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rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#2001: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:02:19 PM

Thrice, something to consider is that Homura's brave new world isn't just about putting Madoka in a safe little box where she can't get hurt. It's also got lonely Mami having a Meet Cute with a tiny hungry child to adopt, and hobo Kyouko attending school and hanging out with people, and even Sayaka, who Homura's squabbled with since her hair was in braids and who just declared eternal enmity towards her, gets to live with the friends she left behind and the girl she left the afterlife for. She may be going around wiping memories, but she's putting in the effort to make the people she knows happier than they were before.

According to Nagisa, they don't have cheese.

Sounds more like hell to me.

Afterlives don't always have to be either perfectly good or perfectly bad. Take Valhalla. You can't die and you party all the time, but you're expected to run around bashing heads and getting bashed in your head all day. For some people that works, for some people it doesn't.

Puellahalla is apparently nice enough that only two people wanted to take a vacation from it, at least.

This is like watching a terrified yet insanely determined invulnerable nun with a flamethrower fighing a just as invulnerable, punch-drunk blindfolded Mixed Arts fighter over Jesus' zombified corpse in a lavender sailor fuku. It's all wrong, you know it'll end wrong, you know you should step in, yet you also know you wouldn't be able to do a thing, and it's too fascinating to watch regardless.
You lost me at "It's all wrong."

edited 15th Nov '16 11:03:03 PM by rikalous

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#2003: Nov 15th 2016 at 11:58:21 PM

Some of you may be interested in reading my quest. It's not actually a fix fic at all as it's a sequel, not a fix fic, and it's a quest, not a fix fic, but it does go into those issues at least.

https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/puella-magi-restitutione-divinus-pmmm-post-rebellion.24530/

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#2004: Nov 16th 2016 at 4:21:28 AM

"a deathless world that contains no decay, no suffering, no putrefaction" is unambiguously a good thing and no thesis I've ever read, in any context, has convinced me otherwise.

I mean, I feel like This one is a pretty good outline.

I like decay and putrefaction because cheese and wine.

Afterlives don't always have to be either perfectly good or perfectly bad. Take Valhalla. You can't die and you party all the time, but you're expected to run around bashing heads and getting bashed in your head all day. For some people that works, for some people it doesn't.

It was also for Norse Warriors, who are known for liking to bash heads.

edited 16th Nov '16 4:23:00 AM by unnoun

shanejayell Since: Jun, 2011
#2005: Nov 16th 2016 at 5:25:32 PM

My only complaint with Rebellion probably is that it takes away Madoka's right to choose.

(Mind you you could point out that TV series Madoka took away everybody else's choices with her decision. So there's that.)

If I WAS gonna Fixfic it (And I don't really plan on it) I wouldn't mind setting up a situation where Madoka and Homura's Goddess selves come into some form of yin/yang balance....

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#2006: Nov 16th 2016 at 5:56:55 PM

Before you consider writing a "fix" fic, I'd recommend waiting for Season 2 or Movie 4 or whatever the new animated project is going to be.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
ThriceCharming Red Spade, Black Heart from Maryland Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Red Spade, Black Heart
#2007: Nov 16th 2016 at 6:13:27 PM

Could Madoka help it? The girls have already made their choice by accepting Kyubey's contract. The choosing part is done. All Madoka can do is protect them from the most dire consequences of that choice. It's a hail-Mary pass, and I think it's about the best thing Madoka could have done given the circumstances. Maybe her meguca nirvana/heaven is imperfect, but I'd gladly take that over the alternative. But aaanyway.

I don't mean to invalidate you guys' perspectives on Rebellion and the series as a whole, but personally, I can't like Homura anymore (at least not as much) unless she regrets what she did to Madoka. She may have made things better for Sayaka, Mami, and Kyoko (and I'm certainly glad that she did—I love all three), but as long as she undid Madoka's willing sacrifice and depowered her out of sheer possessive obsession... man, I just can't root for that. It's horribly abusive. God!Madoka and devil!Homura as a yin-yang analogue would be better than what we currently have, but it still feels unnecessarily grim. I don't see why Homura had to suddenly become evil. It feels contrived.

As for Heaven, putrefaction, and cheese, I feel like you guys are willing to use your imagination, but only up to a point. As long as we're already in heaven, who says cheese has to come from putrefying milk? Of course, that's beside the point, because I think it's safe to assume that Madoka's meguca heaven isn't the real deal, but a barely functional facsimile created at the eleventh hour to avoid catastrophe. (It isn't even something Madoka herself created but something that came about in order to accommodate her wish.)

