General Sonic The Hedgehog thread

....

Seriously?

I assume that's referring to the comics, not the games? The canon of which I know nothing about, but would GUESS that that's bullshit.

For the games, it definitely is bullshit.

Edited by diddyknux on Oct 5th 2022 at 6:17:24 AM

Makes sense. Eggman killing anyone changes the scope of his villainy immensely, and they want Games! Eggman to keep being a fun supervillain type.

It's like how Marvel's official stance is that Comics! Hulk has never killed anyone and does crazy math to ensure every bit of thrown debris lands safely even when he's blatantly rampaging around. It's ridiculous, but it keeps them from having to deal with all the things that arise from the character being a murderer.

So I bet it's something similar here. Even when Eggman literally broke the entire planet into pieces, acknowledging that that would've had thousands of casualties would change the character too much.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 5th 2022 at 4:20:06 AM

I mean, as much as people despise it, it's made clear that a lot of furry animal people died during the War with Eggman.

Like, Infinite wiped out Buddy's entire unit, and again they supposedly lost a lot of dudes during operation Big Wave.

There's literally no way Eggman hasn't broken a few eggs with all the evil omelettes he's made.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Oct 5th 2022 at 4:20:38 AM

Even if you wanted to take "indirectly" off the table, he tried to launch a missile at Station Square, and only failed because it didn't detonate on impact and so Tails had time to get there and disable it. Attempted mass murder is STILL pretty bad.

(Again, if the games were being talked about. The comics, I've got nada)

Edited by diddyknux on Oct 5th 2022 at 6:22:29 AM

EDIT: After listening to the kast, "Eggman never killed anyone" is the official story, but Ian and Kyle both call bullshit on the idea.

Edited by Negacube on Oct 5th 2022 at 7:40:52 AM

Then explain Operation Big Wave, Ian.

False alarm.

Edited by Negacube on Oct 5th 2022 at 7:33:23 AM

That sounds right.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Oct 5th 2022 at 4:38:05 AM

Basically Ian and Kyle called bullshit on it too, but that's the story Sega are rolling with.

Like Known said, its to keep the tone consistently lighthearted no matter how ridiculous it sounds.

... Yeah, good luck with that lol.

Even as recent as Lost World, Eggman was okay with his machine draining life on the planet.

No no no no You see.

Eggman only wanted to drain little bit of the planet, and didn't wanna destroy it. He even saved Tails too. Totally an ok dude who would never murder anyone.

Eggman: "Hey, I'm a good guy! Remember that time I helped fight off a hoard of Alien Invaders?"

"Well, Shadow did like 95% of the work..."

It's quite clear that this isn't quite saying that Eggman never killed anyone; rather, what it's saying is that Eggman will never be treated as anything worse than a saturday morning cartoon villain.

Though, come to think of it, a lot of Saturday morning cartoon villains are also a lot more dangerous than the way they’re treated by the narrative would suggest…

Yeah. I don't mind him being a Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain. Eggman being a quintessential supervillain in contrast to Sonic's spunky hero is one of my favorite things about him.

Plus, all this really tells us is that Eggman will continue to never kill anyone onscreen, and the games will continue to never state that Eggman has killed someone offscreen, so things won't really change.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 5th 2022 at 5:39:42 AM

A lot of the deaths are also a bit more complicated. Solaris/Mephiles was helped being killed by Eggman overall, but he's a heartless villain who would destroy everything.

Dark Gaia isn't much better, and Eggman was willing to split the Earth into pieces to win, but didn't go as far to outright kill or hurt people in return.

He's fine with terrorizing, but he's not much of a person for killing. He's indirectly responsible for Gamma's death, but Gamma also had served his life goal and only shut down the other E-Series but rescued the animals inside. And Gamma isn't entirely dead, being a Flicky, so.

Emerl was dead thanks to Eggman, though. On the other hand, rebuilt is Gemerl. I don't remember if that one died during the end of Advance 3?

Black Doom? If Eggman never kept Shadow alive, then the alien couldn't have died(by the hedgehog's hands).

