The General US Politics Thread

The problem isn't really the administration, at least not here, it's a product of a Senate majority that has very little to offer because it's stuck with the same gridlock that has consumed the institution for years. As long as they don't solve that gridlock it's going to continue to not amount to much.

An administration that can’t get anything done cause of gridlock is still an administration that is useless.

By that definition, it will be a long time before an administration is not useless. Therefore, I will claim it as not a useful metric.

I don't think you understand how our separation of powers works, it's not the Executive that is facing gridlock. It's the Senate.

Therefore the Senate is what's useless, the administration has done useful Executive Orders and engaged with foreign policy decisions.

The administration isn't blameless in this. Biden and Harris have power in this fight. They're choosing not to use it.

Edited by TheRoguePenguin on Feb 26th 2021 at 1:15:11 AM

An article was *just* posted on how they're doing just that.

And I don't wanna hear how it doesn't count because they;re not using that power in the way you want them to.

I made this argument already but others made good points. Manchin supports the Parliamentarian, and thus using their power would not solve the issue. It would just jeopardize the stimulus.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 26th 2021 at 1:20:31 AM

Yeah while Harris has the nuclear option of overruling the parliamentarian her using it might cause Manchin to nuke back and scupper the entire bill.

Harris has no power to take away Manchin’s ability to fuck every bill and nomination if he decides to do so.

Biden has no formal power in this fight.

Edited by Silasw on Feb 26th 2021 at 9:21:12 AM

Yes, Manchin is a blue dog who loves being contrary, not denying that. But as it stands right now, he's getting cover because this administration won't act, rather than having the onus put on him for blocking relief.

Frankly as annoyed as I can be with Manchin and other blue dogs at times, I trust them more than any republican and also feel that unlike them, they are perfectly willing to debate in good faith.

I think the problem with this argument is that it assumes that the possibility of Manchin getting pressured is significant enough to be worth the risk of it sinking the entire stimulus.

I don't think the evidence bears it out, Manchin has had no problem very publicly criticizing the $15 minimum wage despite its very strong popularity.

Should we really risk stimulus on the off chance that he'll suddenly start caring about what the people think?

I think even if they are in good-faith they're still supporting a profoundly destructive position vis a vis the filibuster and thus it doesn't matter.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 26th 2021 at 1:27:03 AM

You think Harris should risk Democrats entire legislative agenda on a bet that Manchin will fall in line with her overruling the senate parliamentarian?

Because it would be crazy enough to risk the entire COVID relief bill, but an angry Manchin could kill more than that. If he stopped caucusing with the Democrats the senate majority is gone, alongside the ability to propose bill, appoint judges or even appoint cabinet member.

If we were three months away from the midterm I’d be tempted to say go for it, but if Harris pisses Manchin of we could end up with no cabinet.

We work with the Senate we've got, not the Senate we want.

I'm not sure that dictating positions to an entire party can be considered to be "in good faith".

It's possible we can make this an issue in the midterms by making the minimum wage a stand alone bill and let the Republicans vote against it. It'll require Democratic politicians, activists, and left leaning media to really push the message as Republican stonewalling as opposed to the traditional Do Nothing Congress, but it can be done.

I desperately hope you're right.

Being the swing vote gives you a certain amount of authority. That's how democracy works.

If we can get two gains in 2022 (difficult but not impossible) then Manchin and Sinema can be jettisoned with impunity - which is also good faith.

The quandry there is we are more likely to make those gains if the Democrats can push through policy priorities, and that is unlikely as long as people like Manchin are able to wield their vote like a veto. Catch-22.

I agree that Sinema should be primaried, her state is purple she has no excuse.

But Manchin is leaving anyway so there's nothing we can with him.

Sadly this is completely right.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 26th 2021 at 1:50:26 AM

By "jettisoned," I mean cut out of the decision-making process because they no longer have the power to stop the Veep from exercising her full authority and murdering the filibuster.

Right now they need to get the COVID relief bill passed and Biden’s cabinet approved, then I think they need to see if they can get Manchin to agree that adding a state is different from legislating so it shouldn’t be subject to a filibuster.

Then they add DC, swear in two Democrat senators from DC and have them vote to abolish the regular filibuster.

And Manchin is undoubtedly going to be replaced by a Republican, so we need to win even more seats just to keep what we already have when he retires.

I think you're completely right. If we could do that then it would actually make positive change possible.

Ah, fair enough. Well in that case I think we should

"I desperately hope you're right."

I pray everyday I am.

It's probably worth remembering that minimum wage increase or no, this is a huge bill. It's going to have a very large effect on people's lives and the economy for the near future. 538 was saying that one of the reasons it's still being worked on is because Biden's is economists are really trying to make sure money actually gets to the poor, minorities, women, and others who have been overwhelmingly affected by the pandemic. For better or worse this will be Biden's economy after it passes, and how well it's doing will be an important factor in the midterms.

That's an excellent point, it's not all bad.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 26th 2021 at 2:22:48 AM