The Arab Spring

Sure, provided they can get rid of them if they ever change their mind.

Sounds more like Meet the New boss same as the old boss to me. The phrase vicious cycle comes to mind.

Sure, always looking on the bright side of things, eh Tuefel?

More like seeing the same human mistakes in history.

I am also not very fond of "Lesser of two Evils" or "The Devil you know"

Knocking down opressive dictators is all and good but then to turn around put groups who have a history of being oppressive in their place isn't a step forward. That is just the shuffling of feet not the march of change.

(anyone else noticing little "hiccups" with the site?)

edited 30th Mar '13 11:36:58 AM by TuefelHundenIV

Hasn't most of history been a shuffling of feet where progress inched along?

Sometimes it leaps ahead and sometimes it shuffles quietly.

...The History Shuffle sounds like a dance craze.

Talking of shuffles, Jordan gets trim Government to cut spending, Islamists unhappy

...when has progress ever leaped ahead?

Most leaps of progress have been catastrophic failures.

Unbe-freaking-lievable. What is he trying to do, get sued to hell and back by Reporters Without Borders?

From Aljazeera, a Kuwaiti official from whatever ministry they have that governs news outlets and the like has condemned "any insults to reporters" in general, but neglected to specify if any legal measures would be taken against this joker. Meanwhile, an official from Kuwait's resident reporter community (the Arabic word used in the name can mean "club" or "assembly" — don't know which it should be) has demanded that said joker be held on trial.

edited 31st Mar '13 3:04:07 PM by MarqFJA

Well assuming this guy is in Syria is there little these companies/other countries/NG Os can do to him beyond freezing his assets and restricting his right to travel. Least until Assad falls.

Those reporters are already under constant threat anyway, he won't silence them this way.

If you had read the article, you would have know that he lives in Kuwait.

In other news, Libya is undergoing new turmoil.

Is every last one of these brigades now led by short-sighted, impatient fools??

The group in the first article were just conducting a non-violent sit-in. And all they want is for the law to be enforced. You could even see that as a healthy form of protest. I dont see any reason to assume that the second incident is in any way related to the first.

As in the other thread, I have declared the spring has largely lead to back to business as usual.And I will use new material this time.

Is it wrong to also assume that our western governments seem to have pitiful grasp on politics in the region?

Governments? Maybe.

Populace? Definitely.

I see your think tank and raise you an active and assertive feminist movement in Egypt. While attitudes among conservative remain medieval, Egyptian feminists are not taking it lying down. Egypt has a long way to go, as does the rest of the region, but they are making progress.

You are, however, correct in assuming that our governments are basically clueless.

So I cited on yack fest someone who predicted this mess before it happened, any of you manage (or see someone manage it?) Anyone else blame the loyalty to "Sharia" government and caliphate cause I do?

This sounds a lot like "I told you so, ha!"

While making an assumption that the Spring is over.

edited 1st Apr '13 8:29:23 PM by DirectorCannon

Its not over but it is not looking pretty either.

Yeah, countries don't turn into stable corruption-free democracies overnight. Very few Western countries can claim to have had such a clean ideal transition; the major foreign supporters of the Libyan revolution (U.S, France, U.K., Italy) certainly didn't.

EDIT TO CLARIFY: I'm not saying "go easy on the regressive elements there". I'm saying "if we get something remotely like Turkey or Indonesia in five years it will be an unprecedented success".

edited 1st Apr '13 8:35:47 PM by RadicalTaoist

Aye. Maybe in twenty years it'll all still be unsettled; I disagree that the new governments are turning into caliphates complete with sharia law. Morsi's government is proving more and more corrupt and authoritarian, but there's a vital difference between that and theocracy. Of course Salafi groups are going to make trouble, and in some cases even influence the course of government, but I doubt they have the power base needed to consolidate power into single-party authoritarian states, let alone authoritarian states driven by religion.

Street bullying and thuggery is one thing, assumption and consolidation of power is another.

Well I didn't tell you so. I was all optimistic about the rebellions and then I looked at the news. Then I saw a book from back in 2011 basically saying "do not get your hopes up" and realized I was a fool.

Egypt for example, voted that guy in. The place where it started right, the big leader in new freedom and they go with the terrorist, apostate killing, dhimmitude fundamentalists we all know and love. Syrian civil war does not seem to have slowed its intake of slaves, Sudanese are still calling for the destruction of "the west", new waves of murder are spilling around over poorly made youtube videos... well the press is still optimistic on Yemen.

Look at you guys...you don't get everything you hoped for, and suddenly the Spring's a failure.

I'll tell you the same thing I'd tell conservatives, fundamentalists, or radical leftists.

That's politics.

You're never going to get everything you want. Deal with it. Be content with the fact that every country that's changed leadership is now markedly better. Isn't that an improvement? Don't just go calling the Spring a failure. People have short memories, but the Summer preceding it kind of sucked.

Which is fine if you believe every new boss was a marked improvement. I don't buy it though.

But to each his own, I am just going to let my optimism sit with Yemen and start collecting salt pork to donate to Egypt eat in protest.