German Politics Thread

Note that they are saying he has "no ties" and think it's not a "political crime". That still leaves the possibility he's an unaffiliated AFD supporter and that his deed was politically biased as a consequence.

I don't follow the logic there...just because he wasn't directly connected to any group if doesn't mean that his motivation wasn't political which makes it a political crime in my book.

Let's be honest here, the guy most likely got radicalized over the internet. We have to stop ignoring this problem and play down the consequences of it.

Edited by Swanpride on Jan 8th 2019 at 3:54:59 AM

Delusions seldom spring forth from virgin snow, unconnected to the outside world.

Even Hinckley had a media-driven, stalkerish delusion of impressing Jodie Foster by attempting to assassinate Ronald Regean. No internet was required for an apparently political act on the surface... Which really wasn't.

Dreaming up a terrorist-style attack for whatever other reason needs only access to the news and the decision not to try out for a bog-standard 90s-style school shooting/ stabbing, instead. :/

Terrorist? It's the new Columbine.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Jan 8th 2019 at 12:31:33 PM

Considering that people get hacked quite literally all the time this is barely a drop in the ocean. Hackers attacking the establishment is so regular, it borders on a cliche.

So remember the Af D politician which got attacked? Yeah, looks like Mr "I don't want to overdramatize" actually lied about the details of the attack.

To clarify, he claimed that someone went with a bat or similar after him and beat him while he was on the ground.

In reality he got pushed and the injuries he got are from falling down.

Which doesn't make it okay, mind you, but there is a world of difference between "someone tried to beat me to dead and only stopped from two plumbers intervened" and "someone pushed me from behind and him and his friends run away the second they realized what they had done".

Wait, I thought his compatriots claimed that and not he himself? From what I recall reading, he said that he couldn't quite remember what happened (and now came out to say that it might have been a robbery and not a political attack).

he made up some BS about the people who found him telling him the story.

And how he just happened to walk past a Left Demo beforehand.

Alright, apparently I missed that part. I knew Gauland and Weidel were trying to score political points with this, but I didn't know the guy himself first claimed that as well.

German plans (or the lack thereof) in case of a no-Deal Brexit.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46798281

Eh, typical FDP. I wouldn't put too much stock in what they say.

Realistically, what can Germany do what the EU hasn't done already? Send out a second set of preparedness notices? They have put together a plan for the UK citizens in Germany which is reasonable, they have tabled a law which will allow them to stay employed by the state, they have made preparations to stock up customs if necessary...anything else is frankly not in their hands. And if you pay attention towards the end of the article, the business leaders don't blame the German government for the current situation. The trouble will be created by the UK, and there is little Germany can do about it.

And we got another AfD splinter

It's called "Emergence of German Patriots" and it's symbol is a blue cornflower, the sign of the Austrian Nazis.

Well, given that this is only going to split Af D votes among the brown end...*shrug*

And to the FDP is in the Opposition. They'd always find some line to critique the government.

Edited by 3of4 on Jan 11th 2019 at 10:39:16 AM

Enough to put at least one of them under the 5% threshold?

Not in East Germany, but it may spike their attempts to go big. Especially in that shitbrown hellhole that is Saxony.

I mean, I doubt Pogge and Petry get 5%, but if they get 2% each, that's 4% possibly missing from the Af D.

And they quite possibly despise each other more than SPD and Left under Schröder and Lafontaine, soo...

But if Petrys Blue Party can successfully steal the middle class 'Bürgerlichen' and Pogge's bunch their Neonazi fringe then the Af D has issues on both wings.

Confusion to the enemy, is what I'm saying.

Edited by 3of4 on Jan 11th 2019 at 10:50:16 AM

Yeah, the more they split, the better. Every little group means less votes for the Af D.

And the FDP goes on my last nerve currently. As an opposition they do a terrible job because they are so out on criticising every little bit the government does, nobody is listen to them anymore, because it is difficult to see when they have an actual point and when they are just looking for something to nitpick. Therefore I am now only listening when the FDP and the Greens both sound the alarm.

AdD splitting again? If only there was a German word to describe what I'm feeling right now...

I think it rhymes on "Maden Zeuge".

So that Af Der which got attacked? Apparently he's being investigated for embezzlement since December. His parliamentary immunity got already lifted.

😐

I do admire the fact that it was Germany who gave us the word Schadenfreude. Given what's happening to the AfD, that word is perfectly appropriate for my viewpoint towards them.

@3of4 So why is Saxony so bad? Apart from being a hotbed of AfD support that is.

EDIT: Just noted that it was in the so-called DDR from the Useful Notes page for Germany. That answers some of the questions, but not why it's still a bad place.

