take it easy it's just code

There's something strangely frustrating about finally having my two brain cells rub together to make me realize I could edit a screenshot of Aichi to make him smiling as a decent avatar of him in the proper outfit for the FG...

...When I'm working on him up for his time skip, in which he will no longer wear this outfit. He'll switch to his high school uniform... Which is definitely snazzy, don't get me wrong, but I spent ALL this time being frustrated because I didn't have an accurate avatar that looked any good (As the ones I have all feel off, don't have him smiling, and/or have odd lighting). I've got one now, and...

...I WON'T EVEN GET TO USE IT FOR THAT LONG. -_-'

No, it's not that big of a deal, but it's still a little frustrating.

Edited by CrystalMemoria on Apr 9th 2019 at 8:58:46 AM

Alright folks, in light of the current situation Badge has been juggling in regards to the RP, as well as this pattern of player-GM posting hitting a rapid decline, it's time we had a discussion about the current state of the RP.

The topic on the board is:

How can we improve posting rates and player engagement to improve plot flow, and to avoid stress on both the GM's and the Players' account?

We've discussed this a bit in the Discord server, but if you missed out on that here's some of the suggestions we've already made towards this:

• Running two GM plots at once
• Restructuring the RP to be similar to the FG
• Dumping the TVT RP and running miniature plots on Broken Windows
• Introducing a certain time frame in which players have to participate in the RP, or they'll be benched the rest of the plot

This is now an open brainstorm session, discuss the upsides and downsides to these and any new suggestions you all have. Do not immediately knock anything down as "it won't work." We need to civilly discuss an idea to see if it's possible for everyone.

Now, building off the suggestions we've already had, here's the pros and cons as we've discussed (and as I understand it):

• Running two separate GM plots at once
  • Pros: Give the GMs less players to have to juggle and more immediately sets the pace for the plot
  • Cons: We cannot easily determine who wants to play in each plot, and asking everyone to just evenly split isn't ideal. It may seem hectic to have more than one GM'd plot thread as well.

• Restructuring the RP to be similar to the FG
  • Pros: Plots organically grow and thrive in the FG, so trying to make that stick in the RP could work
  • Cons: The FG has always been incredibly loose and decentralized, so mirroring that in the RP while working with the core idea of "solving a plot in another location" might be difficult. We could also run into issues of solid continuity, as well as things potentially getting hectic to have different plots going.

• Running miniature plots on Broken Windows
  • Pros: Solves the issue of gauging who's willing to participate in a more controlled environment
  • Cons: we're all bad at keeping up with broken windows It's more convenient to have to only check TVT to play in "our avatars are in a room together" than to split your attention between two different sites.

• Introducing a certain time frame in which players have to participate in the RP, or they'll be benched the rest of the plot
  • Pros: Creates a kind of commitment to posting and might be able to keep everyone's motivation up if there's a time limit
  • Cons: It's incredibly unfair to everyone's schedules and complications can arise in our lives that keep us from posting within this time limit.

Now then! Just because I listed some pros and cons doesn't mean we can't still discuss the suggestions that are up now. The last suggestion is specifically mine, so I'll defend it a little better than how I did in the server haha.

When I propose a maximum time limit to post in the RP, I kinda think back to that old rule we had where GMs were required to post within two weeks or we'd end the plot. I don't really think that should apply today, not when you consider the scope of how most plots are written these days. Unceremoniously dumping the players back like the plot didn't happen or it got snipped off isn't very satisfying either, but I think the idea for that rule came before the days of Discord when a GM could just disappear and not post in the forum for two weeks.

Still, I do still think applying that to the players might help with engagement. If nothing else, it serves as a reason to keep checking the RP if you know you want to be in the RP.

I think there was a misunderstanding when I made this suggestion the first time around, that I was suggesting that the time limit was "post within [this many hours] to [this one post] or you're done. No, no, no, that's incredibly unfair to everyone in separate time zones and really doesn't consider someone's personal life.

But say you haven't posted in the RP for an upward of two weeks, and the plot's moved along without you. I don't think it's fair to the GM to keep making them expect that you're gonna post, and it's not entirely fair to the GM to have to restructure elements of the plot to meet a dwindling audience. So if nothing else, putting down, like, a two week minimum of posting or else sounds kinda fair to me.

And we're not running a dictatorship either. There's nothing saying you can't discuss with the GM that you've been bodyslammed for two straight weeks and haven't been able to keep up, but once you're free you'll be able to. That's another caveat to my suggestion.

That's my defense to that, feel free to bounce it around some more or not, we gotta reach a group conclusion over this anyway.

Discuss!

IMO one of the biggest underlying issues that's causing the burnout and unhappiness and jank is the fact that we've got too many dang people now. At some point the group begins too big to manage and attempts to mitigate it (splitting up groups, etc) don't work too great and cause their own problems.

I think one of the big things that let the RP work (relatively) well in the past was the smaller amount of players. We used to keep a set number of spots but somewhere along the line we kinda stopped doing that. IDK if going back to a set number of people would solve everything, but it'd probably help.

As for how to put people in slots... I'm not sure. Something random seems the most fair but it'd still suck.

One problem I see with the multiple RP plot idea is that, aside from splitting the players into separate groups, is that it could easily turn into making new threads for new plots, and I don't know how I feel about that.

Yeah I should've mentioned that too, but that we have so many people in the RP has always been something lingering on my mind.

I know we said at one point we could probably manage having too many people at one point, but I think it's fair to say that's not entirely the case anymore. I'm not sure how we can decide who should stay if we do intentionally limit the number again, though...

We could do a roll call/check for interest every time a new plot is about to start.

