LGBTQ+ Rights and Religion

While it's true that a stopped watch is right twice a day, I'd rather wear a functioning one.

A stopped watch may be right twice a day...but that doesn't help you figure out exactly when it is right. Most people can't figure out that it's 10:33 just by looking around. You need some extra help to find out when it is right.

edited 10th Nov '13 9:14:06 AM by Zendervai

Not Three Laws compliant.

Not sure how that would be the case when the first law just says the amount of energy in a closed system doesn't change. A person isn't a closed system, and neither is the Earth.

"If there's a hole, it's a man's job to thrust into it!" — Ryoma Nagare, New Getter Robo

Isn't it the second law that people usually trot out to "prove" life shouldn't exist? (Which, for the record, fails for the same reason as the first.)

Yeah, I've heard the "evolution can't happen because there would have to be a huge outside source of energy". There is. It's called the Sun. It's not exactly hard to find.

Not Three Laws compliant.

Rem is presumably talking about how the universe itself even exists and not specifically the life in it. At least, that's what I got from this post.

edited 10th Nov '13 1:23:16 PM by Ekuran

As much as I'd love to debate the whole "uncaused cause" issue, I sincerely doubt it has much to do with whether or not God has a thing against scissoring and anal.

Anyways, has anyone gone into the hypothesized origins of Christianity's hate-boner for LGBTQ folk^note A combo of translation issues, Jewish people defining their ingroup in contrast to more gender-bending religious cults, Philo's frothing hatred of girly men, and Paul Running the Asylum? As much as I hate to admit going tl;dr, five hundred pages is a probably bit much for even the most attentive on this thread to remember.

"If there's a hole, it's a man's job to thrust into it!" — Ryoma Nagare, New Getter Robo

That one's hilariously easy to turn on it's head. Watch: Everything that exists must have a cause -> God does not have a cause -> God does not exist.

Anyway I think it might stem from the whole "be fruitful and multiply" thing. Anything but hetero relations will impact on reproductive efficiency, and so are to be discouraged. Frankly I think it would be hilarious if Gays and Asexuals are actually becoming more common because god is trying to reduce our rampant overpopulation without nuking us again, and the Christians are unknowingly doing their best to muck it up.

I think part of it was that bum sex (not homosexual relationships) was wildly practised by the Romans, who until they converted to Christianity were rather keen on persecuting Christians.

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran

I never understood why 'be fruitful and multiply' is always interpreted as specifying an eternal process, rather than a specific finite mission that we may have already completed (7 billion is a lot).

Join my forum game!

Quakers (maybe Shakers, I get them confused.) don't go for it. Sex is strictly forbidden even in marriage

hashtagsarestupid

I know, right? There's already way too many people, so the fewer reproduce the better.

How does this sect still exist?

edited 10th Nov '13 4:11:38 PM by Elfive

I don't think it was the Quakers who believed that, but there was a sect that followed that belief. The last one died like 50 years ago.

Not Three Laws compliant.

I'm a Quaker, that is patently untrue. Or at the very least, I haven't heard it in two decades, including speeches directly about sex I got when I hit puberty.

With great difficulty

From the other wiki.

edited 10th Nov '13 5:16:35 PM by joeyjojo

hashtagsarestupid

Qualify step one.

Anyway, Sparky's right. It's rather off topic.

The other part of it was that bum sex (not homosexual relationships) was wildly practised by most of the surrounding tribes throughout the Old Testament for most of the same reasons as the Romans — primarily war rape, pederasty, or pagan worship.

edited 10th Nov '13 5:20:03 PM by Pykrete

In other words, Judaism has the Freudian Excuse: "I got my ass kicked as a kid by dudes who boned dudes (with or without their consent), so I will dedicate an inordinate amount of my time trying to take revenge on gay people for as long as I live."

Anyways, the "No sex ever" thing was Shakers. Quakers are the folk I wish most Christians were actually like.

edited 10th Nov '13 5:51:43 PM by Sparkysharps

"If there's a hole, it's a man's job to thrust into it!" — Ryoma Nagare, New Getter Robo

To be fair, most branches of modern Judaism accept homosexual relationships now that sexual orientation is known as a thing. For a good several centuries, sexual abuse and pagan worship was the chief (visible) use of anal sex, and was most often done by people that would otherwise be considered straight.

Actually, it's doubtful anyone was ever convicted under that law anyway. Jewish law had a pretty stringent set of requirements to do that that involved at least two outside parties a) catching them in the act and b) awkwardly standing there mid-coitus delivering warnings. While I'm certain mob rule did as mob rule does, legally speaking it's unlikely it ever went past "wat r u doing. stahp."

edited 10th Nov '13 5:57:45 PM by Pykrete

Yeah, that legal process is actually why the thing with the prostitute where Jesus said "He who is without sin may cast the first stone" (paraphrasing) is really suspicious. The Pharisees never brought the guy out. It wasn't legal, even by the laws that they professed to follow.

But yeah, under Jewish law, people who were careful probably wouldn't get into trouble.

Not Three Laws compliant.

Yes, Jewish law concerning things like bad sexual conduct required very very stringent guidelines requiring lots of 'no stahp guys don't do that'. I mean in conservative branches that have adopted gay marriage and still follow the no bumsex law, they're not going to march into your bedroom and make sure. That would just be ridiculous.

edited 10th Nov '13 6:09:21 PM by ohsointocats

I actually think that has historic basis

hashtagsarestupid

What, a rabbi watching gay couples they've married to make sure they only do approved forms of sex?

Rabbi's internal monologue: "First mohel certification, now this ... exactly why didn't I go into IT again?"

"She was the kind of dame they write similes about." —Pterodactyl Jones