This thread exists to discuss British politics.
Political issues related to Northern Ireland and the Crown Dependencies (the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man) are also considered on-topic here if there's no more appropriate OTC thread for them.
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- There is a dedicated thread to discuss LGBTQ+ rights in the United Kingdom. That doesn't mean it's always off-topic here, but unless something's directly linked to political events, that's probably a better thread for it.
- There's also a separate thread to talk about your favourite British Prime Ministers.
Recent political stuff:
- The vote to see if Britain should adopt Alternative Voting has failed.
- Lib Dems lose lots of councils and councillors, whilst Labour make the majority of the gains in England.
- The Scottish National Party do really well in the elections.
A link to the BBC politics page containing relevant information.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 3rd 2023 at 11:15:30 AM
Oh, bother.
I suggest we drop this topic or at least move it to the German Politics thread.
Disgusted, but not surprised
Never mind.
Edited by CookingCat on Oct 26th 2018 at 12:23:55 PM
Peter Hain has used Parliamentary Privilege in the House of Lords to name Philip Green (Topshop/Burton/Dorothy Perkins etc. boss) as the businessman who took out an injunction over sexual and racial harrassment claims.
Something I lifted from the comment section of the Guardian...made me laugh (as much as I can laugh about the current situation):
Brexit benefits, Number one.
Collectors of stamps are delighted as it is revealed the new blue passport will be stamped every time the holder enters a European country. Enthusiasts resident close to the Irish border, are particularly excited.
Brexit benefits, Number two.
Rewilding campaigners are cock-a-hoop as the government's leaked impact assessments show the City of London could be returned to true wilderness within the next 20 years.
"It's amazing", said Mark Bosky, head of the environmental charity Mastodons Matter, "that the wolves of Threadneedle Street, could soon be replaced by actual wolves!"
Brexit benefits, Number three.
Pollution pressure groups have welcomed news that trawlers based on the UK east coast may be hauling their nets in for the last time. Quotas lost to EU fleets during the Brexit process will result in mothballed boats in Humberside.
Paul Haddock of the Keep Diesel out of Grimsby campaign told us, "This benefit of Brexit will mean the residents of our town can breathe easily on their weekly walk to the dole office".
Brexit benefits, Number four.
Personalised numberplate enthusiasts are over the moon, after an NHS report showed doctors are leaving the UK in their droves.
Richard Head, sales manager of Plates for Prats told us, "Every Doctor seems to want a personal plate, and the subsequent demand has driven prices beyond the reach of the common prat. This exodus should mean a cooling market, and affordable plates for all."
Brexit benefits, Number five.
Concerned parents worried by their offsprings' reliance on social media should be heartened by news that Facebook is considering pulling out of the UK, after leaked impact assessments showed there will be very few lucrative sources of online advertising in the post-Brexit world.
Bob Binary, advertising acquisitions VP at Facebook UK told us, "Facebook is expecting very little advertising effort from the post-Brexit woad industry, and tithe collectors have other means than social media to persuade tenants to hand over their corn shares. We probably won't we playing in the UK space, going forward".
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Always look on the bright siiiide of life...
The Best Worst Psychonaut
So, realistically, assuming there's a No-Deal Brexit, how long will it take before everything completely goes to shit as people have been saying will happen, and suddenly everyone realizes it was a bad idea and start calling for backsies?
I'd like to know because I want a timeframe in which to work towards moving out of the country. Possibly to Germany. Or Ireland? :V
"If you think like a child, you will do a child's work."
Well, given that the relevant professionals I've asked about this stuff also don't seem to have any more info than we do:
- Holds up QI "nobody knows" sign*
I'll put on my amateur heterodox economist hat and have a go if you really want me to, though.
No deal is Instant Recession and probably some form of eurofudge patch treaty that the EU can give us the runaround on negotiating Greece-style, Actual Deal with a Customs Union or something is IMO looking to be another forex freakout then a lower long-term growth path and a couple % onto Cost of Living rather than any instant sturm and drang at the fundamental level. Still suboptimal by some distance given we have a Tory government, but not really a doomsday clause.
