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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
People will find reasons not to or the republicans will vote in larger numbers like they did last time.
Edited by Kaiseror on Jul 20th 2018 at 2:17:56 PM
@Charles Phipps- I'm glad you were enlightened, but I wonder (well maybe not, given Sanders himself) why it is that the Sanders supporters who don't think Clinton were insufficiently left don't account at all for anything non-economic (or even only account for specific economic policies), and totally buy into the idea that Trump voters were motivated by "economic anxiety"?
Edited by Hodor2 on Jul 20th 2018 at 2:19:43 PM
The law in the night
Remember kids. Trade Wars good.
It totally isn't going to fuck up the US export sector.
Or under the words of Trump's secretaries our tariffs are fair and theirs isn't!!!
Inter arma enim silent leges
Oh, bother.
Because it lets them hold on to the delusion that their neighbors aren't racists.
so i made a new avatar
RE: voting one's conscience:
This, to me, is a good example of what I've been calling "Left-Wing Damsel Syndrome". A significant portion of the Left wants a young Knight in Shining Armor with flowing, golden, socialist locks, riding a white stallion, to come and save them from the Republicans, to whisk them away from their room in the Trump Tower, promising free college, legal marijuana, and universal healthcare when they return home. That's what they're looking for. So naturally, when they look outside their window and all they see is Joe Incumbent in his stagecoach, who has the exact same goal of rescuing the Damsel in mind, and promises to give her most of the same things, they turn their nose up at them and say they're not good enough.
This is one of the main things we need to overcome if we want that wave to happen. All poo-pooing about candidates being "insufficiently Left" or holding out for candidates that share your views to the letter accomplishes is more Republican butts in seats. Because no matter how you look at it, the Right does not have this problem. If it means keeping Dems out of the White House, the Right will vote Republican no matter who the candidate is. Even in 2016 there were a great many people that weren't really fans of Trump, but hated Clinton so much that they voted for her just to keep her out of the Oval Office. I don't know how many Trump voters were such people, but clearly they far outnumbered those willing to do the same for Clinton.
So to anyone whose reason for voting third-party/not voting at all in the Midterms and 2020 is "the Dem candidate didn't make me feel good", my response is "too fucking bad." This isn't about you; it's about the future of the country. If we want to even have a chance of stopping the rise of fascism in the US, and its possible destruction, you're gonna have to get over yourself, bite the bullet, and vote for whatever Dem candidate is picked to run against their Republican opponent.
To pity someone is to tell them "I feel bad about being better than you."
On my end, I think it was the case of believing America was better than that. The economic issues are so prevalent and so devastating, the idea Americans would be so hateful as to want to hurt Mexicans and blacks more than they would to feed their children is a horrifying idea that it took repeated doubling down by Trump on to make it clear...yes, they did.
It's a nasty nasty thing.
Mind you, I do think all poor people need to elevated from poverty whether they're black, white, or made of candy.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 20th 2018 at 12:20:13 PM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
so i made a new avatar
...and the second she lost, he fucked the Democrats and has been shading them ever since. So yeah, what has he done for me lately?
To pity someone is to tell them "I feel bad about being better than you."
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
Again, I'm pretty sure Phipp is talking about primaries, where your vote is Democrat vs Democrat. I disagree with him, but stop treating this argument like it's about voting Democrat vs Republican, you're only confusing yourself and him.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jul 20th 2018 at 12:22:41 PM
Oh, bother.
This whole line of conversation started because someone here — who didn't bother to vote in 2016 btw — said they were "resigned" to voting third party in 2020 because apparently they had no faith whatsoever in the Democratic Party's candidate. The one that hasn't been chosen yet.
And Charles encouraged this.
Edited by M84 on Jul 21st 2018 at 3:29:05 AM
Disgusted, but not surprised
I feel like at this point it should be obvious there's no real point to talking with Charles Phipps or Troper On A Stick V 2 about this particular subject. Neither of them is going to budge.
Edited by LSBK on Jul 20th 2018 at 2:32:14 PM
@M84
About two or three pages back, I said there was no point discussing any of this because any sane person would vote for a blind goat if it wasn't Republican in 2020.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 20th 2018 at 12:33:19 PM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Oh, bother.
You also made a lengthy post about how voting for the "lesser evil" is wrong and how you should never vote for a candidate who doesn't wholly represent you. Also something about Bill Clinton.
Disgusted, but not surprised
Constantly contributing to a narrative of "Dems suck, and you shouldn't feel bad about not voting for them if you feel they don't represent you" is not helping, either.
I agree with that still.
It's troubling as I acknowledge it makes me a hypocrite but I can't resolve it either. Because I don't believe you should vote for people who don't represent you. Yet, Trump is so appalling that if I don't then it's benefiting them.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
I don't believe you shouldn't vote under any circumstances. I believe that voting should be mandatory. I believe that not voting is an awful, cowardly, ugly thing to do, and anyone who does it is a bad person.
Disasturbator
Maybe they should start fining people for not voting like in Australia
New theme music also a box
BBC is reporting Trump used to throw cocaine parties with underage models in attendance, btw.
A couple years ago I would have thought that was an extremely unfair and "fascist" thing to do but now, not so much.
Edited by Kaiseror on Jul 20th 2018 at 2:59:48 PM
I don't. I think you have a right to abstain.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 20th 2018 at 1:03:17 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
The Mod with the Migraine
Oh, bother.
At the very least make Election Day a public holiday or something.
Edited by M84 on Jul 20th 2018 at 4:06:47 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
Here's an article I just found on why Tuesday was decided as voting day in the U.S.
Bottom line: Much like the Electoral College, this seems to be a badly dated thing and logically it should be changed. But Republicans will have none of that for obvious reasons.
Untrustworthy
It's frankly wild to me that Voting Day isn't a national holiday for the US, considering what a big deal y'all make of being Proud to be a Democracy.
Edited by Gilphon on Jul 20th 2018 at 4:25:26 AM
"Canada Day is over, and now begins the endless dark of the Canada Night."
Disasturbator
Business would complain about the lost productivity,but screw em,people are overworked enough as it is
New theme music also a box
"I think Hillary dealt in half measures."
Hillary dealt in achievable goals. It's important to realize that there's a huge amount of creative destruction going on in a political sense. Trump chainsawing so many American sociopolitical norms means that policies unthinkable in 2015 are suddenly doable or even desirable in 2018. In the context of the time, what she proposed would have done the country a lot of good — including the poor, who wouldn't be facing an ominous international marketplace, the possibility of Obamacare being undermined, an educational system utterly mismanaged by Betsy De Vos, and a Supreme Court that took a hatchet to labor law. But what she proposed wasn't mealy mouthed just because Bernie tried to one-up her without any thought to political will and cost.
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."