This is a thread about diseases, medicines, treatments, medical insurances, hospital policies, and everything else interesting about human body here.
IMPORTANT NOTE: This is NOT a place for medical diagnosis and advice. For those, please consult certified medical professionals of appropriate fields.
Edited by dRoy on Feb 20th 2020 at 2:33:51 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
“Medicine” is the entire practice of diagnosing, treating, and preventing illness, or at least trying to. Traditional, folk and alternative medicines fall under this umbrella, even if they aren’t necessarily scientific or even effective. Biomedicine is medicine based on biology and science rather than something else. Colloquially, the term medicine exclusively refers to biomedicine in the modern usage.
I’m not really sure what you’re asking with the Alien question. Is the question here how long someone could survive if their heart was suddenly destroyed? For that, it would probably be a few minutes tops though you would lose consciousness almost immediately, which in this case is more or less the same thing as death functionally.
Again, like I said, that scene was devised purely for shock value.
Edited by archonspeaks on May 1st 2020 at 7:39:51 AM
They should have sent a poet.
Oh, bother.
We probably shouldn't be expecting realistic medically accurate depictions from Alien.
Disgusted, but not surprised
Regarding chestbursters pre-eruption, it's important to remember that the human body has some tolerance for space-consuming phenomena, especially if they are slow growing and not too large. I don't watch Alien, how large is such a thing in comparison to the human body?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
The Wikipedia article expressly defines "medicine" as the "science and practice of establishing the diagnosis, prognosis, treatment, and prevention of disease" (with biomedical sciences et al. being considered a subset thereof), and notes that prescientific forms of "medicine" do not fall within the modern definition of said term, instead being grouped together as "alternative medicine". This matches the typical usage that I find literally everywhere else, rather than what you claim to be how the terms are defined and interrelate.
I do not see how that is anything but a poor argument against seriously examining the medical plausibility of certain depicted events. If I could, I'd sic Kyle Hill
on you.
The average Chestburster is a little over half a meter long; if it's curled up, it's probably not much bigger than a human head. And IINM nearly a day passed between implantation and hatching in Alien; that's quite rapid growth, but it's canon that the host experiences increased levels of endorphins and adrenaline in their bloodstream during gestation (coupled with the host typically reporting that they feel healthier than usual), which are implied to be chemically induced by the Chestburster as a form of self-defense (feeling good = less chance of seeking treatment = less chance of discovery), so I'd assume that the Chestburster does something to mask its physical presence from the host's nervous system.
Edited by MarqFJA on May 2nd 2020 at 6:59:30 PM
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
I am pretty certain that a human head sized object could fit into a human chest (and belly?) if it's not rolled up w/o creating major issues. There are a lot of diseases - notably, cancer - that can grow to large sizes before being noticed. Of course, a bystander would probably notice the enlarged chest/belly and there would be some problems that a good physical exam would notice.
On Earth, larvae of parasitic wasps can grow pretty quickly, although one day from implantation to "chest burst" is probably fast. Unless the hatchling that gets implanted is already fairly large, of course.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Oh, bother.
It honestly would make more sense for the larva to burst out of the stomach as opposed to the chest, considering how the larva gets into the host in the first place.
Edit:
Looking up the wiki, it seems that Facehuggers don't actually implant anything. Instead, they inject a mutagen into the host that creates a Chestburster out of the host's own cells.
So it kind of is cancer.
Said mutagen btw is a modified form of the Engineers' original Black Liquid created by David.
So instead of a Facehugger shoving an egg into your mouth, it shoots hot liquid into you that "fertilizes" some of your cells to create offspring. I guess that makes it an even more obvious rape metaphor.
Edited by M84 on May 3rd 2020 at 12:26:33 AM
Disgusted, but not surprised
I’m not sure if you’re agreeing with me or not, but yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying.
Colloquially the term medicine refers exclusively to biomedicine in the modern era, but when the term biomedicine is used it’s typically used to distinguish evidence-based practices from practices based on religion or folklore.
They should have sent a poet.
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
I'm disagreeing with you, because my reading of Wikipedia's descriptions indicates the following:
- Medicine, by its modern definition, is strictly scientific and evidence-based, thus setting it apart from all prescientific practices that originally comprised "medicine", which are instead termed "alternative medicine".
- Medicine, by its modern definition, is not synonymous with biomedicine and other "biomedical X" fields, but is simply inclusive of them alongside several other things.
- Somehow, biomedicine is distinguished within modern medicine by specifically employing the field of biology.
The abdomen makes more sense from a pure practicality POV, but the thorax is probably more sensible in terms of the drama/horror factor, since it gives an excuse for drawing out the hatching process (hardy ribcage in the way) and also justifies killing the victim immediately after hatching (you wouldn't die near-instantly from having your innards torn apart, right?).
RE embryo vs. mutagen: To be frank, the fact that all confirmed sources for the "it's a mutagen, not an embryo" thing that I could find all date to within the last half-decade makes me highly confident that this is actually a retcon; the creators had over 20 years to correct the fandom about the nature of the implantation process if the mutagen angle was what they had in mind from the beginning (there's no reasonable excuse for them to not know that every fan and their mother believed whole-heartedly that an actual embryo was implanted), and they did not.
