Manga/Dragon Ball

Apparently, Dragon Bal Z Kakarot, because it has input from Toriyama in terms of fleshing out Z via side content and some new scenes, has made a retcon that is confusing as hell to a lot of people.

Apparently, Piccolo Destroying the moon is actually casting an illusion on it instead to make it seem like its destroyed, but its merely covered up so that there no more Blutz Waves hitting earth. It also apparently is meant to explain why Kami didn't recreate the moon again like he did before the 23rd World Torunament.

...Thats a thing now. And no, its not a Dub thing, its in the Japanese text, too. On the other hand, it fits Dragon Ball's Wacky antics. On the other hand, the Power scaling part of the community is in a tizzy over it, since its been used as a baseline for later feats in the series for years, now.

Edited by Demongodofchaos2 on Jan 17th 2020 at 10:32:47 AM

That's dumb, Roshi already blew up the moon before

Edited by Saiga on Jan 18th 2020 at 1:35:17 AM

Most don't consider it because it was when the Series was a still more of a Gag Manga then anything else, and there being no indication anyone far stronger then him could out put anything similar until Z, unless Buff Roshi is much stronger then most remember him.

Yeah. That would have made more sense for Roshi to pull than Piccolo.

Then again, destroying the moon should have a lot of environmental affects on the earth, so I guess this deals with that....but that also means whatever Piccolo did persisted after his death since Vegeta had to create that fake moon to transform...

....man, why not leave things as is? Why ya gotta make things so complicated?

Yeah no, that's dumb.

Speaking of dumb things from Kakarot, apparently (final boss spoilers, if you really care about that) Goku can stop time now. No. Really. Apparently the whole final boss fight against Kid Buu takes place in stopped time while Goku prepares to fire the Spirit Bomb.

He doesn't fight like that until...Resurrection F, so yes he could be.

Also since the moon was actually destroyed, maybe that's why it's NEVER night time in the Manga's second half.

Edited by randomness4 on Jan 17th 2020 at 8:11:43 AM

Game theory: GOKU IS HIT?

Daiguipgooghjjgjuuighggiuhg-(slaps myself) What?!

Goku has The World/Quick Silver?

Edited by Fedetropes on Jan 17th 2020 at 1:18:11 PM

The hell are they doing?

x3: So this is the power of Ultra Instinct...◊

Edited by XMenMutant22 on Jan 17th 2020 at 11:24:50 AM

And after that, Goku teleports back to fire the Spirit Bomb and acts like nothing happened.

The whole sequence is bizarre and seems like they just really didn't want to end on Vegeta vs. Kid Buu as the final boss.

I wouldn't take it too seriously, it's probably just so Goku can get the last fight against Kid Buu before the Spirit Bomb kills him.

Hell after the fight the story returns to normal.

Edited by Fedetropes on Jan 17th 2020 at 1:26:26 PM

I don't see why it would've mattered...you'd be playing as Kakarot for most of the fight anyway.

Or should be, if it's story accurate...since Veggie "tags out" twice after 2 short battles.

Edited by randomness4 on Jan 17th 2020 at 8:39:35 AM

People dismissing Roshi blowing up the moon as just a funny gag that's not meant to be taken literally either haven't read the early manga/watched the first anime, or just don't remember it well.

Roshi blowing up the moon had tangible consequences in the plot. It didn't just reverse Goku's Oozaru transformation. In the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai, one of the contestants was a reverse werewolf seeking revenge on Roshi for trapping him in his bestial form.

Blowing up the moon is silly. Yes. The early manga is silly. But it's still a canon depiction of Roshi's strength, with effects in the moment and further consequences later in the story. People just look for reasons to dismiss it out-of-hand, 'cause the Versus community really hates the idea of Dragon Ball characters being as powerful as they're canonically meant to be.

Versus debaters loathe Dragon Ball. They jump on any chance they get to make claims like "Majin Buu is the baseline for planet-busting; no one weaker than Buu can planet-bust!" Which is ironic, because Versus debaters also try to narrow every possible fight down to which character has a higher Power Level and is therefore untouchable by the other character's attacks.

1. Not every character from every piece of media ever made is Dragon Ball.
2. But Dragon Ball is Dragon Ball.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 18th 2020 at 5:57:22 AM

The weird thing, for me, is that Roshi's feat is consistent with Piccolo's when you factor in multipliers. Piccolo's Power Level at the time is 329 (weighted, but slightly stronger than when he fought Raditz), while Roshi's Power Level is 139. Roshi may have been either stronger or weaker during the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai, it's hard to say. Goku's Kamehameha against Raditz had a 2.22x multiplier, which when applied to Roshi would be 308.

That alone puts Roshi's Kamehameha within the same ballpark as a casual blast from Piccolo, even without factoring in everything else, like Roshi's Buff form probably being its own multiplier or that Roshi's Kamehameha probably had a greater multiplier than Goku's given that Goku's was barely charged and Roshi was putting all of his remaining ki into that blast.

You know, remembering how low their Power Levels were compared to Vegeta, it dawns on me that the top number for planet busting might be much lower than when Vegeta tried to destroy the earth.

Then again Writers Cannot Do Math, so Toriyama might not have considered how long it would take for a beam to travel through space and reach the moon.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Jan 18th 2020 at 6:16:46 AM

Wait i got Dragon ball threads mixed. My bad.

Member filler Geets destroying a planet?

Edited by fasoman1996 on Jan 18th 2020 at 10:25:14 AM

From what I heard it's cause City busting was still seen as impressive by the King Piccolo arc and he got winded from a City level blast that would have wiped Goku out.

I don't agree with it though.

So the Buu saga is kinda awkward cause Toriyama tried to have a crack at Gohan as the MC, regretted it and switched it to Goku midway through the arc, there's been a billion rewrites making Gohan the MC the whole Buu saga and beyond, you know the drill...

But how would yo do a rewrite that makes it clear Goku will be the MC of the Buu saga from the get go? (To change things a bit).

Not write the Cell saga.

Related to that, this is a neat article I found about how while we all know the Buu saga is a bit of a mess, it would have been pretty difficult to get right from the get-go.

The Buu arc is a mess but I am not even Toriyama would make it work. Gohan doesn't work as a protagonist for something like Dragon Ball and the supernatural stuff would feel off.

I'd also just not write the Android Saga the way it ended.

I disagree with that. Boo arc would have worked fine with Gohan just winning at the end, very little would have had to have changed for this. It's not hard to see that the storyline just falls apart in the latter half, and you can always... not do that.

Regardless, I don't think Gohan's straightforwardness would be bad for the story. Like... Goku's own personality isn't that important to Dragon Ball. That blog points out the lack of 'normal' traits Goku has, but that isn't really a benefit for the story? That is just less things than you can make Goku care about, and I think it really shows in something like Super how one-track Goku can be if you only focus on his unusual traits.

edit: Honestly that blog doesn't really make any arguments or expand on its points much.

Edited by Saiga on Jan 19th 2020 at 2:13:14 AM