The Constructive Criticism Thread

You know what? I'm gonna be more concrete with the dialogue. Here are some lines from the script and the reason they could use improvement.

"I do not want to talk too much." Realistically, she would use a contraction here and say "I don't want to talk too much". In spoken dialogue, always, always use contractions, unless there's a specific reason not to.

"...this is the only thing of assistance that may help you in the matter." Most people, especially people who aren't adults yet, would just say "the only thing that might help you."

"...by a sadistic male." In general, people say "man," not "male".

"I felt disgusted, speechless and unable to comprehend the true depths of depravity." This is how an author might write the narration in a novel, but it's not really how people talk to each other (especially teens). Instead of saying she's "unable to comprehend the true depths of depravity," somebody like Santhy would probably just say "I couldn't understand how somebody could do something like that."

"Through his eyes, I saw the scars which marred your elder sister's body." Again, this is how a novelist writes, but not really how a teen talks. More likely, she'd just say "I saw Nancy's scars." Or, if she's trying to avoid the name Nancy, she'd say "I saw your sister's scars". No need to always use "elder".

"I shall try to help in the limitations of my gift. But we need to do it fast, as I cannot predict when I will awaken." This kind of language is what you might use in academic writing, like a doctoral thesis, but not when a teen's talking to her friend. Santhy would be much more likely to just say "I'll do my best to help. But we gotta do it fast. I don't know when I'll wake up."

"Other than that, what markings did you find on the rag?" This is another example of how a character somehow knows what she's meant to be asking about, in order to move the plot forward. More realistically, Santhy wouldn't know that there are markings to ask about.

"As she consumes..." This isn't dialogue, true, but it's what I'm talking about. Don't say "consumes", say "eats".

Some general advice:

• In dialogue, what's important isn't that people talk with beautiful prose. What matters is that they talk like actual people talk.
• In fiction, people always use contractions when they talk, unless the author has a specific reason otherwise. Characters who don't use contractions are usually very formal people (like lawyers or nobility), or foreigners who speak English as a second language.
• The characters don't know that they're in a story, so make sure that they don't talk and act as if they know what the plot needs them to say and do.
• Always use the simplest phrasing that works. Don't write "I am unaware of her whereabouts" if it'll do just as nicely to say "I don't know where she is".

Edited by MichaelKatsuro on Jul 7th 2022 at 8:01:52 AM

I second that advice.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

In regards to dialogues, a rule of thumb would be this: "People are lazy when they talk, especially towards others."

I've never seen anyone say more than two sentences unless they really have to do it. And most people only settle for half a sentence or even a single word when responding to someone.

That is the real way of talking, just saying...

Keep it simple or basic, except for certain occasions such as going on a mad rant or something...

Actually, I think that at this point it's best if I ask: What's your reason for using the kind of formal dialogue that you usually go with?

Edited by MichaelKatsuro on Jul 7th 2022 at 12:34:00 PM

Alright, so the waiting list is open to anyone who wishes to submit their work. No waiting, ladies and gentlemen.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

Before I do that, I would like to make sure that this is the correct place where I can post something to have it properly critiqued. Any form of it would help greatly.

Yep, this is the place!

Alright then, that's exactly what I'll do! This is a fanfic, it'll be based on Beastars. It's just the prologue, but I want it to be a good hook that leads into chapter 1 (that I'll be writing once night falls, I'm more in zone that way.)

Point being, I want honest feedback, on what I did right, what I did wrong, what can be added, what doesn't need to be. Those kinds of things. anyway, here's the prologue:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Beastars

"Angel Feathers"

Prologue

The sounds of sizzling fryers hissed about pathway as the bustling clamor of carnivores, various of size and species, would either stop at these stands to either make purchases or sample selections of the displays of meat. Didn't matter where anyone walked, they were either on racks, behind glass or servers walking about to paying patrons, or that day's special at a stand.

It was the typical business operation that simple Tuesday night for The Black Market.

"That'll be 1000 yen, sir" said the stand-vendor, a plastic bag in hand. In response, a somewhat slender leopard complied, pulling out the necessary bill and handing it over, completing the transaction once he was handed when the vendor did the same. "Thank you for your purchase. I look forward to your next visit."

"Eh, you know me, Mac. You're my number one go to for the goods!" said the man, bouncing the bag in elation.

"Had to go through hoops for that order, but I did it. Just make sure you and Miyako savor it."

