Pokemon Special/Adventures

Well maybe the story won't end up exactly like the games but I've read it up until the first battle with N and those first chapters are being sold in English as mini-graphic novels at bookstores. It's started off exactly like the games; the main hero, Cheren, and Bianca get their pokemon from Professor Juniper and mess up the room battling with them, Ghetsis makes his speech in Accumula Town, which is immediatly followed by a battle with N. So...not a very good first impression.

What I really don't like about the story is Black. I already had to deal with two obnoxious heroes (Ruby and Emerald) and this guy is looking to be just as bad. He's a typical Shonen Idiot Hero done wrong and I don't look forward to having to follow a whole story around him.

And why'd they even make him an Idiot Hero to begin with? Bianca's already a bit of an idiot while Cheren is super smart, shouldn't the main protagonist been more...normal to balance them out?

edited 21st Aug '11 9:06:23 PM by ManwiththePlan

Wait, are you sure this is the Pokemon Special manga? There is more then one Pokemon manga, after all. For all I know, there shouldn't be so much organized chapters yet. They are being released at a more or less random order. And they most certainly shouldn't be being sold in English yet.

Have you even seem White yet?

edited 21st Aug '11 9:16:12 PM by Heatth

Hrm, yeah, wouldn't the Pokemon Special manga have "White" as a character too?

It has. I am sure of it. Haven't read but have read one or two spoilers. She is a reporter or something like that. She has a female fire-pig, to match Black's.

edited 21st Aug '11 10:01:24 PM by Heatth

Wait, are you sure this is the Pokemon Special manga? There is more then one Pokemon manga, after all.

Yes, it's Pokemon Special. In English, this arc isn't even called "Pokemon Adventures", but it's Special allright. The characters being named Black and White should be a giveaway.

She is a reporter or something like that. She has a female fire-pig, to match Black's.

You got the second detail right, but she's actually the head of a pokemon loaning business, pretty much the boss of her own little company. She doesn't know how to battle either, which I really hope changes over the course of the story or that'll be another thing that puts me off. I quite like the character but...previous heroines much younger than her were allowed to be Bad Ass, she oughta be too!

As for Black...well, he's such an Idiot Hero that his brain can't function regularly unless he puts Munna on his head. 'Cause otherwise, all he thinks about is becoming the League Champion.

edited 21st Aug '11 10:19:48 PM by ManwiththePlan

Weird. The "first chapter" of the scanlated manga don't even have Cheren and Bianca, unlike you claimed. Are you reading the English release? Maybe that means USA is, somehow, getting the volumes before Japan? Again: Weird.

Oh, I haven't read it yet, of course, but I totally can see why Black was made an Idiot Hero who wants to become the League champion. Black And White was somewhat of a 'back to origins' for the games, so it is only natural for the manga to follow the suit. Black is the first main character who wants to become the champion since Red, and that is quite appropriate.

edited 21st Aug '11 11:39:43 PM by Heatth

I love how the BW arc is rolling so far. I love how Black and White and how their characters interact. White by all accounts owns Black due to his debt but she treats him like a human being and actually tries to teach him how to properly interact in human society without being all pretentious about it. Not to mention her organizing skills are in fact pretty impressive and admirable. Black is one of the few hotblooded shonen characters who actually reads and studies about shit before charging headfirst into things. You want to be the Champion? Yeah, whatever, good luck to you and all the others. You actually studied everything you needed to become Champion? Oh yeah, go for it! I'll be rooting for someone who's actually serious about his shit!

I now take Team Plasma and their speeches seriously. Helps now that I can actually see people's reactions to it and Ghethis didn't look so obviously evil when he first came out despite him still in his snuggie.

Also, I love how N is portrayed as a creepy stalker, because he totally was one in the games. And he kicks Black's ass the first time too.

Oh yeah, finally, Poke Spe has the most complicated magazine release ever, as it is serialized in three different magazines, and out of order to boot. The scanlator only gets one of the magazines, so we've only been getting a third of the story released so far from him. Viz, of course, has all three magazines at its disposal and will be giving it to us in the correct order.

edited 22nd Aug '11 6:39:07 AM by TheViolentTomboy

I've been trying to read Poke Spe but the lack of characterization for the Pokemon themselves is really putting me off. The characterization of the human characters seems a bit shallower than it could be, too. The action scenes are good which is great if you like that stuff but it just doesn't grab me.

The pokemon could be characterized more, yes, but I see nothing "shallow" about the way most of the humans are characterized. Some are shallow (Ruby, Sapphire, Emerald, and Black for instance) but most of them (especially non-main protagonist characters) are interesting and true to how they were in the games. And this may be bias, but I've always found the human characters more engaging than the pokemon themselves in this franchise (seeing as the pokemon in the games had little to no personality too), so it doesn't really bother me.