Also, I hate the "mutagen injection" explanation itself. There was nothing wrong with the "embryo implantation" interpretation itself; nothing prevents the embryo from being microscopic upon implantation, and we have at least one real-life animal whose life cycle involves microscopic juveniles infecting a host through the gastrointestinal tract and then finding their way into its bloodstream, through which they travel all the way to their intended destination within the body.
If they really wanted to justify the hybridization, they could've just had the mutagen be something that's secreted by the embryo itself during its gestation. They already have it induce higher endorphin and adrenaline levels anyway.
How would the chest enlarge noticeably if something's growing inside it? The ribcage puts a hard limit on the thoracic cavity's size; about the only plausible sign of an extra occupant within said cavity is shallower and faster breathing due to decreased space for lung expansion.
Edited by MarqFJA on May 2nd 2020 at 6:40:33 PM
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
If you already had an answer to this question, I’m not sure why you asked it. Either way, you’re again like I said getting hung up on the more colloquial use of the term medicine. Biomedicine is an academic term, and a somewhat archaic one at that, used to specifically distinguish biology-based approaches from others, for example chiropractic medicine or acupuncture. All of what we’d call “western medicine” is biomedicine, and in the modern usage, biomedicine and medicine are essentially the same thing, with biomedicine being an academic term almost exclusively. [1] [2]
Edited by archonspeaks on May 2nd 2020 at 9:02:07 AM
They should have sent a poet.
Hrm. If this "facehugger" really just converts existing cells, then the problem arises that these cells have to come from somewhere. That needs some fine tuning...
@Marq, the ribcage is not that inflexible.
Edited by SeptimusHeap on May 3rd 2020 at 10:42:53 AM
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Oh, bother.
The mutagen acts a bit like cancer. It alters cells so that their growth creates a Chestburster. The Chestburster is essentially a sentient tumor.
Disgusted, but not surprised
I believe it’s something like 1-2 inches of expansion during normal breathing, but it can do a fair bit more under stress. CPR for example can compress it quite a bit.
Edited by archonspeaks on May 3rd 2020 at 2:03:56 AM
They should have sent a poet.
Valneva and Pfizer are Codeveloping a Lyme disease vaccine. Lyme Disease is a nasty little bugger, that can cause lifelong complications, and isn't talked about nearly enough.
Ticks have been spreading throughout the US and Europe. Like mosquitos, they transmit pathogens. Borrelia is a twisty, tricky menace, like the tick itself.
You don’t always see the tick and the initial borrelia infection doesn’t always leave the classic bullseye pattern you may have heard about. If you were to realize you were bitten by a tick, it’s believed that taking even one dose of doxycycline (a generic antibiotic) would dramatically reduce your chance of infection, so call your doctor fast. But like I said, you won’t always know.
If the bullseye pattern shows up, then you will likely be prescribed 2-3 weeks of doxycycline, which is thought to have about an 80% chance of curing you of the infection. But if you don’t see that a tick on you (they can be tiny), don’t get the bullseye, or otherwise aren’t cured of borrelia infection, then something really terrible can go wrong with your body. It’s a horror show of pain and neurological problems. We call it Lyme Disease.
It’s not easy to diagnose and the tests are imperfect (sounds familiar to anyone following covid)? But once it’s diagnosed, antibiotics don’t work as well. The bacteria is thought to be able to hide out in the body and resist antibiotics. It can take many years of repeated treatments with cocktails of antibiotics (not the kinds with umbrellas... the kinds with IV tubes) to possibly cure the infection. That’s why it’s critical that we have a vaccine.
But here’s the thing. Many Americans won’t need it. Lyme is a threat to those who live in regions where there are ticks, which are carried & spread by wildlife like deer and mice (a deer can be sucked dry by ticks!). If you live in cities & don’t hike, you probably don’t worry about ticks. This will be an expensive vaccine to develop yet will be used by a minority of the country. That means that the cost will be spread over fewer people each year than the cost of flu and measles vaccines. On a per person basis, that could make it one of the more expensive vaccines.
So if insurance companies charge high copays to discourage people from using it and fewer people take the vaccine, then the market shrinks and the costs have to be spread over even fewer people. If that means copays go up, then fewer people will get it. This is a great example of the insidious nature of copays and insurance design in America. There should not be out of pocket costs to discourage people from taking medicines and vaccines they need.
The more people get the vaccine, the less it need cost per person, & yet cost per person is not as important as value to America as a whole. Like vaccines for SARS 2, a vaccine for Lyme disease is something America can easily afford from its collective budget.
Think of it as insurance against catastrophe. Like all of us paying for a fire department. You don’t see the fire department charging a copay and letting your home burn if you can’t afford it (though they used to, now it’s illegal).
Yet America’s insurance company functionally deny poorer people access to medicines that even they acknowledge these patients need. As I’ve written about in my book & on Medium, we must reform American insurance so cost of innovation is borne by everyone (from premiums/taxes) and not shifted to patients or, in case of Lyme vaccine, just people who happen to live where there are ticks. Disease can come for any of us anytime. Building up our armamentarium of medicines is a worthy goal. & drugs offer great value b/c they go generic, unlike hospitals.