I have a suspicion that the constant wave of "We're DOOMED" I see from the Independent, the Guardian, most of the commentariat and the FBPE Twittersphere might actually shoot them in the foot re: rejoining after a non-nodeal or something, because there is a lot of echo-chamber gross exaggeration in there too sometimes and people might just go "well, that wasn't so bad, carry on as before" after a few weeks since the main impacts look either very short-term or very long-term and hard to analyse. Bit like Black Wednesday.
Ireland's going to have a bad time if their main export market suddenly screams "Fuck EVERYTHING" and shoots themself in the leg so the arterial spray will mess up Ireland's nice tax-dodging racket and export economy, maybe don't go there if you want to dodge the fallout.
Edited by DeathorCake on Oct 26th 2018 at 2:49:05 PM
I would say a week at most. Based on the EU impact notices, the EU will immediately do what it has to do, which will lead to trucks lining up at the border, which will lead to food and medicament shortages.
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Brexit: UK government to host summit on why other countries should join the EU
pffffhahahahahahahaha
What's precedent ever done for us?
A procrastination in of itself
That’s from earlier in the year, the summit was in July.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
It started in July. The practical demonstration is still ongoing. 
NVM.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Nov 4th 2018 at 11:02:21 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Well, that was a dramatic waste of a perfectly good budget tipple. Money that equates to one teaching assistant for six months to each school, some tax cuts for rich people and a desperate patch-job on the NHS. Standard Tory, in other words.
Most of the economists on the Left that I follow are embroiled in a long blog-and-twitter war over whether Labour should ditch their Fiscal Rule about getting govt. debt falling as a % of GDP, but they called a truce for a few hours to bitch about Spreadsheet Phil. I wish they'd have this fight in person, civil debate is quite difficult using Twitter threads and with random fans popping in and out to hurl abuse.
I am still kind of baffled over how self-absorbed the UK is. First the press is extremely concerned with what Merkel stepping back as a party leader means for the Brexit negotiations (answer: Nothing, because for one, she is still the chancellor, the party leadership is a matter for Germany and Germany only, and two, Brexit is one matter where the German politicians have roughly the same opinion anyway), and then the politicians jump on the "Norway Now" idea without remembering even ONCE that Norway only reluctantly agreed to put the EEA option on the negotiation table in the first place and would certainly not be thrilled about the notion to have a country join their union in order to leave it down the line.
For a country which prides itself of having connections across the world the UK is extremely insular.
Dinosaur Supervisor
That's correct. It's ironic because the people I know who ran the Empire (grandparents and their friends) were obsessed with being cosmopolitan and how many languages they spoke.
The Best Worst Psychonaut
I suspect that sort of attitude is a remnant, ironically enough, of the days of the Empire when the UK effectively was half the world, so you could get away with being 'insular' because it'd cover such a vast territory anyway, and mainland Britain was only a small part of it - hence why it's not self-sufficient in the slightest and it needs to be part of things, but old habits die very, very hard, it would seem.
It's the same 'have your cake and eat it' mindset that I alluded to when theorizing how the Brexit negotiations got into a quagmire in the first place. The UK wants to be totally self-sufficient because of the nationalist sentiment that it doesn't need any 'filthy foreigners' meddling in its affairs - but at the same time it wants all the benefits of being part of foreign unions. Or maybe it's just 'foreign unions are okay AS LONG AS BRITAIN IS IN CHARGE. IT'S ALL OR NOTHING'. :V
Edited by PresidentStalkeyes on Oct 30th 2018 at 7:14:15 PM
"If you think like a child, you will do a child's work."
A part of me kind of wishes the British Empire had ended with some kind of epic, crushing collapse akin to the defeats of the French and German empires, as opposed to the slow decay that did happen. A portion of the UK never noticed their empire ending, and consequently never changed their attitude in the ways their former European rivals had to do. The fact that the country that succeeded Britain as the world's foremost power shares their language doesn't help matters — the international predominance of the English language due to the USA's influence is a big part of why Britain can't see itself as a peer or equal parnter to Germany or France. It makes it easy for Britain's old farts to squint their eyes and pretend the British Empire is still going strong.
