Super Smash Bros.

It's kinda funny how Ryu is the most basic and easy-to-use Street Fighter character, but one of the most complicated Smash characters.

Idle thought based on a previous conversation: if the Smash 64 characters were added to the series now, the one with the least changes to their moveset would probably be Pikachu.

This is nicely demonstrating why I hate traditional fighting games. I shouldn't have to memorize some obscene button combo just to use a damn move.

I honestly don't have a problem with button combinations in fighting games. Sure, in something like Tekken, there's just way too many moves, but in most 2D Fighters? It's easy-peasy.

Yeah, Ryu has like, four special moves, and they’re all based around the same basic movement. Someone like Guile pretty much only has two. Remembering the moves is less difficult than executing some of them (looking at you, Zangief).

Seriously, who thought 360's and 720's were a good idea?

Microsoft.

I can never do them. I always end up jumping. Part of the reason I stopped buying Capcom fighting games.

Probably.

He wouldn't have Skull Bash if added today, though. I think perhaps Volt Tackle would be used in its place, filling a similar mechanical purpose. And in its stead, Catastropika would be Pikachu's Final Smash.

Only other change is maybe changing Thunder Jolt's name to Thunder Shock.

Another thing what comes to mind if Donkey Kong would be animalistic as he still is. Or at least if he would still have the same gorilla grunts as he does.

Tropers/VampireBuddha

No way I'm going to let someone put so much effort into & not participate in it.

1. Peach

2. Bowser

3. Ice Climbers

4. Sheik

5. Dr. Mario

6. Falco

7. Young Link

8. Ganondorf

9. Pichu

10. Mewtwo

11. Marth

12. Pretty sure it's called "Binding Blade", Roy

13. Mr. Game & Watch

14. Zero Suit Samus

15. Diddy Kong

16. Pokemon Trainer

17. Meta Knight

18. What!? Uh Dedede?

19. Ike

20. Lucas

21. Olimar

22. Pit

23. Lucario

24. R.O.B

25. Wario

26. Toon Link

27. Wolf Link?

28. Snake

29. Sonic

30. Villager

31. Rosalina

32. No idea

33. Slippy?

34. No idea

35. Zato-1?

36. Robin/Avatar

37. Lucina/Lucy

38. Shulk

39. No clue

40. Duck Hunt Dog

41. Megaman

42. Michelangelo?

43. Mii Fighters

44. Ryu

45. Cloud Strife

46. Midna

47. Bayonetta

48. Inkling

49. Princess Daisy

50. Ridley

51. Simon Belmont

52. Ricter Belmont

53. Rex & Pyra

54. Dark Samus

55. King K. Rool

Do I win something?

You can't just casually pick up KOF or Skullgirls just on that premise alone. There require practice & effort just like anything else.

Those inputs are in SNK & Arc games as well, not just Capcom.

Yeah, but I’ve never played any of those, so I wouldn’t know that. :P

Seriously, Netherrealm-style dual-a-combo all the way for me. Smash and Mortal Kombat/Injustice are the only fighting games I make a point to buy anymore, even though I love the genre.

Edited by BadWolf21 on Sep 13th 2018 at 8:25:32 AM

Well yeah. I'm just saying that the button combos themselves are not a problem. But stringing them together into combos in the heat of the moment can be a different story.

BTW Golden Sun got trademarks today just.

There's a couple of well made fighters now that will detect you're attempting a 360 or 720 motion and lock your character in place while you do them. Skullgirls at least but I'm certain there are others.

Yeah, They're hard to do, but I've never played a fighter where more than 2 or 3 characters have them - kind of like how Ryu's relatively more complex inputs here are something potential fans of his might work towards mastering, I think it's the same principal: if you absolutely can't do them there's an entire roster with easier to perform moves otherwise.

Players can easily become bummed out if their favorite character is hard to use.

Precisely. On the rare occasion I play Street Fighter, I CAN play as Bison or Ken. But sometimes, I want to be a wrestler, and I don’t have the knack for it, so I get frustrated and put the game down and go play things I’m good at for months before thinking “why don’t I play Street Fighter that often?” and the whole cycle starts again.

Funny you say that, because Ness is one of the most braindead characters in the competitive scene. His recovery is the only hard thing about him, and it's still easier to learn than ever.

Lucas I'll give you since his footstool combos are what make him good (er, "good"), but even then dthrow > uair is pretty braindead as well and lucas isnt hard to play outside of the footstool combos.

If you think Ryu is a complicated Smash character boy do i have news for you. Ryu gets a ton of mileage out of utilt and backair spam, and his down b is easy to use for landing. Now, I'm not gonna say Ryu is easy. quite the opposite, but true shoryu and whatnot aren't the hardest things about him.

Ryu is top tier right?

Not Bayo/Cloud/Diddy tier but he is up there

Bottom of A tier, according to the most recent listing.

Ryu is certainly up there. I'd argue he's more high tier than top tier, but he's really freaking good. Certainly top 15, arguably top 10.

Though be sure not to confuse how good a character is with how complicated they are. Diddy is relatively easy but he's 2nd or 3rd best free. Lucina is probably the easiest character in the game but she's top 15. Same with Mario, who's top 10.

Edited by EpicBleye on Sep 13th 2018 at 11:33:07 AM

The reason Ryu is at the bottom of the top tier is that no one uses him, but the few results he has are really good.

So you're saying that tier lists can be slightly misleading at times?

For the record, the tier list is super widely agreed to be incredibly out of date. Both DK and Bowser are generally agreed to be much higher than C Tier, and Link and Samus both have been getting really solid results that they're definitely not D Tier. But that's all developments that have happened since the last tier list dropped.

I wouldn't call the tier list misleading so much as "there's debate over these character's positions"

Edited by EpicBleye on Sep 13th 2018 at 11:37:01 AM

Tier lists are generally accurate, but nowhere near absolute - for one it's based off of current knowledge, so if some polarising exploit isn't discovered yet then that's not gonna affect the tier list.

What would be more useful for a player to learn are the individual match-ups, though that is both a LOOOT longer and less interesting, and I haven't seen one compiled in a while, not to mention Ultimate already has over 70 fighters with more on the way.