Trails franchise (Trails In The Sky, Trails Of Cold Steel etc)

Hey do the games have a quick save button? I honestly can't remember.

Edited by HailMuffins on Mar 27th 2020 at 9:25:00 AM

In some interesting trivia, Cold Steel 3 is labeled ED 83 in the in game files on PC.

Funny how the PC ports have exclusively still featured the old Legend of Heroes numbering.

Sometimes I'm not the best at judging animation quality. I think I got a bit excited by it and didn't notice the details, rewatching the video makes it clear it isn't that good quality.

Cold Steel III Chapter I (spoilers for Crossbell too!)

That was a really long first chapter huh? It took me 18 hours all up. Not sure if it's the longest C1, but its up there.

So Ash is critical towards Rean and Musse is mysterious. Given Rean's just spent a year working at the command of Osbourne, he probably has fair reasons.

A+ Rean and Randy bathhouse fanservice.

The information about Class VII is cool. Happy to see Elliot debuted. And Machias joining a department aimed against Obsbourne and by extension his father is an interesting setup.

Jingo is back! I really want to see if my pet theory about her being Randy's half sister is true or not. Also every interaction another town resident has with her is hilarious.

Altina talking about feeling underwater and wombs makes me think her and Millium might be artificial humans.

Speaking of, yay Millium is back! But also boo Lechter is back.

Valimar calling Millium the "smallest secondary contractor" is adorable.

Quite a few people from North Ambria in this game. I wonder if the part of the world North Ambria/JMZ is in has white hair as a common trait.

Millium's desire to be friends with Altina is very cute.

Musse and Tatiana bonding of their mutual love of Boy's Love. Seems that gag is back.

I knew it! Millium and Altina are homunculi!

I know they repeat stuff from previous games in the early chapters, but its quite helpful sometimes. I forgot that the Black Workshop joined Osbourne.

Pfft, I can't believe Munk got Misty back to run Abend Time. That's hilarious. Rean's expression when he hears Vita's voice is priceless.

I'm forced to conclude that Vita just really enjoys her hobby? It's also pretty amusing that she's using really high tier spells to do so without getting caught. I peg her as in the top ten magic users on the continent, and its such a mundane utility.

Yep, based on their actions Ash and Musse definitely have things going on.

Rean finally asked Claire why she's an Ironblood. I won't lie, I don't really care for her because of that affiliation. Of the three I really only like Millium, but I really see her as less culpable than the other two.

Vivi!! One of my favorite students is back!

And Shirley too! I wonder if Rean recognized her from intelligence or just sensed her bloodlust.

I'm struck by the realization that to Juna and Kurt the relationship between Altina and Rean is a lot like the one between Sara and Fie two years ago.

So Juna and Kurt knew of Ouroboros. It seems like knowledge about them is getting more widespread. Since I figure she knew about it from the Police Academy. It seems like its not available to the public though.

That blonde girl seems like a vampire, so I guess she's connected to the novels from the last game?

So Rean and Altina became close over the past year? She's opened up a lot compared to CS II.

Hmmm, Sister Liane gets a voice line and has blue hair. Significant!

That derail was totally Shirley. Same MO as back in Crossbell.

Oh, Claire's last name is the same as that instrument shop.

Tita's VA has grown on me. But I think hers and Shirley's lack a bit of pep. Although I suppose they have matured.

We've totally met the Vandar instructor before. But I can't think of a female character it could be. Since Laura wouldn't be teaching in a Vandar hall...

Mint is back!!

So Rean doesn't have control over his "ogre" powers? Or they're somehow hurting him? I think I see why Osbourne called him worthless.

Annabelle! This chapter is just bringing back all of my favorite side characters isn't it?

Pretty cool we got to the edge of Liberl. Parm is not really the most southern town though...

Oh this is totally the gate to Joshua's village isn't it?

I was wrong about Laura. And it seems she's leveled grinded a lot in the last year. Outpacing Rean makes a lot of sense though, since he would have relied on Valimar a lot for his government duties.

Fie's outfit is a bit better than the previous one, but I'm still not enthused by the impracticality of it.

Really like how the party totally changes to the old Class VII. I prefer it when its like this. Otherwise I feel like you don't use every character.

It's also a really nice touch how loads of people in Saint-Arkh know Fie, because of course they do. She's a Bracer!

Another really neat detail is that Elliot unlike Laura, Rean and Fie hasn't seen much combat the last year. So as a result his crafts have stayed the same.

That plot point about Erebonia demanding retributions for the actions of the Northern Jaegars is kind of sad. Its pretty clear everyone politically knows they could never have paid them back. But it gives Erebonia that shred of legitimacy and something to tell the public.

Alan and Bridget got engaged <3

Ooooh, Hamel visit.

