Super Smash Bros.

Undertale has massive sales and critical praise though. The memes are just a byproduct.

Edited by RAlexa21th on Sep 9th 2019 at 7:04:11 AM

Yeah, but not Sans itself.

Also I wouldn't really compare that (legacy isn't sales, legacy implies you're already an old thing) to something that practically established a lot of Fighting game norms that people falsely attribute to Capcom.

Edited by Ookamikun on Sep 9th 2019 at 10:10:43 PM

I am merely contesting the idea that Sans is in because if memes. He is "in" because he has the most iconic moment in an acclaimed game (even though fans' love for it is kind of a Misaimed Fandom imo) and has a great theme song.

Edited by RAlexa21th on Sep 9th 2019 at 7:14:47 AM

Technically his costume is in. But yeah that's generally my point, yeah the game has acclaim but more often people are noisy about memes than anything else.

It's like people bitching about Incineroar in some ways (funny that, given Terry is friends with many wrestlers in FF).

I've seen a lot of people disregard Sans because of "memes" but like... those exist because he's a popular and well-liked character.

More or less. Undertale is one of the best games ever made imho, and while I expected Frisk to be playable first the Sans costume having a detailed Gaster Blaster and an original Megalovania remix by Toby Fox is a huge, *huge* treat.

I saw Maximillian Dood's reaction to both Terry and the rest of the Direct (they're two separate videos), and weirdly enough the fighting game community that follows his channel is dismissive of the Sans costume as Generation Z stuff i.e. for dumb kids. It was sad to see, I thought people calling Terry lame was bad but some Terry supporters go the other way and mock Undertale stuff, oh well.

Edited by DoorCurtain on Sep 9th 2019 at 7:38:16 AM

Wouldn't you react the same way when something is a massive meme? Like imagine if Jones gets in.

It really shows the generation gap and "traditional" fighting games' sharp decline after the 90's. Nowadays, unless you are DBZ, Tekken, or Smash, the kids will forget you quickly.

What Jones? Let's not forget Sonic is a massive meme too, for several... reasons. At least Sans memes are positive towards him.

Edited by RAlexa21th on Sep 9th 2019 at 7:42:31 AM

The recurring Fortnite guy. Also as the post above said, generation gap, but there's something else about memes born from this generation compared to Sonic and his contemporaries or Shrek.

Edited by Ookamikun on Sep 9th 2019 at 10:43:43 PM

...the only reoccurring fortnight thing i see is a llama >.>

You mean a character from one of the most popular modern video games?

I wouldn't "like" it because I don't play Fortnite but I'd completely understand it. Same with Steve.

Edited by LordVatek on Sep 9th 2019 at 10:45:44 AM

Terry’s heavily memed too (“are you okay..?”), one of the more memed characters in fighting games, really - and has ridden a wave of particularly crazy ones these days since SNK Heroines. But - like Sans - the idea that he’s somehow less of a character because people choose to make memes about him doesn’t make any sense.

As mentioned, those memes exist because the character is iconic and well liked.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 9th 2019 at 7:53:08 AM

That said, I do agree that Sans memes at the expense of Terry are very annoying, though they are just a symptom of the fanbase's Fan Myopia (or the opposite of it).

Honestly, the negative memes get annoying too.

Either way, it's great to see a popular character get some love in Smash. I can only hope we get some stray spirits too~

Terry was a meme but that was a decade ago. Very few remember his Engrish. Like, I wish he was still meme'd.

Edited by Ookamikun on Sep 9th 2019 at 11:02:46 PM

The only thing I know about Terry is his Engrish.

For good reason.

They still print "are you okay" shirts (which is a different meme than the Engrish), so the Terry memes aren't dead yet. And like I said, the Terry meme presence got a boost after SNK Heroines.

Furthermore, when he was memed is somewhat irrelevant to the question (if anything, it's accentuates it: Terry's so out of the public eye that for some people who know of it, all they know is those memes). Unless there's a statute of limitations in regards to characters going viral after which they become suitable to acknowledge officially.

Here's another one: Villager is a meme. Should he have been removed from Smash Ultimate up until the point where the memes from Smash 4 died down?

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 9th 2019 at 8:23:55 AM

Yeah that sums it up.

nah its definitely dead, otherwise people would have been memeing about the Engrish outside the fgc. Terry being in Heroines is more of him being the SNK icon. Also Villager got in before his meme icon.

Edited by Ookamikun on Sep 9th 2019 at 11:59:17 PM

Nothing about being memetic requires everyone to be spreading the meme for it to count as one.

And either way, you're avoiding the question(s). What's the statute of limitations on being viral? How memed does character have to be before everything about that character besides the meme ceases to matter? What is it about having gone viral that makes a character invalid for Smash, regardless of the significance of the game they came from or - in turn - their significance to that game?

I ask because these nagging questions are why I said this didn't make sense before. Given that being memed is a completely separate thing from the substance of the character, there has to be a reason why the former renders the latter nonexistent in Sans' - and for some reason only Sans' - case.

Besides Hype Backlash, of course, since that would be a totally subjective idea based on personal distaste of a meme, rather than anything that has to do with the character themselves.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 9th 2019 at 9:18:22 AM

A meme dies only when people universally stop spreading it. That it still propagates within certain circles means that its simply found it social niche.

The duality of the Smash fandom is screaming "hoes mad" only to be overshadowed by a mii costume and getting real upset about it.

Hey don't look at me, I don't oppose any inclusion. I'm simply explaining why.

A meme becoming stuck in a niche is a fruitless explanation when we're talking about say an internet audience.

Also what, if anything the smash fanbase loves them some Sans and Geno while abhor "nobodies" like Terry and Hero.

Edited by Ookamikun on Sep 10th 2019 at 12:25:07 AM

Let's move on to other topics.