Paradox Games

Yeah, removing Deus Vult is fine to me, especially because they could have the literal translation of it: "God Wills It".

So no different from now, then.

I'm all for completely dropping the phrase. "God wills it", the literal English translation, has the same energy without being a pervasive fascist dogwhistle.

Now, anyway. If Paradox makes the change, it'll become a Fascist dog whistle.

It ... already is mate.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."

I think what Journeyman was saying is that if you replace "Deus Vult" with "God Wills It", then "God Wills It" will become the nextfacist dog whistle. And if then you replace "God Wills It" with something else, then the new phrase will become the dog whistle.

Yup. The two confirmed features removal (merchant republic and nomads) are features that frankly don't work well anyway. It makes complete sense to me they would want to completely overhaul it for the next game. And if they are completely overhauling, there is a lot more work to be done and little can be used from the previous game, and since these aren't that important to begin with, it make sense they would remove from the base game to be worked on at a latter date.

So far I am encouraged with their decision of what to include and remove from the base game. They are keeping all religions playable and we know they are improving Way of Life mechanics, which was a well received and mostly well done DLC. What they remove were, as mentioned, things that didn't work so well and that aren't that important. I hope I can continue to defend their decisions like that as more information surface.

Indeed. I have semi-firsthand experience (by which I mean I was doing ground-floor playtesting on Crisis of the Confederation) with the Republic mechanics. They're a mess of spaghetti hardcoding that even Paradox' current devs don't understand.

So now Paradox, making CK 3, can tear the whole mess down and rebuild from first principles, and maybe make interesting systems for both playable republics and theocracies.

The thing is, "deus vult" is already a fascist dogwhistle for reasons at most tangentially related to Crusader Kings II and there's basically no reason to keep using it.

Also, if anything, the weird reactionaries are more likely to defiantly stick to what they're already using to signal their "refusal to be censored" than they are to switch to the "overly PC" replacement.

Edited by Balmung on Oct 20th 2019 at 5:09:35 AM

CK 2's Steam page is kinda being bombed with bad reviews by people complaining about the Deus Vult thing. One guy even asked if "Allahu Ackbar" should also be considered a sensitive phrase just because terrorists use it, which made me laugh for a good five minutes before I noticed he was being serious.

Since this is a game specifically about the Crusades, which was all about religion-fueled racism, I don't think attracting the fascists and racists can be avoided short of stripping the crusade mechanics from the game entirely.

Optimism is a duty.

I wasn't saying not to change it, just that no change is safe. And I think the reactionaries would use both versions, given they literally mean the same thing. It's not PC to use the English version of a phrase that still means "Kill them all let God sort out the mess."

You;d think given paradox is also the publisher for Vampire 5th edition and added a whole fucking chapter about inclusiveness that even told neo nazis to go fuck off and go give themselves a long look in a mirror that they wouldnt be surprised paradox doesnt wanna be involved in racist memes

As posted last page it turns out that Paradox didn't actually ban it.

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn

... As far as I can remember, "Allahu Ackbar" (Allhu Akbar) isn't in the game at all.

Right. But thats never stopped a tempest in a teapot.

I had a guy asking whether "Workers Unite!" should be banned from HOI 4 because Communism killed people. These idiots really are serious.

Edited by GoldenKaos on Oct 20th 2019 at 9:42:05 AM

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."

Did Communism kill based on demographics or just one group's paranoia about specific people? I know there was the officer purge that did a lot of damage, and a loooot of other killings, but was it based on the same problems we're facing now?

Whether communism did or didn't kill people isn't the point. The point is that "Workers Unite!" is about unions, which are entirely different from communism.

Paradoxcon interview with some of the CK3 devs.

Highlights:

• The map is a bit bigger than in CK2, with Africa extending further south as well as including eastern Tibet.
• Dynamic religions: Each religion is made of several doctrines which can be manipulated by the player (for example, many religons have a doctrine saying that witchcraft is bad). The new heresy system is when characters go against the doctrines of their main religion.
• Few supernatural events on launch. Will probably be added later.
• It's been mentioned before, but Merchant Republics won't be playable and nomads won't have unique mechanics.
• No word on the possibility of Glitterhoof's return.

Edited by lrrose on Oct 20th 2019 at 5:39:46 AM

Interesting, so you can basically create your own brand of Christianity. I assume the game will start fairly early, then, since Catholicism was fairly unified by the high Middle Ages.

Optimism is a duty.

That's technically some prior DLC added to the main game, too, considering the reformation mechanic.

But oh boy, China's not gonna be happy about the Tibet thing.

Good, no reason to be historical inaccurate to please someone's ego.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.

No, we're only historically inaccurate to put the brutal beatdown on the bad guys who refer to historical accuracy to justify their foul thoughts and actions.

I think his point was more a Whataboutism, like "If we remove Deus Vult because people are offended, why don't we stop people from saying Allahu Ackbar as well?", missing the point that this is precisely a thing that's happened.