Still better than succumbing to despair and becoming a monster, though.

EDIT: Is season two definitely coming?

edited 16th Nov '16 6:14:37 PM by ThriceCharming

Is that a Wocket in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#2008: Nov 16th 2016 at 6:20:03 PM

As long as we're already in heaven, who says cheese has to come from putrefying milk?

Nagisa came back because she wanted to have cheese again.

That means no cheese period.

but as long as she undid Madoka's willing sacrifice and depowered her out of sheer possessive obsession

I mean, that's being a bit unfair.

Madoka: "You're right. That dream does sound awful. But it's okay now, really. I'm not going anywhere, especially if it's so far away, I couldn't see you again. I'd never do something like that!"
Homura: "You're right. But how? How can you be so sure?"
Madoka: "You know how wimpy I am. If I did anything that'd make someone as strong as you cry like this, it would break my heart."
Homura: "It would break your heart... Leaving us behind would hurt you that much?"
Madoka: "Of course it would. I'd hate to leave you and Sayaka... or Mami and Kyoko... or my mom and dad and Tatsuya... even Hitomi and all our friends from class too... I wouldn't go if I couldn't see you guys again. I know I don't have the courage to do something like that, even if I didn't have a choice."
Homura: "You're right... I know you wouldn't! I knew it would hurt you more than anything. But still... How could I have been so stupid? I should have stopped you back then. I should have stopped you, no matter what I had to do. I shouldn't have let it happen. ...Madoka. I want you to know that when the time comes and you have to make a hard decision, you will have the courage to make it. One day, you'll find out there are things only you can do, and then you'll know just how strong and how kind you really are. Believe me, it's the truth."

Homura thinks that she only chose what she did because she was forced into it, and Madoka as much as admits that herself, to Homura's face.

I certainly wouldn't call "possessive obsession" Homura's motivation. That's just being ludicrously uncharitable about it.

edited 16th Nov '16 6:30:44 PM by unnoun

ThriceCharming Red Spade, Black Heart from Maryland Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Red Spade, Black Heart
#2009: Nov 16th 2016 at 6:45:00 PM

There's no cheese in Madoka's heaven. That doesn't mean that no putrefaction automatically equals no cheese. My point (though admittedly it was a tangential, off-the-cuff point that I didn't think about very much) is that a critique of Madoka's heaven doesn't hold up as a critique of the abstract idea of heaven. To me (and probably to most people) it isn't heaven if you can't count on the things that make you happy, almost by definition.

And, okay, maybe I was a little unfair to Homura. But, like... she knows that Madoka isn't too wimpy to make that big, important sacrifice. She even gives her a mini You Are Better Than You Think You Are speech, right there and then. Furthermore, labyrinth!Madoka and real!Madoka (for lack of a better term) have had radically different life experiences that shaped them into different people. How is it not selfish of Homura to remember this impossibly brave iteration of the person she loves most, the one who did have the courage to sacrifice her personal relationships for the sake of every magical girl who ever lived or who ever will live, and still think, "Nah, I'd rather have the one that's not brave enough to leave me, and screw everything else?"

edited 16th Nov '16 6:46:06 PM by ThriceCharming

Is that a Wocket in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#2010: Nov 16th 2016 at 6:46:32 PM

I mean, technically the Madoka in the labyrinth was the same Madoka who made that choice, she just dumped her memories in Sayaka and Nagisa.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#2011: Nov 16th 2016 at 6:47:07 PM

Since you clearly didn't read my post explaining the film, I'll just quote the pertinent bit for you:

Generally speaking, Homura was okay with the outcome of the anime. She thought that this was what Madoka wanted and was content to protect Madoka's world until her end (which is likely what the last shot of the anime showed happening). Everything changed* when she had the long discussion with Madoka in the field of flowers. The symbolism here is easy to follow since the flowers bloom and wilt with Homura's mental state. What's interesting here is that this conversation is the turning point for Homura's beliefs and thoughts and it's due to misunderstanding on both of their parts (which is probably a key point in their relationship even in the anime). Homura posited her scenario in the way she viewed it but not in a way that wasn't actually true. As such, Madoka misinterpreted the scenario and gave an answer that was true but worded in such as way mislead Homura. Homura then misread Madoka's answer and assumed that she didn't want to become a goddess because she would never leave her friends and family behind. Homura decides that she needs to save Madoka one last time. It is at this moment that the titular rebellion begins.