Weird. The "first chapter" of the scanlated manga don't even have Cheren and Bianca, unlike you claimed. Are you reading the English release? Maybe that means USA is, somehow, getting the volumes before Japan? Again: Weird

Yes, I'm sure. The scalated manga does indeed begin with Black and White's first meeting, but that's the second volume in the US. The first doesn't have White and it's all about Black, Cheren, and Bianca getting their pokemon from Professor Juniper.

I totally can see why Black was made an Idiot Hero who wants to become the League champion. Black And White was somewhat of a 'back to origins' for the games, so it is only natural for the manga to follow the suit. Black is the first main character who wants to become the champion since Red, and that is quite appropriate.

The problem is that he's a Idiot Hero done wrong. Early Red and Gold were good Idiot Heroes, but a guy who's such an idiot obsessed with his goal that he has to quite literally make himself look like a butthead to think properly is offputting. I don't like Ash in the anime because he doesn't have motivation to be doing what he's doing anymore. With Black it's the opposite: so far, his goal IS his character.

Black is one of the few hotblooded shonen characters who actually reads and studies about shit before charging headfirst into things.

And again, he does so by putting a Munna on his head! That's....REALLY dumb!

Also, I love how N is portrayed as a creepy stalker, because he totally was one in the games. And he kicks Black's ass the first time too.

I'm not a big fan of how creepy and freakish they made N in this manga but I understand the direction they're going with him; he's a Creepy Stalker like in the games but unlike his game counterpart, he's had ZERO practice in socially interacting with other humans, whereas in the games you get the sense that he has but he's just pretty akward about it. Thus why he comes off as so strange and L-esque in the manga.

edited 22nd Aug '11 9:59:12 AM by ManwiththePlan

Yeah, this is why I can't get into it, either, the rapid-fire pacing and impossible to follow action scenes, aside.

The writing, story, and characters are as puddle deep as any official Pokémon media, but they've somehow managed to forget about the titular creatures as anything other than plot devices. Dragon Balls that shoot fire, more or less. Even the smart ones like Mewtwo or the legendaries aren't treated as anything fancier than a dog/bird/dragon/mutant kangaroo shaped trophy.

Actually, Black's studies do show up. He uses his Munna in unfamiliar situations and doesn't use them in official matches, as he learned who the hell all eight gym leaders, Elite Four members, and the Champion are, up and including their teams, and tries to formulate a plan before facing them.

I think Poke Spe treats the titular 'mons pretty damn well, all things considered. Legendaries are saved up and built towards for final, epic clashes at the end of arcs (with gen 4 looking like they're going to have every single Sinnoh legendary locked into one giant battle). Legendaries are treated to a means to an end here, yes...but that's a pretty normal way of thinking for any bad guy. They're still capable of destructive shit, as Kyogre and Groudon lay siege on Hoenn for a few weeks straight...

One thing I do notice though is that Pokemon are treated like intelligent animals, yes, they're smart, but they don't have any higher concepts and that they need humans to truly fight efficiently. A lot of times in the anime, Pokemon seem so smart and pull off things in the battle on their own I wonder why they even need trainers. Besides, ultimately, while human-Pokemon bonds are important and shown plenty of times here, I'm mostly interested in human character development; I want to see the human grow because, well, I'm human and I don't identify so well with chickens or whatever.

Also, have you seen the FRLG arc? Mewtwo was frackin' awesome there and after that, you could never dismiss him as another' Mon.

edited 23rd Aug '11 5:06:22 AM by TheViolentTomboy

You put it much better than I ever could have.

the rapid-fire pacing and impossible to follow action scenes,

The pace is usually good. And the actions scenes impossible to follow? What?

The writing, story, and characters are as puddle deep as any official Pokémon media, but they've somehow managed to forget about the titular creatures as anything other than plot devices. Dragon Balls that shoot fire, more or less. Even the smart ones like Mewtwo or the legendaries aren't treated as anything fancier than a dog/bird/dragon/mutant kangaroo shaped trophy.

Again, I like pokemon getting characterization every now and then but...what character did they have in the original games? I think fans like you have been spoiled by the anime's overfocus on pokemon that you can't stomach an adaptation where they're just important plot device superpowered animals.

And as someone already stated, if you make a pokemon seem TOO intelligent, the Unfortunate Implications of trainers commanding them to battle for them gets WORSE.

edited 23rd Aug '11 8:38:11 AM by ManwiththePlan

Well, maybe you can follow the action, but I really had no idea what was going on half the time. :/

Huh. this manga has some of the easiest action scenes to follow, I found.

As opposed to the one-note human characters? We haven't had a character with anything resembling depth in those games aside from Silver and N.

It's a little of that and a little of this:

Adventures just isn't interesting on its own merits. Neither is the anime, frankly, but the latter is smart enough to play up what made the games the smash hit they are.

The Pokémon.

As opposed to the one-note human characters? We haven't had a character with anything resembling depth in those games aside from Silver and N.

Bullshit.

Wally. Your rival from Diamond/Pearl/Platinum. Cyrus. Cheren. Bianca. Alder. All the Pokemon professors to a varying degree. There have been several other characters with a level of depth and development to them.

