o-o
Hey.
ᐅᖃᐅᓯᖅ ᐊᑕᐅᓯᖅ ᓈᒻᒪᔪᐃᑦᑐᖅ
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Whoa, really?
One just might
A majority are not actually.
If a chicken crosses the road and nobody else is around to see it, does the road move beneath the chicken instead?
o-o
Fwoosh: Yarp!
ᐅᖃᐅᓯᖅ ᐊᑕᐅᓯᖅ ᓈᒻᒪᔪᐃᑦᑐᖅ
Dog and Pony Show
Don't you mean "Yarr"?
@Zersky: Well, I guess the Koran really is just as open to interpretation as the Bible...
Writer of horse words
I'm finding it slightly less cryptic about certain things, though maybe that's because it's shorter and the earlier chapters are a bit more strait to the point.
The Qur'an certainly doesn't seem to spend as much time with old stories of the forefathers of the religion. Not that I've seen, yet anyway.
On the other hand, people do like to occasionally take single verses and make interpretations of them without considering the surrounding context, so people do treat the book similarly to The Bible.
Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
o-o
Fwoosh: Yep! :3 It is religion after all. :P
Rotty: Yarr, I be no Musselman Raider!
ᐅᖃᐅᓯᖅ ᐊᑕᐅᓯᖅ ᓈᒻᒪᔪᐃᑦᑐᖅ
@Zersky: You know what I'm referring to, don't you?
o-o
I think. :3
ᐅᖃᐅᓯᖅ ᐊᑕᐅᓯᖅ ᓈᒻᒪᔪᐃᑦᑐᖅ
Writer of horse words
HAPPY EID UL-FITR MUSLIM TROPERS!
I hope you broke your fast like a box full of china thrown out of a truck going full speed down the highway.
Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
o-o
Thank you. :3
ᐅᖃᐅᓯᖅ ᐊᑕᐅᓯᖅ ᓈᒻᒪᔪᐃᑦᑐᖅ
Zzzzzzzzzz
OK, not a Muslim here, but asking for a good translation of the Quran.
I'm aware that there's a strong tradition that it shouldn't be translated, but I simply can't believe that I'll get a better understanding of it reading it with an Arabic-English dictionary in one hand and the Quran in the other, trying to puzzle it out word by word than I will with a good translation done by someone who actually knows both languages and can communicate the nuances and connotations as well as the dictionary definitions.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Writer of horse words
So, as someone who had to go with the New Living Translation of The Bible over the King James version because the later felt like I was being punched in the brain by Shakespeare, this problem is near and dear to me.
My Wife’s father gave her a Qur’an that I use by an “approved” Muslim source. I can generally get a few paragraphs before I’m lost, so I ALSO have a copy Penguin Classic Koran
that I use to straighten my head out.
I’m at work and don’t have quick access to my copy to tell you the translator, but I’ll get the info to you ASAP. details of the various translations here. I’m going to double check the comments on my translation when I get the chance. It seems many of the translations are not free of personal bias.
Writer of horse words
This is the one I have at home. Translation by Abdullah Yusef Ali
The Other Wiki mentions there's some antisemitic undertones and the language is a bit dated. It was apparently one of the most popular translations until recently.
It's official replacement is this version.
In related news, I think I'll hit up Powell's today...
On further thought. Somehow what I have sounds a bit better...
http://www.meforum.org/717/assessing-english-translations-of-the-quran
Now the most widely disseminated Qur'an in most Islamic bookstores and Sunni mosques throughout the English-speaking world, this new translation[41] is meant to replace the Yusuf 'Ali edition and comes with a seal of approval from both the University of Medina and the Saudi Dar al-Ifta.[42] Whereas most other translators have tried to render the Qur'an applicable to a modern readership, this Saudi-financed venture tries to impose the commentaries of Tabari (d. 923 C.E.), Qurtubi (d. 1273 C.E.), and Ibn Kathir (d. 1372 C.E.), medievalists who knew nothing of modern concepts of pluralism. The numerous interpolations make this translation particularly problematic, especially for American Muslims who, in the aftermath of 9-11, are struggling to show that Islam is a religion of tolerance.
From the beginning, the Hilali and Muhsin Khan translation reads more like a supremacist Muslim, anti-Semitic, anti-Christian polemic than a rendition of the Islamic scripture. In the first sura, for example, verses which are universally accepted as, "Guide us to the straight path, the path of those whom You have favored, not of those who have incurred Your wrath, nor of those who have gone astray"[43] become, "Guide us to the Straight Way, the way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who have earned Your anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians)."[44] What is particularly egregious about this interpolation is that it is followed by an extremely long footnote to justify its hate based on traditions from medieval texts.
Contemporary political disputes also pollute the translation, marring what should be a reflection of timeless religion. Whereas the Qur'an reports Moses's address to the Israelites as "O my people! Enter the Holy Land that God has assigned unto you,"[45] this Saudi version twists the verse with modern politics, writing, "O my people! Enter the holy land (Palestine)."