Renal colic and childbirth pain: female experience versus male perception. Looks like the idea that childbirth is the most painful medical event might be a misconception. "Might" because the sample size is tiny.
@Marq: There's a strong overlap between biomedicine and evidence based medicine, but it's not quite 100%; to simplify "evidence based medicine" concerns itself with whether a particular treatment works or not along with the best practices for its administration. Biomedicine is concerned with the biological basis of medicine, which is extremely useful but not inherently necessary to prove efficacy.
A lot of older drugs are/were for decades "black boxes", which have a known effect on the human body or on a particular disease state, but a poorly understood or totally unknown biological mechanism. This is rarely the case with new drugs, since that doesn't fly with regulatory agencies these days, but it used to be extremely common for a drug to be used without any understanding of how it was actually working.
Edited by CaptainCapsase on May 31st 2020 at 12:15:23 PM
Wasn't really sure whether this should go here, in the Economics thread, or maybe the US Politics thread.
So I recently woke up with some sharp stomach pains, and my mom convinced me to go to the hospital and get myself checked out. Good thing I did, because it turned out the pain was appendicitis, and I should get surgery immediately. So I got surgery the same day, slept at the hospital overnight for recovery, and went home the next afternoon.
The entire bill came out to be over $60,000. Looking at the itemized bill it was ridiculous. They charged for the CT scan, blood test, urine test, for the stay in the emergency room, the stay in the recovery room, for every single drug they pumped into me, and I think even for miscellaneous hospital equipment. My dad was telling me that in Korea the same treatment would have probably been more like $10,000. I'm supremely fortunate that this happened during an Army Reserve drill weekend, so the Army picked up the bill for everything.
As for post-op care, I had a follow-up appointment a week later just to make sure I was healing up okay. It took less than 5 minutes. The doctor came in, examined the incisions a bit, asked some questions, and was done. That was it. You'd expect maybe another CT scan or something like that to make sure everything's good inside.
Really opened my eyes to just how shit healthcare in the US is compared to other developed nations. Expensive as all get-out and the quality of treatment and care just doesn't measure up either, unless of course you're willing to shell out even more money.
Anyway, just my firsthand observations about how broken our for-profit healthcare system is. On a positive note, I watched Frozen 2 for the first time while I was recovering, and they also tested me for COVID before surgery, so at least I know I'm for sure not infected. For now, anyway.
Edited by danime91 on Jul 20th 2020 at 8:40:37 AM
Couldn't resist to mention this cleverly titled article: The clinician’s guide to the anti-vaccinationists’ galaxy. AKA how and why anti-vaccinationists' beliefs are false. Note that this article is primarily about discussing their errors, not on why they hold these beliefs.
Hey I have a question, my father recently started getting headaches whenever he tries working out, he describes them has throbbing with a stiff neck and lasting around an hour with no other symptoms, ibuprofen also seems to work after a bit, anyone have any ideas what might be causing it?
Could be loads of things, or nothing in particular.
What he needs is a check-up, maybe even tests to rule various issues out. In short: if it doesn't ease up in the next couple of weeks or, heaven forfend, things get worse, he needs to see a doctor.
He's just scheduled a doctor's appointment today, so there's that.
Edit: Wait, he doesn't know if he'll do that now because the doctors aren't personally seeing anybody, they'll only do it online.
Edited by Kaiseror on Jul 27th 2020 at 9:47:03 AM
Disclaimer, I'm taking a wild guess here. Could it be dehydration? What and how much does your dad drink before and during exercise, and what and how much liquid does he use to wash down the ibuprofen?
Edited by Miss_Desperado on Jul 27th 2020 at 8:57:28 AM
If not for this anchor I'd be dancing between the stars. At least I can try to write better vampire stories than Twilight.
He drinks a good deal of water, he's never had a problem with dehydration. I'm personally leaning towards it just being a case of primary exertion headaches which eventually go away on their own. However, my brother thinks that he'll still do the online doctor appointment or at least call about it.
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
Random amusing note.
So in my country, there has been a (thankfully short lived) panic about flu vaccine causing deaths. After that panic ended I asked my mother, who is a professor of pharmacology, what she thought about this whole stupidity.
Then she said she didn't care anyway, because it turned out she never got any kind of vaccinations for almost a decade. Naturally, I was totally surprised at this and asked her why, to which she just replied that she had a fear of needles. ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Oh, bother.
Hey, don’t make light of a fear of needles.
I nearly get panic attacks when I have to get shots or get blood drawn.
Disgusted, but not surprised
And there's a reason why the Alien question completely ignored the issue of how the Chestburster could possibly exist within the chest cavity to begin with, instead assuming for convenience that it's somehow possible and that no macroscopic damage is done to the body until the Chestburster starts its attempts to "hatch" from the host (signified by said host suffering rapidly worsening chest pains and the resulting convulsions and other symptoms).
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.