Adventures just isn't interesting on its own merits.

Many disagree on you there.

the latter is smart enough to play up what made the games the smash hit they are: the Pokemon.

Who were just there to be caught and to fight in the games, with no personality of their own, yet by your own admission, the games still became smash hits and deemed good. See a hole in your logic here? By your logic, if the Pokemon having characterization is necessary for a series to be good, the games never should have caught on to begin with, and then we wouldn't have a "Pokemon" franchise now, would we?

edited 23rd Aug '11 6:04:13 PM by ManwiththePlan

Not to mention that the manga treats Pokemon as, y'know, an actual threat. It's probably because the anime was geared towards kid, but you don't often get the "Holy crap, these things could kill someone" vibe from the anime. The manga, on the other hand...

Regarding your last point: Keep in mind that the games are in a completely different format from either the anime or the manga - they're something you play as opposed to something you watch - and as such has a different set of requirements and limitations from either. It'd be incredibly difficult for the games to give a personality to every single 'mon you catch, but that doesn't mean they have to be dumb, characterless animals. How many players come up with their own personalities for their team members, after all? It's just like putting yourself in the shoes of the mute protagonist - they're silent and characterless, but no adaption would ever keep that. On the other hand, with the anime and manga, you're not interacting directly with the 'verse any more - you're watching it as an observer. Since there's no player inserting themselves here, the protagonist needs to be given a character of is own, and since the "characters" of the Pokemon come from the player as well, those should be invented, too. The anime realized this; the manga didn't. (The manga generally seems to have trouble telling what's an actual part of the 'verse and what's just a game mechanic/limitation. Hypnosis has 60% accuracy, guys! Uh-huh.)

Also, making the 'mons completely sub-human totally kills that whole "power of friendship" thing the franchise has going on.

Sure, except that even the series' creator says that the manga is closest to what he envisions the world of Pokemon to be like. The anime just doesn't compare.

Yes, exactly. I'm not saying pokemon have to be or have ever been unintelligent; heck, they've got to have their own inner character if N's "hearing their voices" is to make sense. Not to mention the games sometimes tell you what their nature is and how they feel about you. But...there's just only so much you can get out of superpowered creatures who can only say their own names. In the end, the trainer is meant to be the main character. The pokemon are his/her partners that he/she can't do much without. And I personally enjoy the series better that way.

edited 23rd Aug '11 7:26:13 PM by ManwiththePlan

Okay, so it's your opinion that the series is better that way. It's my opinion that the series is better with more characterization for the 'mons themselves. Let's agree to disagree on this.

I still like the feel of the anime better than the manga. The creator saying he likes the manga better doesn't change that. Sorry. :P

That said, is there a better place to read this besides Mangareader (besides actually buying it)? I'm almost enjoying the GS arc but the site seems to be missing chapters.

edited 23rd Aug '11 7:39:07 PM by YamiiDenryuu

Okay, so it's your opinion that the series is better that way. It's my opinion that the series is better with more characterization for the 'mons themselves. Let's agree to disagree on this.

I was mainly debating with Hashil on the matter. You can have your opinion.

I still like the feel of the anime better than the manga. The creator saying he likes the manga better doesn't change that. Sorry. :P

I don't think anyone is saying that you HAVE to like the manga better just because the creator prefered it. If you think the anime does Pokemon better, that's you're preference. I personally think the anime missed the mark on what really makes Pokemon great for the longest time until recently, while the manga "got it" for the longest time until recently, but I'm not going to say you NEED to think that way too.

edited 23rd Aug '11 7:52:34 PM by ManwiththePlan

You can still bond with creature that don't have human intelligence. Humans bond with horses, cats, dogs, even pigs, whatever in real life too. I've read some truly heartwarming animal stories before.

I kinda feel that if/when Team Plasma is properly brought into the anime canon, the existence of Meowth will open so many cans of worms.

Also, go search jb2448 info and click on the first thing that pops up for scanlations. Meet some fans there. The guy who runs the site is a pretty cool guy.

I feel like somethings changed in Adventures/special are unnecessary. I could never read any of the Black and White but still question why (Hilbert)Black's primary Pokemon had to be Munna, considering it's practically the signature Pokemon of two other game characters the player regularly interacts with. Pretty much any Pokemon could have been used since his mother is a trainer...but that's light compared to Wally and Ralts, who're supposed to grow along side each other. Ruby could had any wild Ralts, why did it have to be that Ralts?

The need to eat dreams sounds like an interesting story telling device but did it have to done to Black? Did he need to have a Pokemon before Juniper? Yeah, that's how the special always does things but I don't think it's always necessary. I know Emerald has his fans but I figured a lot about him could have been done with the game's rival already. Sceptile? Wally always had an empty spot on his team. Nickname for the third game? Wally has green hair. Battle Frontier? He could do that, his team can rival the champion's. A starter would do him wonders.

Admittedly I can't find a better adaptation of Pokemon. It's miles ahead of the cartoon(It at least has Wally and Black for a start)