Oh wow, its been 3 years since the ending of SC. Since Crossbell took place over about a year, that makes it over two since we last saw Estelle and Joshua.

I really find Musse's personality irritating. Maybe I'll like her more later, but she combines that mysterious thing Emma had with stiring things up. And then being, not smug but maybe self satisfied about it.

And it seems like based on levels Agate > Laura in combat.

That's cool, seems like Estelle and Joshua were meant to come instead, but the government said "hell no!"

Did not realize Tita was 16 at this point.

I'm not sure Shirley actually cared about Hamel. She was quiet and moved the battle out of the town. But I think she might have just wanted to be polite to Duvalie.

Not a big fan of Juna and Kurt saving Rean. They did make things work out by providing the Soldat, but really basically any other combatant there could have flattened them.

I know original VII did the same, but they didn't try to fight Ouroboros against orders on their first field study.

So that stuff about the Jaeger King is cool and all, but it was probably the biggest thing I was spoiled about previously.

So Zepher is either working for Osbourne, or potentially another faction?

And that's the end of a hefty chapter.

Edited by 32ndfreeze on Mar 29th 2020 at 4:17:08 AM

‘Hefty Chapter’ I think defines Trails beyond the first entry in each saga.

Edited by Memers on Mar 29th 2020 at 2:37:14 AM

So, after having finished Zero, I've been thinking, and I think I've decided...Joachim is kind of a weak villain? I mean, he does his job well enough, but compared to antagonists past and future, he's disappointing.

There are a few reasons for this, but they mostly come back to him feeling like a knockoff of Weissman - even Estelle and Joshua flat-out say that compared to Weissman he's disappointing.

Granted, a decent part of this can be attributed to Weissman getting to have an entire game with him as the main villain after spending almost the entire prior entry as comic relief, whereas Joachim has squeeze in his entire tenure as the Big Bad into the last chapter of Zero. Of course, Ao isn't quite as much of a "Part II" as SC is, since Zero doesn't end on a cliffhanger, so I guess that can be forgiven. But I do think it goes deeper than that (and since Weissman is the one he bears the most similarity to, I'll keep using him as a comparison).

For one thing, Weissman has a prominent connection to the main cast via his past with Joshua, and he has several very strong scenes on top of that that help to make him a memorable character. Joachim...kind of doesn't. Most of his villainy takes place offscreen, and while there's the Cult's role in Tio's backstory, he doesn't seem to have been personally involved with that, and there's not really much of an effort to build a relationship between the two, either as a way to build enmity after The Reveal, or a more positive one that is then cruelly dashed. Even The Reveal itself - Weissman's being perhaps one of the defining moments of Trails in the Sky - just sort of happens; the heroes just kind of figure it out on their own, and Ernest confirms it. Really, the biggest emotional impact might be more from the Fridge Horror of "Oh shit, thank Aidios we never actually left Ke A with this guy."

There's also the fact that the Cult and Gnosis don't really enter into the plot until Chapter 4. Mind you, once they do, they're fairly well-explored as elements of the setting, but they don't really have a presence beforehand. Most of the focus is on Revache, and while it's pretty clear that there's a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes that we don't know about, there isn't really anything like Loewe manipulating Richard to give it a proper presence in the plot.

Could this have been solved? Perhaps - a proper onscreen betrayal would have helped, I think. Though the problem is that my two major ideas for that run into some roadblocks. For one thing, having him actually kidnap Ke A would have been a big Gut Punch for the player, particularly if it come about from the SSS actually leaving Ke A at the hospital - just imagine the guilt from that.. Of course, if that happened...I think he would have basically won? The game makes a point of Ke A never actually falling into his hands, and while I'm not entirely sure if he could have succeeded in his goals for her, I do think that's a good indication that if he had gotten his hands on her, the good guys would have basically lost.

The other would have been to play him up as a more of a major ally, and maybe change his design a bit? As it stands, the player wouldn't really care about him as more than a weird doctor who loves to fish, and while one could say that would cause the player not to give him a second though, I do think his role and appearance are similar enough to Weissman that it can make him look somewhat suspicious (mind you, I was spoiled that he was the villain, so maybe I'm biased). Maybe he could have been more significant, an early supporter for the SSS when everyone else was looking down on them, with the betrayal revealing that he never actually believed in them? Then again, that kind of steps on the toes of the villains of Ao, and while I still haven't gotten to that part yet, those strike me as far more important villain revelations.

Mind you, it's not like he doesn't have anything going for him - the Cult are some of the most vile people in the setting, and the stuff with the Brainwashed and Crazy Guardian Force was probably my favorite part of the climax - but like I said before, I think he pales in comparison to other, more important villains.

Mind you, maybe that was intentional - everyone does flat-out call him pathetic at the end. But I do think that story-wise, they could have made him work a bit better. What do you guys think?

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Mar 29th 2020 at 11:56:49 AM

I agree with most of that, yeah.

