Busy Street/TGWTG debate thread.

That's probably part of the reason it has that name, AHR.

Kill all math nerds

Filby: Don't you ever say something like that again!

EDIT: Oh would you look at that, it's a trope... —reedits it—

Myrmy: Heh. Prolly.

edited 25th Feb '11 7:47:59 AM by MrAHR

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I don't see what is wrong with making your livelehood of the internet, or even what is wrong with being self-employed at all. Considering they make a pretty decent living off of this, and have fun while there doing it it seems like a great way to go. If it upsets you because you believe their work declines in quality once they make it their job you may have a point. But that is a subjective matter. Also, the likelyhood of "fading away" and being unemployable seems extreamly unlikely. The Brothers Chaps have been supporting themselves on merchandise for years and they even take frequent hiatuses. Penny Arcade has been supporting themselves for over a decade for a few panels a week Gabe and Tycho even make enough have a staff of about eight people run the website. The arguments I've seen against living off this hobby really don't seem to ad up.

edited 25th Feb '11 9:38:15 AM by Wild-Card

Whatever tomorrow brings I'll be there. With open arms and open eyes.

My main gripe with Asalieri doesn't even have to do anything with TGWTG. Hell, I even liked his AVGN review.

The thing that bothers me the most about him is that he seems to be one of those "Videogames were only good when I was young!!!" guys

I can't stop listening to this

@Wild-Card: To answer that, I refer to two of the "Laws" of Busy Street.

'Opens laptop, dons reading glasses' And I quote:

(Busy Street Law of the Internet #6 – You can’t rely on Internet Wealth for the rest of your life.

"Quote Tees, Premium Accounts, DV Ds – they are all the same. Profit. People rely on Pay Pal to get them through to the end of the month. What kind of people would rely on the instability of the internet when they could easily get a normal job outside of the house, and get some money. We’ve turned down You Tube Partnerships before, we asked ourselves “Are we really going to do this for the rest of our life?”)

In other words, I suppose it means they don't mind people making money off the internet, but they disapprove those who rely on the "instability" of the internet with revenue from Blip ads, Quote T-shirts, merchandise, and other sources. Cause to them, it doesn't make much common sense. And that they've refused You Tube partnerships because they feel they won't be able to continue the site indefinitely, which TGWTG seems to be trying.

My issue with Doug being dependent on the internet, is just purely based on my own subjective opinion. If he succeeds, eh, good for him. Just saying though for other internet reviewers hoping to do the same, it's not exactly the most secure occupation for others to follow.

Then there's the second law:

"Busy Street Law of the Internet #7 – Internet Popularity is minute in comparison to Real-Life Popularity.

Now we know the Old Media of Newspapers, Television and Radio are all trying to get involved with the internet. iPad Apps for The New York Times, Television Shows able to be viewed on Hulu, and Satellite Radio encouraging you listen to it online. Eventually the internet will indeed over through the stars of today. But it is a pretty big world out there, and not that many people watch the same You Tube channels as you. I doubt people know who sXe Phil is outside of the 100,000 people who sub to him. That is still less than 1% of the entire population of the world has heard about him. However – over a billion people have seen The World Cup this year, and could tell you who won."

In regards to the whole "TGWTG will eventually fade out" that would stem from BS's opinion that being a "celebrity" on the internet, really does not equate to real-life popularity. To that, I point to Spoony's campaign at trying to win the Mashable Award against John Cena. Cena is one of the most popular professional wrestlers in the world, and is something of a media icon. He's everywhere, from the Make-a-Wish foundation, to visiting hospitals, to the thousands of seven year olds wearing his bright-ass purple shirts. Mr. Antwiler on the other hand, yeah, he has a fairly niche fanbase, but compared to Cena. His own popularity pales in comparison. And in the end, he wasn't even part of the finalists for the Mashables. Which to me, and Busy Street, is proof that just because you have a following on the internet, does not equal real-life fame.

And speaking of Asalieri, No Hay Nick Libre, he and another poster actually paid a visit to Spoony's hometown of Mesa, and asked some people on the street who he was. As a demonstration of the "myth" of internet popularity. It's on the blog's own You Tube channel if you're interested.

