The General US Politics Thread

I think Bernie is the only person other than Warren offering solutions.

[Double post]

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jan 14th 2020 at 3:56:44 AM

Yup. Bernies whole thing is to point out a particular thing that could be a barrier (gender, race) and somehow always of nearly always discuss this barrier in a tone deaf at best way, and at worst the most insulting way possible.

And some are clutching their pearls like he would NEVER say such a thing.

This is literally the same guy who was dumb enough to believe most drug dealers were black FIVE years ago. Or wrote rape essays. Or said he was a bigger feminist than his own female opponent decades ago.

I could go on and on. But I know it’d be wasted text. I’m glad he’s losing

Young black voters are for Bernie over Biden: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nidhiprakash/bernie-sanders-college-tour-black-voters

And Bernie's racial voting record is solid: https://www.thestate.com/opinion/article239206718.html

As that recent story demonstrated though, he hasn't really improved that much. In both the "not making tone-deaf statements" department and the "apologizing for making tone-deaf statements" department.

Edited by M84 on Jan 14th 2020 at 7:59:50 PM

How is he losing exactly? Compared to Biden? Sure, unfortunately. But he is still polling higher than Warren.

That’s, literally, by definition losing. If you’re not in first place.

Yeah, but there is nothing to be glad about, since Warren isn't winning either.

Unless you think that Biden is better than both of them.

And once the field narrows down further, and especially once either Warren or Bernie drop out, then Biden's lead might not be as solid as it seems.

"Losing" is also a very loaded way to describe a race that's very much not over. I'd say losing in this context would mean that the candidate's chances are steadily approaching zero, rather than just being behind with all to play for.

Edited by GoldenKaos on Jan 14th 2020 at 12:08:25 PM

On another topic for a sec, anyone else deeply concerned about the mad rush to switch to touch screen ballots instead of paper ballots? Mother Jones has a piece on just how unreliable they are.

Sadly, I think proponents of the TSBs are operating under the Sunk Cost Fallacy: "We paid all this money for these touch screens, we're gonna use 'em, no matter how easily they can be hacked or how unverifiable they are."

Edited by speedyboris on Jan 14th 2020 at 6:18:09 AM

Sanders' record is full of questionable things, including on race. He ignored black activists in Vermont, voted for the crime bill and there are legions of clips of him dismissing racial issues while saying the true issue in America is class.

Do I believe he said something shitty offhand and forgot about it? Yes. Do I also imagine that Warren's staffers, particulary the ones who used to work for Clinton, outright hate him and leaked this to damage him? Absolutely.

Though the idea Sanders is honorable in campaigning is questionable. His campaign in 2016 was dirty from the get go and got worse as it went on. And despite the 'non-aggression pact', his op surrogates have been attacking Warren constantly. Nina Turner, one of the top employees in Sanders' campaign was all but decrying her as 'not a progressive.'

I'd vote for him if he won, but Sanders made his own bed.

Also, Biden has been in the lead for almost this entire primary. He's the frontrunner and he is dominating the support he needs to win. Yes, younger black voters support Bernie, but older black voters? They break for Biden and that's the key voting block

Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 14th 2020 at 6:21:17 AM

In an ideal world, electronic balloting would be a no-brainer. Saves costs, much more convenient for voters, etc. Heck, even in-person voting is kind of stale as a concept. But we don't live in an ideal world, and the security risks are just too high, never mind the issue of verifying those votes.

It is just flat-out weird to me that mail-in voting isn't commonplace outside of Colorado.

Every election, we receive our ballots in the mail. It comes with a thick booklet that summarizes every state ballot measure being voted on in the ballot alongside the federal and state elections. The booklet explains in neutral language what the bill does, provides comprehensive pro and con arguments for voting for it, and closes with the actual text of the bill in case you want to peruse more than a summary.

This is sent to us a couple months in advance, and we can mail or drop off our ballots at our leisure. We do have in-person polling booths if you're untrusting of the mail-in system, don't have a mailing address, or aer just old-fashioned, but they're not overstuffed because only some people use them.

For years, I thought this was totally normal. Like, I thought it was federal practice, not state practice. And now at every election, I am shocked that other states haven't adopted this practice.

https://twitter.com/hctrudo/status/1217085352487407616?s=21

But yeah he totally wouldn’t lie about things he said in the past

Florida has very lenient mail in ballots, too, actually.

Another thing about this Sanders/Warren camp feud I see as problematic? The complete disappearance of any organizing principle. How do people think this plays out in the next five years? How do you organize for future campaigns when you burn bridges?

There's a huge problem for me in that the far left has decided to see the liberal or even center left as the enemy.

Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 14th 2020 at 7:15:57 AM

x2 But wait, Warren did abandon M4A (at least from what I've read). She's now saying that choice is important and that she wants to start with just a Public Plan. Now personally I'm fine with either option, but I don't think that Sanders is lying in this situation.

Okay that would be a lie then. Unless the Sanders campaign knew in advance (and they almost certainly wouldn't have).

Edited by DingoWalley1 on Jan 14th 2020 at 10:20:15 AM

Here's the Daily Beast article referenced in that tweet:

Warren and Sanders’ Famous Friendship Finally Ices Over

It was incorrect back in early November, which is when that happened. So the Sanders campaign was lying at the time. Warren shifted her stance in December.

Edited by M84 on Jan 14th 2020 at 11:21:46 PM

Warren never backed off M 4 A. She said "We need to get there, I have a plan how," and maybe it's not the 'all or nothing' we frequently see from Sanders' camp, but that's not equivalent.

We really shouldn't be too surprised this is happening. Warren and Bernie really aren't that different. And when you can't make a big argument on policy differences this close to Iowa, things start getting personal.

You listen to staffers from '08 and things got famously ugly between Obama and Clinton. Obama's future UN ambassador called Clinton a monster straight to the media. All because they couldn't think of a good way to stand out from each other on criminal justice or whatever.

There Can Be Only One I guess.

Edited by M84 on Jan 14th 2020 at 11:47:25 PM

At this point, while I still prefer Sanders, I'd rather see him drop out and endorse Warren to unify their bases instead of continuing this senseless infighting.

That's not going to happen though. Sanders will not drop out as long as he thinks he has a chance to win.

And his chances of winning right now are higher than Warren's.

Edited by Parable on Jan 14th 2020 at 7:56:42 AM

Well the other way around would work too off course.

Hell, he might stay on past the point where he doesn't have a chance. He stayed in after Clinton had enough delegates locked down, I could easily see him holding on if Biden or Warren stage a break away.