of thing that will get you suspended.
Sparkysharps Professional Nerd from Portland, OR
Professional Nerd
Nov 10th 2013 at 12:01:59 PM

The fact that we exist in the first place is a huge violation of the first law of thermodynamics

Not sure how that would be the case when the first law just says the amount of energy in a closed system doesn't change. A person isn't a closed system, and neither is the Earth.

"If there's a hole, it's a man's job to thrust into it!" — Ryoma Nagare, New Getter Robo
Elfive this one has layers from London
this one has layers
Nov 10th 2013 at 12:26:34 PM

Isn't it the second law that people usually trot out to "prove" life shouldn't exist? (Which, for the record, fails for the same reason as the first.)

I stopped worrying about strange men on the internet around the time I became one.
Zendervai Visiting from the Hoag Galaxy from St. Catharines Relationship Status: Wishing you were here
Visiting from the Hoag Galaxy
Nov 10th 2013 at 12:59:25 PM

Yeah, I've heard the "evolution can't happen because there would have to be a huge outside source of energy". There is. It's called the Sun. It's not exactly hard to find.

Madrugada MOD Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Nov 10th 2013 at 1:05:14 PM

Antiteilchen: Using the strike-out markup on rudeness and insults doesn't make them OK.

edited 10th Nov '13 1:05:44 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Ekuran Hi. from somewhere. Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Hi.
Nov 10th 2013 at 1:19:58 PM

[up][up]Rem is presumably talking about how the universe itself even exists and not specifically the life in it. At least, that's what I got from this post.

edited 10th Nov '13 1:23:16 PM by Ekuran

[Insert seemingly profound or amusing phrase here.]
Sparkysharps Professional Nerd from Portland, OR
Professional Nerd
Nov 10th 2013 at 1:55:35 PM

As much as I'd love to debate the whole "uncaused cause" issue, I sincerely doubt it has much to do with whether or not God has a thing against scissoring and anal.

Anyways, has anyone gone into the hypothesized origins of Christianity's hate-boner for LGBTQ folknote ? As much as I hate to admit going tl;dr, five hundred pages is a probably bit much for even the most attentive on this thread to remember.

"If there's a hole, it's a man's job to thrust into it!" — Ryoma Nagare, New Getter Robo
Elfive this one has layers from London
this one has layers
Nov 10th 2013 at 2:13:13 PM

That one's hilariously easy to turn on it's head. Watch: Everything that exists must have a cause -> God does not have a cause -> God does not exist.

Anyway I think it might stem from the whole "be fruitful and multiply" thing. Anything but hetero relations will impact on reproductive efficiency, and so are to be discouraged. Frankly I think it would be hilarious if Gays and Asexuals are actually becoming more common because god is trying to reduce our rampant overpopulation without nuking us again, and the Christians are unknowingly doing their best to muck it up.

I stopped worrying about strange men on the internet around the time I became one.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from a handcart heading to Hell Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
Nov 10th 2013 at 2:27:30 PM

[up][up]I think part of it was that bum sex (not homosexual relationships) was wildly practised by the Romans, who until they converted to Christianity were rather keen on persecuting Christians.

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Meklar from Milky Way Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
Nov 10th 2013 at 4:05:15 PM

Anyway I think it might stem from the whole "be fruitful and multiply" thing.
I never understood why 'be fruitful and multiply' is always interpreted as specifying an eternal process, rather than a specific finite mission that we may have already completed (7 billion is a lot).

Join my forum game!
joeyjojo Happy New Year! from South Sydney: go the bunnies!
Happy New Year!
Nov 10th 2013 at 4:10:54 PM

Quakers (maybe Shakers, I get them confused.) don't go for it. Sex is strictly forbidden even in marriage

hashtagsarestupid
Elfive this one has layers from London
this one has layers
Nov 10th 2013 at 4:11:03 PM

[up][up]I know, right? There's already way too many people, so the fewer reproduce the better.

[up]How does this sect still exist?

edited 10th Nov '13 4:11:38 PM by Elfive

I stopped worrying about strange men on the internet around the time I became one.
Zendervai Visiting from the Hoag Galaxy from St. Catharines Relationship Status: Wishing you were here
Visiting from the Hoag Galaxy
Nov 10th 2013 at 5:16:03 PM

I don't think it was the Quakers who believed that, but there was a sect that followed that belief. The last one died like 50 years ago.

