Marvel Cinematic Universe

Their approach to being beholden to the time travel rules from a completely different studio’s movies is probably going to… not to be beholden to those rules at all, yeah.

It'd be fine if they put their foot down and say "Loki allowing the multiverse to exist means all forms of time travel retroactively always existed."

Isn't that TVA's job but now they're stuck with Multiverse clean up.

I haven't watched Loki, but is what people have said that Loki ends up creating the multiverse (so he's indirectly responsible for the X-men, Spider-Man, Amazing Spider-Man, Sony and Spider-Verse films) true? If so, that's cool.

Edited by king15 on Apr 24th 2024 at 8:05:39 AM

The thing about Loki "creating" the multiverse is that it was the only thing that established there wasn't a multiverse to begin with. So it's a net sum of zero.

In general, I’ve always found that as long as different types of time travel have different sources, it’s fine. Like, if you use a certain kind of magic you can change the past, if you use science you go to another timeline, etc

That said, I do think they shot themselves in the foot somewhat with how they had time travel work in Endgame. It’s definitely the easiest take on time travel for the audience to understand and allows the characters to get into timeline shenanigans without having to worry about any consequences whatsoever, but no consequences runs both ways and it’s one of the worst ways for having time travel have any drama or having the adventure really matter in itself, which may be why ever single later MCU time travel story has changed the rules either partially or entirely.

In any case, though, even if they hadn’t done that I don’t think they should’ve ever had to worry about Days of Future Past’s rules. They didn’t make that movie, nor did they make anything in the MCU to be beholden to that movie in the first place - they’ve only recently decided to use some of its characters.

So the best solution would be to just not bother.

Looking back, I realized how freakishly inconsistent xmen was as movies in a timeline. There are two Emma Frosts, somehow Sabretooth and Wolverine were on good terms until the first movie where the suddenly act like they never recognize each other, Prof X met Wolverine for the first time twice, and Peter Dinklage was definitely not a black man of average height in the original trilogy.

Not even mentioning the multiple timelines branching and even then, events from what are purported supposed to be part of the original timeline’s backstory are still like its set in an entirely different universe.

I'm still surprised that Loki became a true god, and wasn't just a low-level super with a huge ego.

Edited by Luisdalas on Apr 24th 2024 at 3:08:16 AM

Self-actualization is a wonderful thing

To be fair, that's straight out of the comics. Time travel in Marvel is supposed to create alternate timelines, although writers ignore this when something else suits the story.

If writers keep make different versions of it, then it's probably safe to say that time travel isn't "supposed' to do anything specific in the comics.

Cable and Bishop, for example, are two of Marvel's biggest time travelers, and if time travel only ever creates alternate timelines then most of their stories just stop making sense.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 24th 2024 at 4:23:22 AM

Well comics days of future past is now an alternate universe with a numerical designation

When you get Cable, you start to time travel. When you start to time travel, you create alternate timelines. When you create alternate timelines, your stories stop making sense. When your stories stop making sense, other writers will start making up their own shit. When writers start making up their own shit, everything implodes. When everything implodes, viewers stop caring. When viewers stop caring, you lose your Cinematic Universe. When you lose your Cinematic Universe, you move to South Dakota and change your name to Fred.

Don't move to South Dakota and change your name to Fred. Get rid of Cable.

Ooooh, I'm like, this close to remembering what it is you're referencing. A commerical, right?

Speaking of Cable I wish he came back to interact with the TVA.

Yep. It was a series of DirectTV ads from 2012.

At some point, there'd be a TVA agent asking himself "Man, why does this dude sound like so many of the Thanos variants we've had to arrest?"

Hey, I remember those commercials! Deep cut there.

All this stuff is why I don't like time travel as a plot device. It works when it's the main thing a story does, like Quantum Leap or Doctor Who.

But that ship sailed a long time ago. Time travel was established in Endgame, and it's here to stay.

I for one actually think time travel works best when it's a gameplay mechanic, something that, to mention Sonic CD really quick, nailed it, making it optional, and thus a great way of experiencing worldbuilding without words. Show, don't tell.

Going back into Marvel territory, more specifically Deadpool, I was not expecting Kevin Feige to be so... willing to allow himself to be implemented as a punchline... further than that giant robot thing in She-Hulk, that is. His last name's brought up, and it's about cocaine now being off the table, including "Building A Snowman".

What about time travel being used for more diverse level themes?

That's kinda like Final Fantasy XIII-2

Or Chrono Trigger.

But that ties back into my earlier point that it works best when the whole work revolves around it from the start as opposed to something introduced later.

Though, honestly, I don't think they even knew they were going to have an MCU at the beginning, when they did Iron Man 1. They've always added more shit incrementally, and let's be honest, if you're Marvel, needing to turn your fortunes around, being at rock bottom, the nadir of your existence, facing destruction and implosion... I don't think your first priority with the Robert Downey Jr. movie is gonna be "...So let's throw time travelling into the mix."

I generally think people are too hard on time travel as a concept, mostly because writers have a habit of using it as a crutch to write badly or inconsistently, and viewers have long since kind of internalized the idea that the bad or inconsistent writing is the concept’s fault, rather than the writers’.