I don't think it's simply offscreen so much as a selective thing. Villains probably don't count, and they might more mean innocents, and with caveats. It's a poor statement to say straight and all.

Eggman never killed anyone in Forces. Infinite did, which is why he was sent to the Phantom Zone to be trapped for eternity.

I meant Phantom Ruby.

I guess that's arguably true even in the IDW comics to a certain degree. Everybody did end up recovering from the metal virus. Eggman thrashed Starline and left him where he lay, but what ended up killing him was the building collapsing.

Just ignore Silver coming back in time like, "the future is empty, guys."

Eggman revealed as not murdering anyone feels like subplot in a Sonic Boom episode.

Eggman: I can't believe I've never killed anyone. What kind of threat am I when the worst I can do is just harm people's bodies and put in them in extreme pain?

Cubot: One that works at Meh Burger?

Orbot: Sir, perhaps you could try associating yourself something that is responsible for many deaths and when people recall it, they'll automatically think of you. Going forward you could be Doctor Heart Disease.

Cubot: Yeah, or Doctor Crushed by a Vending Machine.

Eggman: My image can't survive this kind of news... but if I try to do something, that meddlesome hedgehog will come after me.

Orbot: It would seem the only other alternative is for you to have the reputation of a killer without any of the culpability.

Eggman: Exactly, like a tobacco company executive with better fashion sense.

Edited by BorneAgain on Oct 5th 2022 at 10:29:26 AM

I'm not sure if we're counting the live action movies, especially since that is a completely different Eggman, but he nearly crushed not only Sonic, but also Tom and that girl (I can't remember her name, it's been a while since I've seen it) to death in the sequel. And had the Chaos Emeralds not made Sonic Super he would've succeeded.

I Ts just a handwave for his Saturday morning cartoon villainy, nothing more. Best not to think about it too much.

Let's see:

• Adventure 2: tried to use the Kill Sat WMD that was Shadow's bithplace
• Unleashed: Cracked the planet in multiple pieces and unsealed a Satantic Archetype
• Colors: moved several planets around for his theme park, which means he risked them going rouge and being starless, and at least one of them was inhabited (Planet Wisp). Really explains why some of them stayed on earth huh?
• Generations: Kidnapped Sonic's friends and froze them in time, which might had left them as good as dead if not for Sonic.
• Lost World: Life energy draining plot, with Knuckled and Amy being implied (though temporary) casualties (granted that it was reversed later might discount it)
• Forces: Waged a war that ended with him as dictator of the entire planet, unless the human forces responded to Eggman's army in kind, (and considering that the only robot in the resistance was Omega that seems very unlikely)

Before brining up his IDW atrocies I have to bring up Archie and specifially the Egg Grapes, which is basiablly a smaller scale version of his plan in Lost World (no Lost Hex and it's effect was over a smaller area) on top of his usually robotization antics (which granted has some outliers, but I'm pretty sure he was gunning for killing the personality and leaving the mechanized husk as his slaves)

And finnaly we have IDW Baldy McNoseHair and oh yeah, the metal virus plot! Turning every man, woman, child and everyone else into a sci-fi take of the undead that he confirms point blank would dissolve after a few centuries

And those were off the top of my head. Claiming that he never killed anyone with plans like that stretches disbelief quite a bit.

Also Adventure 1 where he tried to nuke Station Square. (Tried being the operative word here I assume XD)

For nearly all of those plans he was stopped before he could actually hurt anyone. Dr. Claw's never killed anybody either (unless you count the movie), but that didn't stop him from trying to drown the entirety of Inspector Gadget's hometown in the original series.

They never said "Eggman never tries to hurt anyone," they said "Eggman's ever killed anybody," which remains true if he tries plans that could have hurt people except that Sonic stopped them before that could happen.

The only exceptions that really stretch credulity are Unleashed and Forces. But Unleashed was always blase about the consequences of breaking the planet apart (nobody in the game actually seems to care, for one), and I imagine they want to walk back from the fiasco Forces' premise ended up being. Everything else is perfectly compliant to the "Eggman's never killed anyone" rule.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 5th 2022 at 9:00:15 AM