Nov 10th 2013 at 5:16:19 PM

I'm a Quaker, that is patently untrue. Or at the very least, I haven't heard it in two decades, including speeches directly about sex I got when I hit puberty.

joeyjojo Happy New Year! from South Sydney: go the bunnies!
Happy New Year!
Nov 10th 2013 at 5:16:22 PM

With great difficulty

From the other wiki.

Although there were 6,000 believers at the peak of the Shaker movement, there were only 12 Shaker communities left by 1920.[58] In the United States, there was one remaining active Shaker community, at Sabbathday Lake, Maine, which as of 2012 has only three members: Sister June Carpenter, Brother Arnold Hadd, and Sister Frances Carr.[8][59][60]

edited 10th Nov '13 5:16:35 PM by joeyjojo

hashtagsarestupid
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest
NOT THE BEES
Nov 10th 2013 at 5:19:08 PM

That one's hilariously easy to turn on it's head. Watch: Everything that exists must have a cause -> God does not have a cause -> God does not exist.

Qualify step one.

Anyway, Sparky's right. It's rather off topic.

I think part of it was that bum sex (not homosexual relationships) was wildly practised by the Romans, who until they converted to Christianity were rather keen on persecuting Christians.

The other part of it was that bum sex (not homosexual relationships) was wildly practised by most of the surrounding tribes throughout the Old Testament for most of the same reasons as the Romans — primarily war rape, pederasty, or pagan worship.

edited 10th Nov '13 5:20:03 PM by Pykrete

Sparkysharps Professional Nerd from Portland, OR
Professional Nerd
Nov 10th 2013 at 5:47:10 PM

In other words, Judaism has the Freudian Excuse: "I got my ass kicked as a kid by dudes who boned dudes (with or without their consent), so I will dedicate an inordinate amount of my time trying to take revenge on gay people for as long as I live."

Anyways, the "No sex ever" thing was Shakers. Quakers are the folk I wish most Christians were actually like.

edited 10th Nov '13 5:51:43 PM by Sparkysharps

"If there's a hole, it's a man's job to thrust into it!" — Ryoma Nagare, New Getter Robo
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest
NOT THE BEES
Nov 10th 2013 at 5:55:03 PM

To be fair, most branches of modern Judaism accept homosexual relationships now that sexual orientation is known as a thing. For a good several centuries, sexual abuse and pagan worship was the chief (visible) use of anal sex, and was most often done by people that would otherwise be considered straight.

Actually, it's doubtful anyone was ever convicted under that law anyway. Jewish law had a pretty stringent set of requirements to do that that involved at least two outside parties a) catching them in the act and b) awkwardly standing there mid-coitus delivering warnings. While I'm certain mob rule did as mob rule does, legally speaking it's unlikely it ever went past "wat r u doing. stahp."

edited 10th Nov '13 5:57:45 PM by Pykrete

Zendervai Visiting from the Hoag Galaxy from St. Catharines Relationship Status: Wishing you were here
Visiting from the Hoag Galaxy
Nov 10th 2013 at 6:07:42 PM

Yeah, that legal process is actually why the thing with the prostitute where Jesus said "He who is without sin may cast the first stone" (paraphrasing) is really suspicious. The Pharisees never brought the guy out. It wasn't legal, even by the laws that they professed to follow.

But yeah, under Jewish law, people who were careful probably wouldn't get into trouble.

ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Nov 10th 2013 at 6:09:01 PM

[up][up] Yes, Jewish law concerning things like bad sexual conduct required very very stringent guidelines requiring lots of 'no stahp guys don't do that'. I mean in conservative branches that have adopted gay marriage and still follow the no bumsex law, they're not going to march into your bedroom and make sure. That would just be ridiculous.

edited 10th Nov '13 6:09:21 PM by ohsointocats

joeyjojo Happy New Year! from South Sydney: go the bunnies!
Happy New Year!
Nov 10th 2013 at 6:23:57 PM

I actually think that has historic basis

hashtagsarestupid
ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Nov 10th 2013 at 6:29:37 PM

What, a rabbi watching gay couples they've married to make sure they only do approved forms of sex?

Jhimmibhob from Where the tea is sweet, and the cornbread ain't Relationship Status: My own grandpa
Nov 10th 2013 at 7:05:42 PM

[up]Rabbi's internal monologue: "First mohel certification, now this ... exactly why didn't I go into IT again?"

"She was the kind of dame they write similes about." —Pterodactyl Jones

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