"Oh, you know we will, man. Thanks a bunch. I'mma head on out, got stuck with the morning shift."

"A'ight, Ringo. Take care. Tell Mi-chan I said hello."

Upon conclusion, the leopard waved and continued on down the lane of the Black Market, satisfied with what he had just bought and eager to get back home and savor his meal, taking care to avoid bumping into anyone. Reaching into his pocket and pulling out his cell, Ringo would go back and forth via texts with his partner. With a smile on his face and bounce in his step, he was so enraptured with the pleasant conversation, that the sudden onset of being plunged in darkness, the only immediate source of light was his phone.

The noisy convivial commotion of the Black Market was now replaced with an eerily pallid silencing.

Nothing made a sound, not even the common sounds of crickets he was used to. It was only the leopard, himself. Startled, Ringo looked up and around, seeing the walls of stone and steel fixtures clad in ever-reaching shadows. In the distance, the edges of dim light from the city peaked over the raised horizon.

"The fuck... did I take a wrong turn?" was Ringo's questioned as he looked around, his question met with that same stilled silence. Looking around, thanks to his natural feline trait for seeing in the dark.

"Hello? Anyone there?" Ringo, in spite of his better judgment, called out, only to be met with the same answer.

"Hello?!!"

Again, nothing.

"What the hell is going on? I was just at the Market... now..."

Upon a dawning realization and shaking his head, Ringo began to walk, figuring the sooner he got home, the better, before those creepy questions started pouring into his mind. With a quick text to his partner, he placed his phone back and started walking, unsettled by how crisp the sound of the gravel was beneath his soles and the weighted plastic bag that swung with each step.

The more he continued to walk, the more his botheration grew, going from simple, yet paced steps to ones that were now hurried. His grip on the back tightening as he kept moving and his ears now sideslipping, as if to keep an ear out. He kept his eyes forward, heading in the direction of the city lights in the distance, but seems that no matter how much he progressed, the lights never got any closer and the shadows kept stretching on before him.

'This doesn't fucking make any sense!' Ringo discerned the situation. He was used to walking in the dark, be it at night or at home, so that was no problem.

But this kind of darkness, he didn't know how or why, it just felt... wrong. That creeping sensation grew more and more, Like he could be snatched up at any time and there would be nothing he could do to stop it from-

'Get a grip, Ringo! You're a carnivore, dammit!' the leopard mentally chastising himself, roughly shaking his head. 'You're not some pathetic little herbivore, you're one of the Apex, for Rex's sake! Stop acting like a pathetic little kitten and make use of those of what you got.'

Ringo flexed his hand and out jutted his claws; natural and keenly angular, slightly glinting in the very limited light.

'I'd like to see some worthless little prey just try to-!'

Step.

Step.

Step.

Ringo's train of thought was halted and eyes went wide when out of the darkness, footfalls could be heard from behind. Heedful and now on alert, the leopard kept his claws flexed, ready to make a move on whoever it was that was stupid enough to try and sneak up on him... only for the footsteps to suddenly stop. A mixture of concern and confusion spread across his face as he squinted to peer into the darkness.

'Huh? They stopped... are they messing with me?' Ringo scrutinized. No matter how hard he stared, he was unable to see. He figured it was a dumb idea to creep on him and stayed their distance. Good, they knew their place. "Yeah, you better stay back there! Try and sneak up on me again!"

Giving one last glance, he resumed walking at the previous walking speed, already fed up and senses heightened, Ringo just wanted to get home.

The moment he began moving-

Step.

Step.

Step.

The walking could be heard again, albeit a bit louder and crisper, only serving to put the leopard further on edge. He halted himself and so too, did the footfalls. Whatever he was feeling before, was now magnified as he stared behind him again.

'Matching my footsteps... Is this guy seriously fucking with me?!' Ringo frantically thought, the familiar feeling welling up inside him again. He didn't move, his fur bristling and his eyes locked in place. "I'm warning you... Fuck. Off!! Or if you got something to say, quit hiding and show you face, I dare you!"

He shouted into the dark, only for silence to be his returned answer.

His heart was beginning to race and he turned forward to move again, no longer going in hustled steps but now at a brisk pace. He slipped his hand into his pocket, having a grasp on his phone as a just in case. The jostling of the bag wasn't helping, but he was still able to keep an ear out.

Step.

Step.

Step.

Step.

Step.

