Marvel Cinematic Universe

So apparently in the Wakanda Files thing, it reveals that Hydra primarily experimented on Sokovia because it was reported that certain sects of the population had "genetic oddities."

And since Pietro & Wanda were the only survivors there..... hmmmmh.

Depends on which Hulk personality we're talking about.

Except not at all. Devil Hulk fancies himself as Banner's protector and mainly goes after people that hurt Bruce.

Ultimate Hulk is nothing like that.

It wasn't that long since we last saw a Red Hulk.

And if you mean Ross specifically, well look at the cover for Captain America 26.

Brought up by Devil Hulk. He states that Banner can in fact reign in the other Hulks.

Him not so much, since he said this as he was killing the Shadow Base mercs that came after him and were killing civilians.

Him Absorbing/"eating" a guy was before his.

Except we saw the event in question in the pages of Fantastic Four which showed that A) Nobody died and B) it happened because he was helping SHIELD clear out a cache of Gamma Bombs that Hydra had and unfortunately the detonated and the radiation messed Hulk up.

He was also Gravage Hulk at the time.

Edited by Cortez on Oct 25th 2020 at 7:40:36 AM

I made a mistake, I meant the Maestro (even though a lot less smart).

As for Red Hulk returning, alas, it's a good thing I don't read comics anymore then. Their quality has been on a steady decline for quite some time now, sadly.

As for the Vegas rampage, the later Illuminati tie-in specifically said 26 people were killed.

Edited by Forenperser on Oct 25th 2020 at 12:40:06 PM

Here's an article on the whole thing.

But yeah, it was Bendis who added the people dying because Hulk's rampage in Vegas

While in the Fantastic Four story, the only deaths were because of the Gamma Bomb that blew up.

And Hulk was there because SHIELD asked for his help. Which kinda makes it seem like SHIELD is just throwing Hulk under the bus since the 26 casualty report came from them.

Edited by Cortez on Oct 25th 2020 at 12:40:09 PM

At any rate, while I personally don't condone what the Illuminati did, and think that they were a bunch of highly-hypocritical, self-righteous and outright murderous assholes themselves, I still think what they did was understandable from an in-universe point of view. The Vegas rampage wasn't the only reason, it was just the straw that broke the camels back. Point is, Hulk is not evil (which they themselves also never said) but there is no denying that he is a constantly ticking time bomb and a huge danger to people around him, willingly or not.

Edited by Forenperser on Oct 25th 2020 at 12:56:58 PM

Not to mention that this was during Civil War. If anything, the Illuminati was doing him a favor by sending him away from Earth.

At many points, Banner would willingly put himself in a rocket to be shipped away to a planet where Hulk wouldn't hurt others, and even several Hulk incarnations would just go happily with being sent somewhere where puny humans would leave him in peace. You only need to ask.

See Age of Ultron

×2

But they didn't, they instead tricked him which was part of the issue.

He was completely on board with Green Scar's war against the Illuminati after all.

Edited by Cortez on Oct 25th 2020 at 12:39:16 PM

The Illuminati is a bad idea if you want these characters to be sympathetic and the characters they put in the Illuminati were all borderline assholes already and didn't need this on their resume too.

And yet Hulk later became part of the Illuminati himself.

That's because Marvel wants all their heroes to be assholes with rap sheets a mile wide for some reason.

Like, there's barely a single character, from Captain America, to probably even Kamala Khan, who hasn't done something questionable at some point.

I'm half joking with Kamala (since she left the Avengers due to dissatisfaction with how they were acting post CWII), but it also wouldn't surprise me either, because they seem to think such things make them more interesting.

Granted, by now Marvel and DC are pretty much equals at that.

At least DC has a finger on the reset button and a willingness to go "that didn't happen", compared to Marvel, in where many heroes should be in their own prison or just be persona non grata in any team they might have been part of.

Edited by Blueace on Oct 25th 2020 at 4:05:48 PM

Honestly I think the worst thing Wonder Woman’s done is snapping Maxwell Lord’s neck compared to the various acts of psychopathy & sadism done by Carol.

Yes. I've said it before and I'll say it again: making them somewhat imperfect is ok.

But they are still heroes. You need to remember that, otherwise....what the hell is the point.

Realism enhances the fantasy, but too much taints it....if you can call some of what happens realism.

As I grow older and cynical and learn more about comics creators I have to wonder if it's not a matter of many of them being unable to identify with people who aren't jerks or worse.

Shit it’s not like Superman’s ever been turned into a Nazi to my recollection.

Granted Truth was pretty bad but not as bad as the whole Secret Empire biz.

And most of the time these acts happen in association with events

Minus civil war 2 the worst Carol does is try to kick the shit out of Rogue almost everytime she sees her. Which is almost halfway justified as a feeling if not an action

Also she’s murdered a couple people but in “gotta do a murder to save lives” way

Captain America has also had his dickish moments, most notably in Avengers vs X-Men, where Tony even said that Steve reminded him on himself during Civil War.

Also, he was ALSO a member of the Illuminati (even though, granted, they kicked him out because he had moral objections to the stuff they were doing later).

There is virtually no hero who has never ever held the Jerkass Ball, I dare say.

Edited by Forenperser on Oct 25th 2020 at 8:15:03 PM

It's probably the modern-day equivalent to Superdickery: have a character make a morally dubious decision in an attempt to bolster sales, rely on outrage and comic press reporting said outrage for publicity, than quietly scale back the assholeness once the sales numbers go down.

While this may seem profitable in the short-term, in the long-term this just alienates fans who don't like to see their favourite heroes acting like total assholes and just drives them away from the books.

Doc Green to be specific.

Is it weird that I wished all the Illuminati members had green uniforms to really sell that yes, they're the Illuminati?

Dot dot dot ok but why green though?

Real life illuminati members wear greenscreens from head to toe so that they can hide by replacing the green with the surrounding imagery.