Edited by TechPriest90 on Jan 11th 2019 at 6:49:22 AM

I think it is partly because the right wing paid extra attention to Saxony. You need to look up what actually is in Saxony. There is Dresden, which is naturally famous for its destruction in WWII, and there is Chemnitz and Leipzig, both cities which were important during the GDR times.

But it might also be exactly because Saxony was historically the opposite of right wing. Hitler never got a majority in Saxony, the state used to be as left-wing as it gets, a cultural centre of Germany. And then Hitler came and then the GDR came, and the "intellectual elite" so to speak was driven away - to a degree. One should never forget that it was also Leipzig which was largely a driver behind Reunification.

And I guess this might be part of the problem. I mean, Leipzig won its battle against the Af D, but the other cities didn't. But you can also consider Leipzig one of the winners of reunification while the rest of the region isn't necessarily. And frankly - this has to hurt. Saxony is a "Freistaat" (free state) like Bavaria for a reason. Historically it was one of the most important states in Germany. And now it is one of the most unimportant.

There is also a considerable percentage of people with Russian heritage living in Saxony who read Russia Today.

Basically there are a lot of factors coming together. But I am actually not sure if the people in Saxony are really that much more racist, or if the problem is more systemic. It is certainly interesting that the whole state swung from being extremely left-wing to being extremely right wing. But then, Saxony was always kind of extreme.....

Well speaking as a Saxon, this question has multiple answers, depending where you are from.

As Swanpride already said, thanks to the Nazis and then the GDR a lot of Saxony's former intellectuals left the state either for the West or other parts of the World. Then the Sovjets and later the SED (GDR's ruling party) tried to fashion the state into a heavy industry and "worker" paradise. This meant dismantling many of the cultural and intellectual centres and truning them into production hives. Chemnitz for example was first re-named into Karl-Marx Stadt (and no, Karl Marx has no connection to the city) and then rebuild into a centre of chemical and heavy industry. Same was for other parts of the state (in Leipzig they blew up one of our churches, for example).

Then the Re-Unification happened and it got worse. The industry basically collpased as the companies either folded into themselves or left for better location, leaving Chemnitz more or less barren. Dresden, already a hotbed for WW 2-apologist, got worse. Only city that did well was Leipzig, because of its University and being near a central roadnetwork, as well as an airport. Meaning most of the surviving industry moved to us.

So, while Leipzig got reborn, the rest of the state kinda just deteriorated. Thanks to this development most of Saxony is rural country now, with the three main cities (Leipzig, Dresden, Chemnitz) not able to balance that out. If you look at the former GDR-states, you will notice that all of them are less developed and ubranized than other parts of the country. So, it is a common theme.

Lastly, the GDR never really adressed the nationalistic past of its german population. They got of rid of the Nazis, yes. But they never dealt with the cultural education. The offical doctrine was "We have not connection to the Third Reich and are therefore no longer responsible for what happened back then!" So, while the West in the seventies and eighties adressed and worked through its past, that never happened in the East, leaving lingering right-wing sentiment to fester and develop into the hard-conservative/right-radical ideology you see now affecting the region.

Cities are usually exempt from it. It is the rural regions that cause mos of the trouble and the East is more rural than the rest of the country, if you remember.

That does not mean that Neo-Nazis are running around on the street or that everyone in Saxony is a racist, or so. Keep in mind that this so-called "Stronghold" of the AFD still has the party as a opposition-party. I want to point that out, because people are quick to dismiss Saxony as a racist hinterland that cannot be salvaged. Yes, people are more prone to conservative/right-wing ideology here. But there are not highly racist and I would compare them more with the average american state than anything else.

The main-issue is two-fold: The perception of Saxony as Right-Wing and therefore a reinforcement of the perception. If everybody sees your home as racist, that gives more attention to the racists and therefore they are able to make themselves heard and punch above their weight, politically speaking. Second, Dresden's inability to deal with the underlying problems causing this radicalization and tendency to just live in their own bubble, supporting the three main-cities and ignoring everything else in the state.

Well, I have the slight hope that Chemnitz was a wake-up call for Saxony, too.

While I cant said anything in experience about germany, I would remark that east germany have a hard line comunist left which is very conservative(something I see US troper tend to miss), so If I have to guess one the commies get out, the conservative and somewhat authoritarian mindset remain there, so eventually something else fill the void.

Sure, that is kind of the problem in the whole GDR. But Saxony is sticking out even within the GDR, and I guess this is related to its quite unique history.

Given that everyone's favorite Heute S How Punching Bag Höcke is seriously considering himself a Minister President Candidate for Saxony I'd not hold my breath Swan.

Or that I'm pretty convinced that Saxony's CDU will form a coalition with the AFD if the percentages play out.

It is entirely possible that we end up in Saxony with a majority for the two parties at the fringes of the political spectrum. This is deeply concerning at the very least.