Tales Series

The Tales series usually does a pretty good job with its female characters, as far as writing goes. At least from what I've seen. Helps that the series is usually character-focused in general. It varies from game to game, and occasionally you get dumb sexist jokes or other uncomfortable crap, but I'd say it's above average in general. Not the best I've seen, but far from the worst.

...I remember that early Rays had more random sexism than usual for some reason. Mostly from the original cast, and mostly so existing characters could be like "hey wait a minute," but some bits were really jarring.

I kinda hope they have another female lead somewhere down the line. Probably not for a while, since we just had Velvet, but I hope they don't just go "welp, we've checked that box off the list, now we never have to do it again."

Edited by SapphireBlue on Apr 3rd 2019 at 3:07:57 AM

I'd say in general Tales (especially the mobile games) have a bigger problem with uncomfortable sexualization of women and children than other forms of sexism. Though some games are definitely worse about sexist themes than others (looking at you, Graces) and some sidequests have Unfortunate Implications.

Edited by PhiSat on Apr 3rd 2019 at 4:23:44 AM

Honestly there's no harm in Tales series going for the female protag once again so soon after their last one and if anyone says otherwise, well, [strike:i've got my eye on you pal] thats your thing

Velvet just being some quota point so they'd never have to do that again would be sad especially when damn near everyone flipflops on whether Velvet was the first true solo female protag or if it was Milla and nobody can reach a bloody consensus jesus when did we all turn into sodding Two-Face

I mean, given that you can choose Jude instead, Milla kinda half counts in my eyes which is still cool, but Velvet being undisputably the primary lead with a male character as her co-lead is nice compared to the standard male lead/female co-lead setup. I'd love for another female lead since there's no reason not to and we've had plenty of male leads already. Hardly seems like it'd be particularly difficult.

Exactly. If Square can do the right royal fuck out of it, so can Namco. Hell, a transgender female protag would be all sorts of cool and refreshing.

By Westerners, maybe.

By the Japanese, hope you're ready for some camp gay character. Seriously, I can't think of a single transgender character that didn't act flamboyant in Japanese media. Or at least their popular media.

Yeah.

I don't think we'll be seeing that kind of thing in Japanese media for a long while.

And they already have enough issues with their female characters too remember, even if Tales is usually better about it.

Which is a shame considering the series is okay to have protags who are clones, temporal anomalies, beast people or antisocials. But yet Japanese audiences still aren't ready for transgender protahs. Or even respectful transgender rep on the first place.

I mean Lily was a huge step in the right direction but still

I don't mind her attacking Raven so much because he is considerably bigger and stronger than she is and could probably easily stop her if it really bothered him that much

Karol's a tiny kid, and that's just bullying.

Yeah, that's it. Considering what we learn about Raven later on, I get the feeling 90% of the time he was just letting her do it...

I also like to think that during the Schwann boss battle, even though he planned to die, he did make it a habit to shut down her spells every chance he got as a bit of revenge (though also out of pragmatism).

Yeah, there is that at least.

Oh, finally some topic movement.

On the subject of 'Abuse is OK if its Female on Male': it would have been better if Rita's only instances were directed at Raven, since the 'pervy old man' is also represented in Vesperia and most of the times... yes, they need a down to earth female to smack some sense into them. But she also smacks Karol a bit too frequently, the excuse being he's a kid and 'kids are annoying'... at least for her. It shows how lacking her social skills are, and that sets her up for growth which is what good characters get. Eventually.

Another instance of abuser that gets into Kombat's nerves is the R version of Hisui, since he is a bit too trigger happy to smack / threaten people and most of his good moments were transfered to Galland in order to paint him as the Team Dad. I'd say it is understandable (not justifiable.) since in their fantasy world of magic even women or children can give you a beating and Humans Are the Biggest Monsters, so he doesn't discriminate.

About that, and relating it to 'female protagonist yes or no': Yes if it's needed for the plot, or it does not matter. I mean, Milla could have been male if old Maxwell wanted it to be. I guess Velvet could have been male too, but comparisons to Eleanor's justice / Theresa's borderline incestuous love would not work... so we would need to genderbend more people (Laphi could have stayed male?) Velvet's case did not happen since it would be a repeat of the Ludger-Elle duo.

(On a side tangent: about the 'sexualizing of women and children'... I'd say that some characters are required to be women or kids as part of the plot. The Tales Series isn't one where you can slap a 'this character is 18, even if it totally looks 12' tag and call it a day like Dead Or Alive or Senran Kagura. So if Namco keeps on using kids I hope their design is appropiate. I will always remember you that Presea has the most scandalous swimsuit in Symphonia, Elly has the most fetishized set of costumes in the Xillias... and what even keeps Edna and Symmone's clothes from dissolving when someone sneezes in their vicinity?)

Transgender? So you mean like Ange? I don't think Namco will do actual transgenders. I could see them doing crossdressers and them being interesting (hello, Faris.) but nothing 'too' out of the norm. At most, 'magic' transgenders like reincarnations / curses / body swap.