Could plausibly be a rotating schedule or something along those lines too.

The elephant in the room is that our will to post becomes reduced the less essential to the plot we feel. Why have my character ask a question if four others have the same one? Why fight when nine people are going to describe different fights?

On the flipside, how can I reasonably GM for so many characters?

This is the one biggest sapper of GM and Player energy. If the RP continues to exist, we need to put a cap on 15.

Hell, 10-12. Draw it by lottery for utter fairness. We're too big to coast by on the presumption that all will be involved.

This could be integrated into the "if you don't post in two weeks, you're out" with the understanding that someone else can then take your much-desired spot.

Edited by SR3NORMANDY on Apr 17th 2019 at 7:33:53 PM

I agree with norm. I think we should put up a cap on Roleplayers in a current plot. By doing this, we can plan ahead for future plots.

imo we should establish the understanding that the rp is a Commitment, moreso than the fg is. imo also, itd be good to set a limit of one char per player.

i think being more stringent about posting is good, and limiting players, but i also worry that these are bandaids to the structural issues at play which while fixing the symptoms do not fix the cause.

do we want to make it easier for the rp to stick to how we were able to play it when we were all in high school, or do we want to adjust the structure to better fit our current conditions? further thoughts when my computer is booted up

@norm: I take issue with "draw by lottery for utter fairness", since lottery-type deals inherently cause negativity and brew bad emotions, especially if we don't make the cut for a plot we're Very Eager For. This also has an issue if a GM wishes to discuss things privately with a player about potential happenings, only for said player to not make the cut.

I understand that this specific tidbit probably wasn't the primary message in your idea, but if we do go with a hard cap in the RP I heavily disagree with a randomness factor like that.

yeah i'm kind of fucked if i want aichi to do a thing in my plot (hypothetically), and then it turns out crystal isn't drawn in the lottery for the plot

How’s about you’re given first dibs to a slot in a plot you yourself actually voted for (since you obviously wanted to do it) and the rest are filled in by volunteers who still want to participate?

that'd require making votes public which isn't something im privvy on

Hrm... it does sound like a good idea, but then that'd expose who voted for the plot and we're not really meant to see that. It'd create biases (or make anyone with a bias noticeable).

Yeah.

I agree with Trip and Space about the lottery thing.

Although, a possible fix to that would be for the following... What if whoever is in charge of the lottery approaches the next GM, and asks if there's anyone in particular they need for it?

Say I had plans for Space's character to be heavily involved in my plot (or providing specific elements that would work amazingly with it), and I ended up having my plot win. Let's say Mobile's in charge of the lottery, and she DMs me, asking about if there's any particular player that is absolutely crucial to the story I have in mind.

I simply say that I request Space could be involved, and then Space is slated to be in.

This would not have to be shared outside of the DMs with Mobile. No one would have to know about the "favoritism", and Mobile wouldn't be spoiled as to what the plan is either, outside of knowing that player is involved with something.

There would be a limit to how many people you could request, of course, and the lottery-person would still have to roll for everyone else.

Naturally Co-GMs would be exempt from this, as they are involved by virtue of being a Co-GM.

This is just an idea that popped into my head. I don't mean to cause any trouble with it, if I am.

Edited by CrystalMemoria on Apr 17th 2019 at 4:58:30 AM

Honestly? Abolish the RP. Run plot threads on Broken Windows. It's the only solution. The group is far too big now to have one big plot thread with zero sum elections and one GM for 20+ people.

Also I have to morally disagree with the idea of a lottery to decide players.

Edited by TooManyIdeas on Apr 17th 2019 at 6:10:29 AM

I'm a little nervous about the idea of moving the RP arcs/threads entirely to Broken Windows since it does seem rather barren most of the time, as well as the fact that I hate dealing with the formatting and text colors...

However, I do see the merit of it as well. Perhaps moving them there would help with getting more activity there, even.

And as for the lottery thing, I don't really agree with the idea that much. I was just trying to provide an idea that could possibly help with it if others wanted to pursue the idea.

Edited by CrystalMemoria on Apr 17th 2019 at 5:14:28 AM

I gotta second Crystal on the idea of a full BW move, though I'm a bit more hesitant. I definitely see the merits, but the whole issue of formatting is tangible. Like, I dunno what it is but the design of the site seems kinda unfriendly towards post formats that aren't prose (and i almost never do prose so).

Edited by foxmccloud4387 on Apr 17th 2019 at 3:16:42 AM

And TVT's formatting isn't unfriendly? It's actually incredibly jank, we just got used to it over the years. BW just uses BBC code. But that's besides the point, of course.

I strongly oppose moving to BW. The RP’s on there don’t seem to last very long

Both are jank, IMO, but one lf them is a much more familiar and cozy jank. Perhaps that's not the most important consideration but it probably matters a lot to a bunch of people, I'd imagine.

Because we haven't moved there. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

I'm sorry if this comes off as like??? aggressive??? I don't mean it that way. I'm just really tired of TVT at this point, honestly.

Edited by TooManyIdeas on Apr 17th 2019 at 6:22:05 AM

Is it really that unfriendly? It feels rather natural to set up text colors, bold, and italics on here... For me, at least.

I don't know anything about BBC Code. It seems way too convoluted for me to have to sort some long and drawn out thing just to make italics when just two apostrophes is easier to remember and type up.

Although it is unfair of me to say that when everyone else has the right to use a better formatting system.

Another issue I have with Broken Windows is probably very superficial, but the colors are rather unpleasant to my eyes. Black and orange isn't my ideal color combo...

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say anything out of line, if I am.

Edited by CrystalMemoria on Apr 17th 2019 at 5:23:20 AM