Metal Gear/ Metal Gear Solid

Yeah, Metal Gear Solid 3 not having actual gameplay footage RN is another reason why I'm not really excited for this one.

Still, I hope the studio can deliver, I'm not buying it, but I know lots of people who want to play the game.

Edited by RedHunter543 on May 28th 2023 at 9:50:06 PM

Given Konami's tendency towards risk aversion, Virtuos might make some sense. Get a competent enough studio to do the necessary graphical and QOL changes without any expectation of new major gameplay inclusions or heavy reworking of the core engine. Even beyond the potential controversy of meddling too much with Kojima's work, MGS 3 may be seen as something that only needs a few rough edges sanded down rather than outright remade.

Do we want MGS V-style gameplay or just touched-up MGS 3 gameplay?

MGS 3 gameplay preferably.

You can't possibly have MGSV style gameplay in the setting of MGS 3.

Edited by RedHunter543 on May 28th 2023 at 10:04:40 PM

MGS 3 moves for Snake, but using the button inputs from V would be good compromise.

If the remake is successful and doesn't change the design, we might finally see a remake of 1 that can be faithful to its gameplay. Question is now if Virtuos is stretching itself with the master collection too.

Hopefully not. I know anytime I complain about wasting resources on a remaster someone always tells me that it's not really the case.

The PS 3 collection for 2, 3, and Peace Walker was decent.

When you say "they can finally do a remake of 1" are you discounting Twin Snakes? I thought that one was decent... even if it was the John Woo-ified version of Metal Gear and they couldn't get Gray Fox's VA back, the gameplay was fine.

(2) I don't know. 3 allows for wide environments, biomes, animals. I feel like its the only one in the series that would allow for something similar to V.

Edited by FOFD on May 29th 2023 at 9:23:58 AM

Rob Paulson was great as Grey Fox.

I think the old VA is there, he's just playing Donald Anderson only this time.

Oh no, I thought he was fine, I just remember one of the criticisms being that Gray Fox's voice was different. Greg Eagles did have a distinct performance.

Yeah but I think I like Paulson better personally.

Speaking off, I'm still weirded out by the fact Donald Anderson is actually Sigint. Yeah it was a retcon as part of a speed run to end the series but damn it's bizarre.

Hah, MGS 4 does that.

I remember as a teen going "ah ok, that makes sense I guess" because I hadn't replayed MGS 1 in a while. The one that weirded me out is Para-Medic being Dr. Clark the one who tortured Frank Jaeger.

Like, I really want a game or a cutscene or a fanfic showing how the knowledgable, movie-obsessed, warm-hearted Para-Medic became the cold, reclusive doctor performing unethical cloning experiments.

It is weird seeing a Patriot be so hands-on that he'd actually go to Shadow Moses.

Huh. In MGS 2, "In The Darkness of Shadow Moses" (by Nastasha Romenenko) Arc Welds Liquid to have been plotting against the Patriots in MGS 1. I wonder if he knew Donald Anderson was one? (Though it does work out pretty well that Ocelot "accidentally" killed him)

Edited by diddyknux on May 29th 2023 at 8:53:03 AM

Considering Liquid's reaction, he probably didn't know Anderson was Sigint or one of the leaders of the Patriots.

It's on brand for Liquid since he just isn't very knowledgeable in general.

Well I imagine Kojima had the idea to reveal the charming cast of MGS 3's radio calls were the minds behind the Patriots since there are several clues.

"Who are the Patriots?" "The la-li-lu-le-lo." The fact that Para-Medic mentions Snake would make a great cloning subject, AND Major Zero having a scar in his face like Blofeld.

Edited by RedHunter543 on May 29th 2023 at 9:59:29 PM

I think Para-Medic and Sigint stuck with Zero because he gave them real, fair chances to work for him at a time when most anywhere else would overlook them. And as Zero slipped further from morals in pursuit of his goals, so too did they. So the MGS 3 crew becoming the Patriots and going on to do some of the questionable and eventually just wrong things they do never felt like it was too big a stretch to me.