The appendix includes a polemical comparison of Jesus and Muhammad, reporting that the former had no claim to divinity.[46] From a Muslim perspective, what Jesus did or did not do should be drawn from the Qur'anic text, not an appendix, and certainly not by Muslim readings of the gospels. In fact, while the Qur'an does take issue with the Christian claims of divinity for Jesus, it views him, along with his mother Mary, as being truly blessed and peaceful, much in concordance with the general Christian belief.[47] Although this Saudi-sponsored effort, undertaken before 9-11, is a serious liability for American Muslims in particular, it still remains present in Sunni mosques, probably because of its free distribution by the Saudi government.
edited 31st Aug '11 4:07:35 PM by Justice4243
Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
Zzzzzzzzzz
Looks like if I can find the Arberry, I'll make that my first choice. Or if I happen onto the Bewley version I'll snaffle it. Thank you for those links — especially the one on Assessing the various versions.
And hey, the Arberry is available online in its entirety through the Wayback Machine.
edited 31st Aug '11 4:39:59 PM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Writer of horse words
You beat me to it. I was about to suggest that very version. I'm going to pick up a copy tonight.
I just noticed the other version I mentioned, while easy to read, is missing some parts. Probably worth calling out.
o-o
We had Eid a day later here. :3
ᐅᖃᐅᓯᖅ ᐊᑕᐅᓯᖅ ᓈᒻᒪᔪᐃᑦᑐᖅ
Writer of horse words
I ended up getting both Qur'ans/Korans anyhow. Funny how somehow "official" translations seem to be labeled "Qur'an" and whilst other translations use "Koran".
Anyhow, the "Nobel" version is easier to read than my/my wifes existing copy. The comments and parts in parentheses also make it clearer which groups I'm suppose to hate...and that's really all that needs to be said on the matter.
I'll add that Saudi Arabia has been on the list of countries my wife and I have no desire to really go to ever.
I read a bit of both the " "Nobel" " * and "The Koran Interpreted" and the later definitely paint a more optimistic view of the other two religions.
Also it's an interesting challenge hold two books while standing and trying to get the both to a specific page.
Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
One just might
We had Eid on Tuesday here.
edited 1st Sep '11 9:00:47 PM by Blurring
If a chicken crosses the road and nobody else is around to see it, does the road move beneath the chicken instead?
Writer of horse words
I’ve basically just been buying my wife presents since Tuesday.
So, I gave the “ “ Nobel “ “ Qur’an a closer look and determined a few interesting things.
As the page I quoted earlier alluded too, the anti-Christian and Anti-Jew sentiment because before Sura 1 is even finished.
All appreciation, gratefulness and thankfulness are to Allah alone, Lord of the worlds
The Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful
The Possessor of the day of recompense (i.e., on the last day of judgment)
To You we worship, and to You we seek help
Direct all of us to the straight path (i.e., to the way of Islam)
The way of those on whom You have bestowed Your grace, not the way ‘’’of those who have earned Your anger, nor of those who have lost their way and are astray’’’
Emphasis mine. Before I cover the emphasized part, I’ll mention that that comments on the first page are HUGE. So huge in fact, that the last few words of the translation of the sura are on page 2…you actually have to flip the page to finish the seven line sura.
The comments on the emphasis part claim the ones who have earned Allah’s anger are “the Jews” and the lost and astray group is “the Christians”. To the credit of the people doing the comments, it is from a Hadith. However it’s from Hadith five in level of importance to the Sunni Muslims (I’ve been told the Average Muslim rarely goes any deeper than the first Hadith) and is also on the second tier of probably authenticity as far as the book is concerned.
I checked Sura 3:110-115 (one of the not so flattering passages regarding people of the book) and found a random reference to prisoners of Muslims converting and being saved, but this only happening because they were captured. The implication, I’m wondering, that the “good” Christians and Jews are the ones that are impression and forced to convert. There didn’t seem to be any logical reason to include this part from the Hadith (1st Hadith, but still seemly completely out of context) so it’s kind of hard to believe someone didn’t have an agenda when they added the comments.
My wife isn’t too happy about the comments; she says the translation is probably one of the better ones, but that the comments are a rather improper thing to include with the Qur’an ESPICIALLY Sura 1.
The nice thing is the comments provide insight to the behavior of other groups besides the Muslim at the time the Qur’an was written. If the comments provide an accurate look of these other groups, many of them where jerks, so many of the verses make a bit more sense in this context.
edited 1st Sep '11 12:25:00 PM by Justice4243
Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
Hi guys! I'm not Muslim myself, but my father's side of the family is, so I grew up in a partially Islamic household. I'm also currently a student of Arabic language and literature. Just dropping in to say hi~
Criminally Ferrety
Salam, full-time prayer-offering Muslim troper here ^^
"Who needs a Wave-Motion Gun if you can teleport your enemy onto one?"
One just might
And Salam to you too.
If a chicken crosses the road and nobody else is around to see it, does the road move beneath the chicken instead?
.*Wants to make a joke about how Arabic words add H's after A's, but remembers that Not All Muslims Are Arabs*
edited 20th Aug '11 5:36:26 PM by EdwardsGrizzly
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