He stopped again and abruptly turned, only for the footfalls to do the same, only to come to a stop after hearing a couple more times and that's when it hit him. He was moving across the gravel in the back alley...

What he was hearing was the sound of shoes walking on tiled floor... and they were loud enough to hear.

The revelation freaked out Ringo and he whipped his phone out, shaking it a couple times before the flashlight blared, piercing into the shadows, only find nothing there, just the same endless quietus. His heart was now pumping as he stared, his fight or flight response kicking into high gear. Something was there he just didn't know who or possibly what. He kept looking just a little longer until-

Step.

Step.

Step.

Step.

Like an explosion without warning, Ringo turned and began into a full blown sprint throughout the alley, everything in him was screaming at him to get away as fast as he could as the shadow cloaked walls stretched along with him! The flashlight swaying to and fro, the bag widely shaking and bouncing in his grip as he kept running. He was now panting, but refused to stop.

He just had to RUN.

Step.

Step.

Step.

Step.

Even as he moved the footfalls were consistent, unchanging, persistent... near. They sounded much closer now and that sent him into a frenzy, but he didn't have the ability to shout or yell, only to flee. Panting, Ringo didn't bother looking back, he just wanted to get away from... whatever it was that was following him... only to misstep and get his foot caught behind his ankle, causing him to trip up and stumble onto the ground. The bag of freshly bought meat was flung from his grip and his phone slipping from his hand, landing a good distance away as the flashlight cracked on impact with the ground, shutting off and leaving him in the darkness, once again..

Hastily trying to get back up, the sudden feeling of soul crushing dread swept through him as he slowly looked back just in time to be unable to do anything else.

Step.

Step.

Step.

STEP.

The footfalls stopped with that last one and once again there was deathly silence, but this time... Ringo didn't have the words, only his rapidly beating heart to be the only source of internalized noise.

Whatever had followed him, was now here and he still couldn't see whatever it was, but was damn certain looking at him. The only thing that was clear, was the prickling sensation of visceral tears, in the corner of his now widen eyes, pupils dilated to the point of nearly the entire iris. It didn't even register that his pants was soaked in piss.

All the leopard could do, was look...

"P-Please... I.. I... I...!"

---

End of Prologue—-

That's what I got, I'm looking forward to the feedback you all can provide. I want to give it that horror kind of feeling, or as best I can at least. Thank you kindly in advance.

Edited by Vemri on Jul 10th 2022 at 1:01:35 AM

Before I read it, I need to ask—will there be any canon spoilers in your fanfic? I've only just finished all the series up until book 12 (which covers all of the anime that's been released so far and goes a bit beyond), so how much of Beastars is the reader of your fanfic expected to have read?

Please answer with a specific episode number or volume number, and not with an event. So please don't describe, or hint at, any concrete plot developments. To use a made-up example that doesn't actually happen in the series: Please don't say something like "The reader's supposed to know that Legoshi was actually a robot all along" or "It takes place right after space aliens kidnap Louis and take him to Mars", because obviously that's a spoiler in itself.

Nah, no spoilers at all. Just using canon characters to help move along the Fic. The story is entirely different from the canon one, so don't worry. The only main focuses are Cherryton Academy and The Black Market. I'm also using the Osaka prefecture as a basis, just to make things easier ground and understand, rather than using something ambiguous as "The City".

Edited by Vemri on Jul 10th 2022 at 4:55:29 AM

Okay, a few points:

• You make the wise decision to let the beginning take its time. Lots of people would try to get the plot to move forward too quickly, to "get to the good parts". (Granted, a predator being chased in the dark is a pretty good part, too.)
• You start at a good point. An inferior writer would show Ringo getting out of bed and going to the black market, but you start where the actual plot starts.
• The plot's appropriately creepy. You draw things out enough that it makes sense that a tough guy like Ringo would be freaked out by the situation.
• The prose needs a large amount of proofreading. There are lots of missing words and other grammar errors. To be honest, I don't know what you mean by "completing the transaction once he was handed when the vendor did the same."

Take this paragraph, where I've bolded every error I saw: Another paragraph, where I can't quite figure out what's meant to be happening: Who's hearing what a couple more times? Taken at face value, this sentence says that the footfalls heard something a couple more times. Here, "scrutinized" is the wrong word. It means to inspect something closely. I don't have time to go into every single grammar and word error, but this is the kind of error I keep seeing—stuff that looks good and fancy at first glance, but doesn't quite work when you take a closer look.