Though, I suppose it wouldn't be fair unless we knew exactly what Spoony, or for that matter, the rest of TGWTG's main staff, think of their own popularity. The guy in charge of the site is fully convinced that Spoony is an asshole whose ego has been inflated to enormous proportions due to the minor fame he's achieved on the Internet. And regarding Noah's treatment of his fanbase, and his Orwellian Editor policy for his comments, I can understand why he would feel that way.

To be fair on my part though, I haven't heard Doug or Spoony go full on length that they are "You Tube Celebrity". Which I can't say for a certain Mr. Christopher Bores.

edited 25th Feb '11 1:53:30 PM by KoB

No wait. They actually went to Spoony's home street and asked his neighbours about him?

Isn't that stalking? I mean, I'd be pretty creeped out if people got that obsessed with me.

Yeah, that is pretty freaking obsessive.

Kill all math nerds

Yeah. Really I don't know what my neighbor does for a living. I'm sure it's the same there.

Anyways Doug's done enough things that his neighbors at least know of him as a person if not what he does.

To Be Updated when I'm not Lazy

I think it was more random people on the street. I think if they have gone directly to Spoony's neighborhood, their may have been a suspicion of stalking.

It's really just Asalieri wanting to mock Spoony due to his ego and treatment of his fans on his website.

If you're curious, here

edited 25th Feb '11 2:09:40 PM by KoB

Also, I'd like to note that sites dedicated to snarking the thing they dislike are more entertaining and likeable than ones dedicated to nerd rage. And I see more of the latter on Busy Street.

I think we've established that Asalieri is a jealous cunt.

edited 25th Feb '11 2:09:24 PM by Myrmidon

Kill all math nerds

Since when was popularity the same as making a living off of the internet and it being a perfectly fine job.

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I used to read a Dominic Deegan hate site, and one of it's rules was that you should snark the comic, rather than the author.

That seems like a good policy.

Kill all math nerds

Yeah. It is. Although I am a bit of a hypocrite for saying that...^_^

Also, even if someone is just an internet celebrity, I'd still say that's something fairly impressive. Better than anything I could achieve. Why should it need to be mainstream?

It reminds me of the people who think making money off of entertainment is a horrible act since it involves selling out and since the entertainment is bad, it is bad to make money off of it, but it is also bad to make money off of good entertainment too because it will inevitably become bad entertainment because...

Sides, success is success. Let him have his ego. I've seen people get far more egotistical over far inferior recognition and production.

edited 25th Feb '11 2:18:21 PM by MrAHR

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Keep in mind, I am just a poster there, and I'm not in complete solidarity with everything BS says there.

In regards to the whole Nerd Rage thing, I suppose this quote from their website can perhaps explain:

"Please do not take anything on the site personally, we are intentionally trying to exploit people for our own amusement, which is very cost effective if you think about it long enough."

So I guess, in a way, you guys are kind of right. Busy Street is something of a troll site. An ED or Something Awful for internet culture. I personally think they do deliberately over-exaggerate some of the articles on the site in order to provoke fanboy rage. But then again, that's what ED also tends to do quite often. And they mention not to take whatever they say seriously.

Course, given the way they write their articles, it can be easy to assume they really are as obsessive, bitter, and rude on BS as they are in real life.

edited 25th Feb '11 2:19:19 PM by KoB

Ko B: I heard you the first time. Even if you were more than a poster, or that Asa dude, I'd still think nothing of you personally. To attach emotions to a person in a debate is to lose the debate by default. So do not worry about any sort of rage directed towards you. From me at least, I cannot speak of the others.

Well, BS reminds me more of my blog (where I seriously exposit my hate) than ED...

edited 25th Feb '11 2:21:21 PM by MrAHR

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The problem with that is the same as with ED. They might not be taking seriously what they write, but a large number of people who read it do.

I can't stop listening to this

A fanbase is a fanbase and you can't criticize the work for that unless it encourages it.

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KOB, I genuinely don't know what you're talking about when you say he screams much more than he did in the earlier videos. Cartoon All-Stars, Power Rangers, Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat, Space Jam, Cloverfield, Super Mario Brothers... he sounded like a goddamned howler monkey and if he kept that up, I probably would have killed him. Now, on the other hand, of course he rages (that's his character) but he also is sane more often, reviews things he likes and actually gives his thought-out opinion of the movie.