I feel like they should have at least given him a more distinct design from Weissman.

I think the villain being weak is intentional as a way to hint that this entire plot is little more than a setup to the real villains.

Particularly with Ouroboros never even really showing up.

There's also a Lavos thing with this game that while the (technically) main villain is weak, all the arc villains make up for it. I freaking love Revache and the Triple Triad guy (forgot the name that thing has here).

I can agree with a lot of what you said.

Although I kind of like the fact he isn't connected to any of the main characters that strongly.

When I played Zero I quite liked that the ending was smaller scale. And the final dungeon felt more like a police raid.

I think it also works well with the Big City setting of the game. He comes off more as "just another criminal" on some level to me.

That makes sense, yeah. I just feel like the actual build-up could have been a bit stronger.

Truth be told most of the plot of Zero is just the plot of FC/SC condensed into one game.

Well, I don't know about that - most of the SC-esque moments seem to be happening in Ao. The only thing that really strikes me as such in Zero is how it's mostly a throwback to Weissman at the end (where as Ao's villains, from what I understand, appear to go in a more original direction).

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Mar 30th 2020 at 12:30:59 PM

Oh there's enough to stand out, sure enough, but count with me:

• Team of inexperienced goody two shoes having to earn the respect of their peers;

• Memetic Badass Bracer that acts like a distant protector to the main team;

• Child genius victim of experiments at the hands of a demon-worshipping cult;

• Veteran soldier with far more experience than his tender age would suggest;

• Protagonist is motivaded by the death of a family member;

• Protagonist wants to live up to the name of a more experienced member of the same profession everyone agrees in the hottest shit to ever stand beneath the sun;

And so on.

Look, Zero doesn't have new forniture, it just rearrenges it a bit.

That doesn't make it a bad game, by no means, it does enough to keep things fresh, but it is very much a setup they weren't trying to inovate on.

Edited by HailMuffins on Mar 30th 2020 at 1:55:18 PM

I don't entirely disagree, though that's significantly broad strokes enough that the games still feel fairly distinct from one another, since there's usually some manner of major difference in how those things are played despite them drawing from the same concept.

I will dispute the point on the Child Soldier cult experiment part, since while retroactively we know of Rennes experience with the cult, her relationship with Estelle and Joshua was far less informed by her connection to that than the way Tio's is with the SSS. Renne's past obviously plays a large part in her arc, being why she runs away as she fears what will happen if Estelle and Joshua discover her history, but her situation in SC is far more related to her working alongside Uroboros and the evils she's committing while working with them. It's not until Zero that the details of the cult and Renne's connection are really expanded upon, and it feels more like the next step of her arc than something that featured in SC.

The soldier part was in reference to Randy, actually.

Tio isn't anymore formidable in battle than the rest of the team, because she lucked out and wasn't picked by Ouroboros, differently from Renne.

So, what you mean is that the basic character arcs of FC and SC are kind of fused into one game?

Sort of, yeah.

Well, except Randy's, his gets the conclusion in the next game.

I confused the young veteran soldier and child genius parts of your point and mixed them together somehow, my bad. I was referring to the child genius cult connection thing. Randy's whole arc I take it you were comparing to Joshua then?

Edited by Alfric on Mar 30th 2020 at 11:27:56 AM

So I've been thinking of getting into this series, and was wondering if it was a must-have to play the first trilogy in terms of story.

You don't have to start with it, but you'll want to play it at some point to get the full experience. You can enjoy the first three arcs on their own, but everything comes together in CSIII&IV and culminates in one massive epic. They explain everything well enough, but you won't get the full picture or be as invested if you haven't played all the previous games.

Edited by kkhohoho on Mar 30th 2020 at 10:15:19 AM

The franchise is essentially one giant ongoing story split up into several smaller story arcs so while it's not necessarily "must-have", it makes the whole experience better.

Edited by LordVatek on Mar 30th 2020 at 11:14:12 AM

Won't lie, was hoping to hear the opposite since the original trilogy is old, and I have a Mac. So I'm going to be reliant on emulations for the original games.

That or watch a playthrough.

As for the second and third trilogies, I have a PS 4 for the latter, but the former was never released outside Japan apparently. The page for it states the Updated Re-release might get localized, but nothing certain. In the meantime, is there anyway to enjoy its story?

Sky is very charming.

In my opinion the first two subseries have a certain charm I think Cold Steel lacks.

I think playing Sky first is also the optimal way to experience the story.

The duology that currently doesn't have an official release has fan translations for both games.

The first game has a very high quality translation (came out in the last week or so), while the second has a good quality translation.

Edited by 32ndfreeze on Mar 31st 2020 at 3:06:55 AM

Yeah, Sky is essential, if you honestly asked me. No better starting point than the beginning.

Don't have Steam?