• The tone between the vendor and Ringo is a bit inconsistent. First Ringo is "sir," but then they're on a first-name basis and he's just "Ringo".
• You tend to use unnecessary words.
  • Especially adjectives and adverbs. The silence is stilled silence, the commotion is noisy commotion, and a slender leopard is somewhat slender. That last one, "somewhat", is especially unnecessary. I can promise you that your readers won't know the difference between a slender leopard and a somewhat slender one, and we don't need to know that silence is stilled.
  • Another example of an unnecessary word is "now."
    going from simple, yet paced steps to ones that were now hurried. His grip on the back tightening as he kept moving and his ears now sideslipping
• What he was hearing was the sound of shoes walking on tiled floor... and they were loud enough to hear.The revelation freaked out Ringo

I'm not sure what the revelation is supposed to be here. He already knew that he was followed. Why does the fact that it was by somebody wearing a pair of shoes matter?

• You misuse words. At one point, you say that he found "just the same endless quietus". The word "quietus" means "death." (See Hamlet's soliloquy, "his quietus might make with a bare bodkin".) I think you meant to say "quiet". If you did mean "death", the word "quietus" is still a bit too high-falutin.
• Some phrasings are a bit clunky. Take this one:
  Ringo's train of thought was halted and eyes went wide when out of the darkness, footfalls could be heard from behind.

You're trying too hard to get fancy. It'd be better to either say that he heard footfalls from behind. The "out of the darkness" part doesn't quite fit. Also, it should be "from the darkness".

• You tend to overuse the gerund form of verbs. Take this sentence:
  He slipped his hand into his pocket, having a grasp on his phone as a just in case.
  This is incorrect. Taken at face value, this sentence says that he already was grasping his phone as he was slipping his hand into his pocket. Here's a sentence I use as an example for why this is incorrect: "Unlocking the car door, he got in the Volvo and drove away." The sentence is wrong, because it claims that he drove away while he was unlocking the car door (which is obviously impossible). Only use the gerund form of a verb—the "-ing" form—if things are actually meant to be happening at the same time.

So yeah. Good plot, good characterization, phrasing and grammar needs improvement.

Edited by MichaelKatsuro on Jul 11th 2022 at 7:07:27 AM

Awesome! Thank you so very much the criticism. Yeah, that's always been my weakness; missing words and grammatical errors. That said, I'll take what you said to heart and apply that to the first chapter, while going over the prologue to see what and where I messed up. Again, thank you for taking the time to read it over. Much obliged.

Edited by Vemri on Jul 11th 2022 at 9:09:50 AM

Please note that the practice here is to post a link to your work, which helps keep this thread readable, and provides some protection to you against having your work stolen.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

Ah, right. Sorry, I thought this was the best way to post what I have. I'll be more mindful from now on. Any tips that I can use for linking my work?

Google docs works well.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

Ah, the docs. Alright. I'll keep that in mind for next time. Thanks again,

And just to be clear: This is basically a good story (with flaws). The reason I went on at length about the errors is just because there was lots to say.

I understand. I knew what I was getting into by asking for the critique, because I want to get better at this. I'll take the criticism gladly.

OK, with that done, it's time for another one.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

Hey guys! So yeah, i'm back. If ya want to know what happened to me while i was gone, go check the writer's block daily thread.

So yeah, while i was gone, i revised the first episode of my original story extensively. While the plot remains essentially the same, many details were changed (such as the setting and The main character's name changing from Eleanor to Evelyn, for example) and i shortened the ending a bit. It also has a new title, "Evelyn of the valley", which is still not the final title.

So yeah, i would like your opinion on this new version of my story.

~Kinni 454:

I cannot critique your story as I currently cannot access the document on Google Docs. Can you allow access to the document? I also need to wait for ~De Marquis for assistance on critiquing the draft.

Reporting for duty.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

Ah, that's weird...i thought i made it accessible...

UPDATE: alright, i made it accessible. Should be working now...

Edited by Kinni454 on Aug 4th 2022 at 8:44:55 AM

Am reading. Give me a few days.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

Ok, so, "For want of a Garlic Bread"

This is clearly intended to be a semi-humorous, "a day in the life of" type short story featuring a teenaged female protagonist. I think it achieves those goals, while I never laughed out loud, I did become engaged by the story and found the antics and adventures of the protag to be cute and endearing enough that I wanted to read it through to the end. I have some general criticisms and some more specific ones.