I am on my last PSP game and after that comes the Vita backlog, so I will be narrating Hearts R here real soon, mainly focused on differences between DS and Vita features. But to get used to the Vita's ultra-small D'pad and flimsy analog I wanna play Persona 4 first since it's turn based... and the game that 90% of Vita owners first played on the console So yeah, convince me to play Hearts first if you dare.

Edited by FlightMaster on Apr 8th 2019 at 3:13:30 PM

Hearts R thought it'd be funny to add a scene where Hisui punches Beryl and of course nobody talks about it because of course. I'm not letting go of that.

Your grip is iron tight. This we know.

Also Namco should stop being such cowards and include any sort of transgender rep that isn't crap. Anything better than what p-studio's been doing as of late would be a good start I mean shit, look at Lily from Zombie Land Saga.

Hearts R did not think to put any scene where Hisui gets punched back by a woman. But he and his sister were being pursued by Incarose before the game's start, a woman looking cyborg. He has all the right to be defensive towards suspicious women.

But I was trying to say that their world is not ours. Hitting someone is wrong, and if it is someone weaker is doubly wrong. But in a place where a soma, blastias, expheres, nanites, ninja training or being a person-shaped mass of pure mana is common, women and kids are NOT automatically weaker than a recently-of-legal-age man. What is wrong here is Hisui releasing his frustrations on a girl who never meant him harm, that's Beryl.

That reminds me of a wild guessing made by that one friend I played Tales with. What would happen if Yuri had to live in [the Zestiria verse] and Rose was moved to (post blastias breaking?) Terca Lumireis. This is his question, but I can add my own: what if Hisui and Rita had to cohabit in the same party.

Whew, the Vita still switches on, even after all this time. Hope the battery does not die suddenly.

Edited by FlightMaster on Apr 10th 2019 at 3:57:01 PM

I will say, I agree with your point regarding hitting people likely being a little more equal in Tales games, but like, Karol and Beryl are both kids, so hitting them just feels kinda shitty regardless. I mean, Rita's honestly not much older than Karol (only two years, which is likely why the developers went with it as a gag), but it still seems kinda suspect, and while I dunno the specific ages of Hisui and Beryl, the difference seems like it'd be even larger than the one between Rita and Karol (I'd place at a glance Hisui at 18-19 and Beryl at 13, dunno how accurate this is), which is a pretty notable difference.

As for Rita and Hisui in the same party, I dunno what Hisui's buttons are as far as what gets him mad, but assuming either of them could get the other mad, they'd probably cartoonishly cloud of violence within 5 minutes of meeting each other.

Except Beryl was not being the least bit effing suspicious, the most she did was suggesting they just hightail it out of there, forgetting about Kohaku, that didn't warrant fucking misogynist violence. Don't try to rationalize what Hisui does.

And yeah, both Rita and Hisui can piss off and rip each other's throats out.

I almost think Pascal is an apology for Rita. Baically its Rita but replace being an unpleasant moody "anti-social" bitch with being a wacky hyperactive 10 year old excited at everything

I doubt that. Pascal is just a wackier Harold with less Comedic Sociopathy. I wouldn't really compare her to Rita except that they're both science types, they're not very alike at all.

I dislike Rita bullying Karol and being an asshole to people for really dumb reasons, but I like her character development out of that.

@ Alfric: well, that's the difference. Hitting people that deserve it, women or not = good. But hitting ones who are suppossed to be your friends / allies = shitty. By the way, I dunno if Hisui is much older than 20, but she is 18. She is legal. Just that she is veeery short.

@ Kombat: what I said above. But like Alfric said, 'mysoginistic' in the Tales universe would be NOT hitting women / kids because 'I am a man so I am stronger than them by default'. Yes, gender relations in a fantasy world are... complicated. Waaait. Beryl suggested leaving Kohaku in the dust? There you have it! His sister is Hisui's Berserk Button.

TLDR: hitting friends = still shitty. So don't think I am defending Hisui or something.

(Yes, Pascal is a step up from Rita. Congrats where it is due, Namco.)

Guess I will have to answer my own question, but yeah, the worst that could happen with Hisui and Rita in the same room would be Punch Punch Kiss. About Yuri and Rose switching places: Yuri would most likely have doubts about what he did, so BAM! Another afable hellion like Rokuro. Rose will NEVER, ever regret what she did... so she would be fired from the Union and-or face pursuit from the Don himself (and the Empire) every single fruitin' day for the rest of her life.

Because you know... Rose is Rose.

Edited by FlightMaster on Apr 10th 2019 at 8:25:51 PM

Rose's writing would end up colliding with Vesperia's halfway decent writing. That'd be funny.

Beryl isn't a kid and she would be very upset at you calling her one

Don't pretend Rose and Yuri wouldn't be MURDER BUDDIES

cheerful bisexuals saving the world one corpse at a time

Edited by asterism on Apr 12th 2019 at 5:30:43 AM

I could see them getting along, yeah.

Well apart from rose not seeming the list bit affected by it. Even Yuri had to rexamine his ideology after what happened with Estelle.