I think my problem is less that it's OOC ( I agree with your logic.) and more it makes the world feel smaller if the world controlling conspiracy turned out to be former support staff for Big Boss.

It was a speed run to the finish line though.

Edited by RedHunter543 on May 29th 2023 at 10:10:51 PM

By contrast, I actually like The Reveal because it makes it clear the Patriots are full of bullshit. They're not actually a world dominating The Illuminati but a bunch of soldiers and their support staff who stole a trillion dollars equivalent. They use it to build a bunch of crazy technology and influence the USA.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 29th 2023 at 8:27:10 AM

Well either way, the Patriot A.I.s were already in control of the organization and doing a better job of fucking up the country than the MGS 3 crew.

If the Patriots aren't in as control of the USA at least, then it does make Johnson look even more stupid for his whole plan with Solidus.

On other news you can preorder the MGS board game here by CMON if anyone is interested.

Apparently IDW games was going to do it but I guess something went wrong so it went to CMON. I REALLY want the renders of the artwork by Marco Checchetto

Edited by M1gamiTensei on May 29th 2023 at 11:19:32 AM

Their lack of control can actually be shown by the fact the President goes seriously off the rails (twice) despite both nominally being under their control. They can influence but not dominate.

Granted, the President did realize every thing he did was part of the simulation since even going off the rails was part of the Patriot's plan

And I still firmly believe MGS 2 was supposed to be a computer simulation till we got MGS 4 since it's the only way any of it could make sense.

But enough about the VR theory. Sometimes I wonder what the hell Kojima was even planning on accomplishing with MGS 2.

I think Kojima was actually upfront with the idea the whole point of MSG 2 was meant to be a Mind Screw. It's about the relationship between video game players and their characters, much like Bioshock or Spec Ops the Line, rather than meant to be a literal narrative.

Allow me to break it down:

• Raiden/The Player wants to be a badass like Solid Snake.
• Raiden claims his simulations of being a badass make him a badass.
• Raiden is NOT a badass.
• The game is actually a bunch of artificial parameters controlled by the developers/The Patriots.
• Much is made about society taking for granted the way things work due to entertainment.
• Raiden eventually remembers that war is actually horrifying and terrible due to his past.

Kojima actually never intended to answer any of this because it's not about the in-universe stuff, it's about information and shaping opinion through a video game.

Except fans assumed it was like Lost or the X-Files and a big mystery to solve.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 29th 2023 at 12:49:02 PM

Yeah that makes sense but I'm talking about the computer simulation theory in a sense that it's a reference to the fact that it's a video game. Like for example, the President's actions are meant to be rebelling against the Patriots but then he realizes he was just doing his role all along is a reference to the fact that he's a video game character with no agency.

Yeah I get Kojima wanted us to think about the themes from the story, that's why all the story is nonsense, and we have to draw our own conclusions as to what the characters and themes can teach us. The memes.

Ah, got it.

Yeah, Kojima REALLY wanted to hammer it home to the player that questions like who are the patriots doesn't matter because it's a video game and what we should be thinking about are the characters and themes of the story like the dangers of the digital age and misinformation.

But of course, most people come for the story first, not the themes and analysis. And the fact that MGS 2 was ahead of it's time.

Really I think that speaks to what I think Kojima's general strengths were. He always did themes and broader societal commentary really well, and MGS 2 being so eerily prescient speaks to how much deep thought he put into the franchise. It is something that as the series went on I felt like came at the expense of more consistent characterization and world building (the antagonists in the series felt like they got less interesting as the games went on) but given what his focus was it does make sense.

If they remake Sons of Liberty, it will be insane if you can replay the Big Shell but in Snake's perspective. Thats what I thought Snake tales should have been

Edited by M1gamiTensei on May 29th 2023 at 3:09:52 AM