In general, your setting is under-described. It looks like pre-industrial England, but you never call it pre-industrial England. I have no idea if "Gravenbirch", the "Cantons", or the "Valley of Dana" actually exist or not, but I've never heard of them before, so if these place names were intended to provide me with a sense of location they failed. If this is an historical place or time, you need to provide enough clues to ensure that the reader understands that. If this is a fantasy setting, then we need to know that. Which of these it should be depends on your purpose in telling the story. As it stands, there is no other fantastical element (with one anachronism I will get to) included in the story, so I think it would read better if you picked an historical setting. It's up to you, but you need to be clear about it.

There are two characters who are described in enough detail that we can gain some insight into their internal motivations. One is the protagonist, Evelyn, and the other is Father Mc Cullough. You show us some hints that the Father feels some degree of self-doubt for some reason, and then never follow this up. It has no discernible impact on the plot of the story that I can see. Unless this is the first part of a multi-part series, in which you intend to feature Father M in more detail, I think those passages could be cut out. But then you would be left with an entire Cathedral scene that basically serves no story purpose. You could cut everything out before Evelyn begins her journey through the village and not lose anything important to this story (how she obtained the bag of food could be described in a very brief exposition). If you want Father M to matter, then something he does should impact what happens to her later, and it would have to be tied to his characterization. In other words, his feelings of self-doubt should help cause her to steal the loaf of bread later. That would be challenging to write into the story, but not impossible. Otherwise it's just a distraction. If, however, you intend to further explore his feelings in a later story, then it could stand (although this story would become stronger if you followed this advice).

Evelyn's motivations are not complicated, and do not need to be. But she does come across as a little flat. I did not realize that she was poor until nearly the end of the story. This is partly the result of her internal monologue, which doesn't communicate very clearly to the reader exactly what makes Evelyn unique as a character in this story. Her diction, her behavior, and her actions fail to communicate her background, even when that might help strengthen the plot. For example, the reason why she steals a loaf of bread, despite the fact that she is holding a bag full of food, might relate to her background of never having enough to eat. This would help us understand her better, and tie the story together more effectively (this would also help explain why she is so skilled at evading the patrol).

She also needs a unique voice, by which I mean that the words she uses, how she pronounces them and the sentence structure that she uses, should be at least a little different from anyone else in the story, or from the average reader. This will help us understand who she is better, and make her more interesting to read about. I would suggest doing some research on how lower class people in pre-industrial England used to speak. You couldn't do better than read anything by Dickens (if you want her to be more rural, then study how Tolkien depicts the Hobbits speaking in LOTR).

Your writing style needs some work. There are a number of problems. For one, I find your way of expressing information in your story to be too casual and informal, including conversational phrases like "The Town of Gravenbirch is an OK Place to live [...] That's how most of its denizens would describe it." or "Blue Collar workers, Exhausted from a hard day's work, celebrate the end of their shift by either drinking a pint at the local tavern, "The Stompin' Bumpkin", or watching the races at the Hippodrome, while Faithful and Pious Men and women came to the cathedral up north for the masses."

Your narrator is a reporter informing the audience of essential details as unobtrusively as possible. To the extent that your readers are aware of the narrator's voice, they are taken out of the world of the story, and reminded that they are merely reading one. Unless you are engaging in an experimental writing exercise, you don't want that. Therefore, while narrating, be as concise and objective as possible.

Another mistake is to change verb tense in the middle of a paragraph. "Would describe" and "celebrate" are two different verb tenses, and contrast with each other too much. You should use past tense in all cases.

The phrase "Blue Collar workers" is more appropriate to a modern setting rather than a historical one, so it should be changed. If you wish to stick with a semi-rural setting, then "craftsmen" or "laborers" would be more fitting.

Making these changes would result in something like the following:

"The denizens of Gravenbirch described their village as an decent place in which to live." "The laborers of the village, exhausted after a day's work, celebrated the end of their shift either by drinking a pint at the local tavern, the "Stompin' Bumpkin", or watching the races at the Hippodrome..."

Or something like that. You will want to translate my examples into a writing style you are more comfortable with, while taking my advice into account.

Finally, what is the chariot doing there? That comes from an ancient setting, not a pre-industrial one. I think you may have meant something like "hay cart" (which have two wheels).

I hope that this was helpful.

Edited by DeMarquis on Aug 12th 2022 at 10:55:07 AM

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."