Manga/Dragon Ball

I think it might be because Freeza consciously clings to his evilness; like they said, its not that he can't repent, but that he's actively refusing to repent.

Yeah. Buu is a primordial force of nature that was then forged into a weapon.

Freeza is evil because he wants to be. He's so evil that when given a choice between repenting and being tortured in hell until he stops, he actively chooses to keep being evil. He knows what he is, he likes it, and he's gonna keep doing it no matter what.

Basically, if you're a stubborn smart alec, you might come up with excuses why you don't have to repent. Nappa might hear about the existence of a Super Saiyan cleaning Frieza's clock and repent to that, but Raditz would be all "but, I just wanted my father not to think I was a waste! And with my planet gone, where else was I supposed to go? Stay on Earth and teach Kakarot's brat about how to control Oozaru or something?!" "Uh... yeah."

I won't go the full Masako X on this one (Here's my wife Launch and our daughter and two forgettable sons. And over there's the farm I keep with brother.), but just the irony of Beerus trying to convince Vegeta that the Saiyan's sins aren't his problem, meanwhile they're definitely Raditz's problem, or Bardock's.

I swear I've seen these exact same three Posts in this topic from you three days ago.

The subject of what makes a character evil has come up before, and it seemed the consensus among most was that people who could theoretically change but choose to be evil are more evil than characters made to be evil like Cell and Buu.

Eh, Cell's imperative was just absorbing the cyborgs, and people he came across with. The sadism, and everything he did after completing his body, were all his choice.

Speaking of the new villain, I really hope he doesn't become as strong as Golden Frieza, just making a wish.

Of course not. He'd become stronger.

Seriously, magic wish granting dragons are what the franchise is named after. The fact that we follow a bunch of morons who use them to solve the issues caused by the problems they try to punch rather than solve with magic makes us unable to see them as anything but resurrection devices.

Remember when Bulma suggested using them to deal with the androids before they were a problem, and not only the Saiyans, but Piccolo and Tenshinhan wanted to have a punch at them rather than avoiding the issue?

Well, we got somebody pragmatic enough. We did see Zamasu putting immortality to good work.

With the strongest version of the Dragon Balls mind you.

Its unlikely this dragon can just make Granola the strongest warrior in the universe without a few extra steps

Edited by fasoman1996 on Feb 24th 2021 at 7:47:53 PM

I don't think it matters which Balls you use when wishing for immortality. Immortality is immortality.

Yeah. Though we've only seen one dude succeed at it in canon, that being Zamasu.

But if we also count Garlic Jr. then once you're immortal, you're pretty much set unless you happen to randomly earn Zeno's ire enough that he nukes an entire universe to kill you.

.....Can Beerus Hakai an immortal? It's never really been made clear if he can or not.

He can in Fighterz.

He should be able, but the entire Zamasu arc is weird in terms of consistency (and even worse in the anime)

In the manga, he says that he can't.

But Zeno can. Is that technically Hakai?

No. Zen'o did not Hakai Zamasu; he erased reality itself from existence. This is a bit above and beyond Hakai.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Feb 24th 2021 at 2:05:31 AM

Nope, that's his own unique power.

Unless the Planet Cereal Dragon is some superdragon we haven't met yet, Granola's wish probably won't go through (because it would require said dragon to be stronger than X characters to make him the most powerful).

Which I presume is why the chapter didn't actually show his wish be granted, and why the dragon itself makes sure to tell Granola (and remind the audience) that it can only grant wishes within the confines of its ability when it's summoned - even though that sort of thing hasn't been brought up for ages.

Essentially, Granola making the wish is a cliffhanger. My guess is, immediately at the start of the next chapter the dragon will go "I cannot grant that wish, try another" fake-out style, and the story of Granola will go in a different direction. Not only will this mean the plot doesn't skip Granolah's path to power or whatever, but the chapter also sets up a "Heeters attack Cereal" plot and as much as I expect them to be starter villains for this arc it wouldn't do for them to be completely outmatched so soon.

I think the only time the series has ever cheated that rule was when Porunga restored Goku's strength at the end of the Buu Saga, and even that was less "add all this power to me until I'm strong enough" and more "heal me / return my health" (similar to Piccolo's, come to think).

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 24th 2021 at 2:22:08 AM

Wasn't the idea of using the dragon to deal with enemies raised in the saiyan saga?

I swear I remember Bulma or someone wishing for Shenron to kill Nappa and Vegeta, and Sheron replying that he can't effect beings who are stronger than his creator, without their consent. So for Shenron to kill the two saiyans, they would've had to consent to being killed.

Something similar happened after defeating Frieza on Namek, when they tried to have Shenron teleport Goku back to Earth. Goku didn't want to come, and Goku was stronger than Kami, so there was nothing Shenron could do about it.

Edited by PhoenixAct on Feb 24th 2021 at 10:41:03 AM

My prediction is that this Dragon will refer him to Shenron, who will refer him to Porunga, who will refer him to Zalama. Each dragon will make him stronger, though, just not as strong as he wants. Something like this:

• Cereal Dragon: Makes Granola as strong as SS1 Goku.

• Shenron: Makes Granola as strong as SSG.

• Porunga: Makes Granola as strong as PSSB.

• Zalama: Makes Granola as strong as Whis.

You are correct sir, though it was actually Oolong who tried to do that. They were trying to wish Goku back in fact. Notably, that was the first appearance of that rule (and it's been pointed out they could have wished away the Saiyan's space pods, which could not resist, but hindsights a bitch).

Oddly, enough, Goku had to tell them he objected (he interrupted the telepathic conversation between Guru and King Kai to ask to be left behind) which he shouldn't have needed to do since Porunga would not have been able to wish Goku away anyway since Goku was stronger.

I like how Goku is psychic whenever he needs to be

Like, that's the best time to be psychic!

Otherwise, you'd be hearing every dirty, pointless thought from every asshole in ear(?) shot.

Only if you don’t know how to turn down the gain on the receiver, obviously

Some psychics just don’t know tf they’re doing

Might be funny if the result of the wish is "I can make you the strongest, but it wears off the second old man Monait dies."

@Melon Did I mention that Beerus's attitude pissed me off?

Edited by Sailor11sedna on Feb 24th 2021 at 8:28:35 AM