Yeah. Agreed. I have a friend who dislikes the Nostalgia Critic because of his 'this makes no sense' gig, and as of late has enjoyed his later videos due to a lack of that.

Also, speaking as a wannabe critic, I can say that talking and having people listen to you can give you a bit of an ego, but that does not necessarily mean someone is egotistical. Obviously everyone acts differently, but when people get recognition from 1-3 people who take what you say and go 'wow! you're right!' or 'I respect you because of these opinions!' or 'wow this was awesome update!' it can be enough to make someone's day. Now imagine a couple hundred people in an active community.

It might not be mainstream, but a certain degree of self-importance is a bit justified. Having an ego or even feeling a bit self-important does not necessarily make someone a self-absorbed douche.

Although by this point, I'm not even debating about BS. I wanna discuss this. Probably because of one those 'whoever made this needs to get a life' comment that I heard today. Those annoy me so much.

edited 25th Feb '11 2:33:53 PM by MrAHR

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I do note a tendency that internet critics of critics have where they automatically assume that the object of their hatred must be an insufferable Small Name, Big Ego. Remember John Solomon?

That said, I don't much care about Doug or Noah's behavior offsite so it's entirely possible they are raving egostical douchebags on forums or conventions, but I haven't heard any horror stories from people who don't already hate them.

Kill all math nerds

Well, I dunno about Spoony, but when out of character, Doug Walker is a really amiable guy.

But when it comes to egos, critics have them and critics of critics have them. No exceptions. It's just usually it doesn't matter, because having a bit of an ego is not a bad thing. It's how one acts that matters.

edited 25th Feb '11 2:40:56 PM by MrAHR

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In retrospect, probably referring to this thread as a debate, is a gross error on my part. I suppose the better explanation would be that I wanted to challenge people's opinions and see what kind of defense or explanation they had. One can't go on to TGWTG forum's and criticize cause you'll then be labelled as a troll. You go to Busy Street or Something Awful, trying to debate against their criticism, and the posters may consider you a fanboy not worth mention.

But that's way I started this thread, cause I figured it represented something resembling a neutral ground, since TV Tropes is one of the more harmless sites around. And thought I'd try to explain both my opinions, and the opinions people hold on both sites.

@Libre: Agreed.

@Emeriin: To me, NC did indulge in a lot of over-the-top screaming during his early days, but I found he balanced that out with wit and sarcasm, and not trying to rely on referencing memes or old movie/show clips, as a means of telling a joke. I just don't find the same balance in many of his later reviews, with the exceptions of when he's reviewing a movie that's So Bad it's Good. The Room, Dn D, etc. I actually see that he actually enjoys those movies, and he's affectionately poking a jab or two at it. I think it flows better because he finds something positive about it, whereas when reviews something like My Pet Monster or Neverending Story III, I feel he's just trying to force a joke by expressing feigned anger and emotion, and it just doesn't seem like good comedy to me. To be fair, since he's a fan of Neverending Story, I can also interpret some of the rage is legitimate.

But then again, you and I have contrasting opinions, and I respect yours. I'm just explaining mine.

edited 25th Feb '11 2:43:15 PM by KoB

Heh. You can get huge flak for criticism in tv tropes too. Just gotta go to the right form of entertainment.

Most people don't really like debating on this site, from what I can tell. I do though, which usually leads to problems. Well, you've challenged our opinions, and we've challenged back. Anything you haven't got a satisfying answer/an answer that makes sense about?

I'm game for any type of discussion/topic about BS and TGWTG.

edited 25th Feb '11 2:45:23 PM by MrAHR

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Thank you for at least being polite with your opinions, I appreciate it. One more thing, though; My Pet Monster? Shouty? I know you're not keen on the storylines (if you can really call a two-parter a storyline) but that was one of the more quieter episodes to my recollection. And he got humiliated for being a brat at the end. *shrugs*

And as for Doug and Noah, Noah's a bit more confrontational with jackass fans lately but they're both lovely, humble men from all the behind-the-scenes stuff I've seen.

edited 25th Feb '11 2:49:54 PM by emeriin

Do you have behind the scenes Noah linkage? Cause I would like to see him when he's not in critic mode.

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