So, after seeing press reports that John McDonnell is supporting Hammond's budget, I thought it merited looking into. Here's what I found:
Apparently, the question journalists asked McDonnell was whether a Labour Government would reverse it and his response was to say they wouldn't reverse it, they'd tackle the inequality of it. (The clarification comes from a freelance journalist who used to work for the Mail on Sunday in response to one of the BBC assistant political editors stating that McDonnell supports the budget).
He later made a statement defending what he said which has been quoted by a Guardian journalist as follows: "We're not going to take money out of people's pockets: simple as that".
The Guardian gives a more complete quote of what he said earlier (10:13am):
But we put forward in the general election a fairer taxation system so that does mean that we will be asking the top 5% to pay a bit more in income tax and we will be rolling back many of the corporation tax cuts that have taken place, and we will be cracking down on tax evasion and tax avoidance.
What we’ve said is we will leave those personal allowances at whatever we inherit but our focus will be on a fair taxation system.
There's a more complete article on the subject here (Guardian, again):
Labour backlash after McDonnell refuses to oppose budget tax cuts
Instead of reversing Hammond’s giveaways, McDonnell said Labour would implement its own tax rises, including a new top rate of 45p for those earning over £80,000 a year, and reversing Conservative cuts to corporation tax.
“We want a fair taxation system, where the top 5% pay a bit more,” he said. In response to criticism from the Manchester mayor, Andy Burnham, who said the tax cuts would be “hard to justify at any time,” McDonnell said: “I completely understand where Andy’s coming from, but what we’re into is trying to ensure we have a fair taxation system based upon the new proposals on income tax that we’ve put forward, which he supported.”
Edited by Wyldchyld on Nov 4th 2018 at 11:06:24 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Oh, bother.
I guess they would only have been happy with the EU if they had all the votes.
Disgusted, but not surprised
I think as well there is also a conflict of political traditions at play here. UK politics is far more adversarial than politics on the continent. The Westminster system where typically one party gets absolute power and the loyal opposition just gets to sulk on the sidelines is completely different to European tradition of compromise and coalitions.
(yes I am blaming this all on FPTP - how did you know I am a Liberal Democrat supporter?)
I mean, I sort of supported why DC moved the Tories out of the centre right grouping in the European Parliament. As far as I could tell, there was no opposition in European Parliamentary politics. So I supported the idea of having a group that just wanted to say "whoa, okay slow down for a moment and think about this." I just wish he'd found a group to join that wasn't full of nationalists and possibly worse.
I actually agree with Mc Donnell here. Obviously not the policy I would have chosen, but there's no need for tax hikes just yet unless Labour comes in and actually tries to balance the budget for no reason whatsoever, and I have seen no indication that they are quite that stupid other than their Fiscal Credibility Rule that can be interpreted fifty different ways anyway. No point burning political capital on reversing them.
Personally I'd prefer if AV had passed back in 2011, but I suppose that was an early example of how easy it is to spout complete nonsense in referendum campaigns that Cameron & Friends did not heed.
Figure of Hourai
I'm glad AV didn't pass because it's a shoddy compromise that would undermine the argument to actually go to a better proportional system.
Avatar Source
The budget will be worthless anyway once Brexit hits.
It was pretty worthless before. We've had better than expected deficit forecasts, the few crumbs we got today just adjusts things back to the trend path in terms of the private sector savings/government deficit. Trade deficit still means savings ratio is negative, private and esp household debt is building up and a big deleveraging Bad Time could happen if there is any serious shock.
Oh wait, we have one pencilled in for next March. Wonderful. Well, a decent enough round of preliminary sparring for Labour.
Dresden was a core logistical base for the Eastern Front, any bombing to disrupt it had some justification.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.