TL;DR: Homura only did what she did because of a misunderstanding.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#2012: Nov 16th 2016 at 6:48:27 PM

Failure of communication is, as always, a bitch.

Psyga315 Since: Jan, 2001
#2013: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:01:05 PM

It's been three damn years and no word of if they're doing anything outside of a brief clip that, thanks to a certain mecha film series, I have high doubts they're actually gonna use for the film.

ThriceCharming Red Spade, Black Heart from Maryland Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Red Spade, Black Heart
#2014: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:06:56 PM

[up][up][up] You're right, I didn't. I overlooked it. Sorry.

[up][up] Indeed.

I have to say, this conversation is actually pretty stimulating, so thanks to all for participating in it. But it's making me want a Fix Fic even harder than before. I long to see Homura crying into a restored God!Madoka's shoulder as she gently strokes her hair and shooshpaps her.

edited 16th Nov '16 7:08:34 PM by ThriceCharming

Is that a Wocket in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
SCMof2814 Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: I don't mind being locked in this eternal maze!
#2015: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:09:28 PM

And luminouses her. Oh, all the lewd luminousing...

ThriceCharming Red Spade, Black Heart from Maryland Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Red Spade, Black Heart
#2016: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:24:25 PM

I don't know what that is, but for some reason I still know it's awful and that you should be ashamed of yourself for suggesting it.

Is that a Wocket in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#2017: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:27:13 PM

The terrified nun out of her mind with the flamethrower, definitely.

SCMof2814 Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: I don't mind being locked in this eternal maze!
#2018: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:30:07 PM

Well, luminousing involves a lot or rubbing. Lewd, lewd rubbing...

rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#2019: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:38:04 PM

[up][up][up]Luminous is fandom slang for this cheekrub thing. It is adorable, and neither awful nor lewd.

Also, I wanna point out that "put Madoka in a box where she can't get hurt or have agency because of something she told me once" is Homura's basic motivation for nigh all of the original series. She's backsliding and misunderstanding, but this ain't coming out of nowhere.

Before you consider writing a "fix" fic, I'd recommend waiting for Season 2 or Movie 4 or whatever the new animated project is going to be.
But then we don't get the fun of seeing canon go off in a completely different direction.

edited 16th Nov '16 7:41:41 PM by rikalous

ThriceCharming Red Spade, Black Heart from Maryland Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Red Spade, Black Heart
#2020: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:43:04 PM

[up][up][up] Eh, I'll take it.

[up] Ah, all right! They can definitely do that. That's adorable. I'm going to stare at that gif until the pain goes away.

Is that a Wocket in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
FringeBenefits Magical Girl Authority™ from in your basement (Veteran) Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Magical Girl Authority™
#2022: Dec 11th 2016 at 2:13:08 PM

Chapter 22 of Shattered Skies is now up.

In which the Main Five begin to put the pieces back together and move forward.

Featuring the return of the satanic bunnycat everyone loves to hate. XD

marston Since: Sep, 2011
#2023: Dec 14th 2016 at 7:29:52 PM

Does anyone here know of any good PMMM fanfics where Kyoko is at least one of the main characters, if not the main focus? Any reccomendations would do, be it a Kyosaya shipping fic {Cute or not}, a character study about Kyoko, or anything else really.

32ndfreeze (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#2024: Dec 14th 2016 at 9:11:53 PM

I'm a few chapters behind in fic. But Kyoko has a pretty major role in it.

Homura gets I'd say about 45% of the focus in the fic, with Kyoko getting the next largest amount. It's also a role I've never seen Kyoko play before in a fanfic.

EDIT: This fic is also ambiguously in continuity with the first one I linked. This is a much more fluffy shipping one though.

edited 14th Dec '16 9:13:35 PM by 32ndfreeze

FringeBenefits Magical Girl Authority™ from in your basement (Veteran) Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Magical Girl Authority™
#2025: Dec 14th 2016 at 9:15:47 PM

[up][up]Kyoko is the main character of my Stars Above side-story, My Sunshine, but it's not going to make much sense without reading the main story first. It's also very, very much not a happy story, I'm warning you up front.

However, I also wrote three short fluff stories where she's a major character.

edited 14th Dec '16 9:17:14 PM by FringeBenefits


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