No 40K thread yet? I'm surprised. Nay, shocked, shocked I say to discover there's gambling going on in this establishment...
I'm eagerly anticipating the imminent 5th Edition release, personally, but I was interested to know if anyone here plays and has a differing opinion on it. There are certainly plenty of people out there who seem to think that 40K 4th edition "only just" came out and that a new edition isn't needed. Anyone?
Warhammer Fantasy (including Age of Sigmar and WFRP) has its own thread here
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Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 22nd 2024 at 5:37:34 PM
Official Tesladyne Employee TM
True, but there are going to be situations where that doesn't work, and in those, the Ultras should usually get their asses kicked by the specialists unless they can shift the battle dynamic to one where they have the advantage.
As an example, the remote Ultra-held starfort that Honsou goes after in one of the Iron Warriors short stories doesn't get to just make reinforcements out of thin air like it's Starcraft; it has to do its best with the forces it has, and while they put up a good fight they do indeed eventually get taken apart because they had no way of making the fight not a siege.
You are dazzled by my array of very legal documents.
And that's when you stop trying to fight on their terms and find a way to fight on yours.
John Parshall talked about the Battle of Midway in terms of a 'real life' version of this during WW 2 - it was the point where any Japanese advantage in maneuver, speed or striking power was moot. It had become purely a war of tonnage, supplies and logistics. Exactly the war the US is good at fighting.
If you're trying to beat your enemy at their own game, you lose.
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
Official Tesladyne Employee TM
Oh, I'm not saying that there aren't going to be situations where that's possible, and when it is, the Ultras are probably going to take it and do quite well because they're not stupid. It's just that sometimes there is no way to reframe an engagement into one where you hold the advantage, if the enemy is attacking that which you are obliged to rescue or defend, and those cases are not going to be fun for the Ultramarines.
You are dazzled by my array of very legal documents.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Absolutely. The most annoying thing about war is that the enemy gets a vote, and you can't always get the war you want.
This is happening in the Plague Wars at the moment according to the Ultramarine Supplement:
To the galactic north of Ultramar, the followers of the Chaos God Nurgle establish dominion in the Scourge Stars. From this hive of corruption, armies of Daemons pour forth, accompanied by the traitorous Death Guard Legion and renegades and cultists beyond count. Three loathsome spearheads push into Ultramar, attacking along a hundred fronts and bringing with them unnatural pestilence. The defenders of Ultramar fight bravely, but lose ground. Ultramarines from the Ultima Founding arraive to reinforce their brethren, but they can only slow the attackers.
Dorku: granted, thign are quite diferent now post heresy than during the heresy, the ultra pretty much kept atacking and atackin the world beares and world eaters, encircle them by the sheer power of logistic.
Well, is not surprising, this is the annoyihg part of fighting chaos: they can take terrain that is nearly impobile to take back also they have mortarion which move the fithting into bigger terms.
The Death Guard are basically using a superior attrition strategy.
Not only are their troops on average more resilient note than the Ultramarines note , but they've also got little concern about logistics - Daemons don't need to eat, sleep or go to the loo. The Death Guard don't either, they just need to maintain their armor.
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
Absolutely no relation to NLK
Nurgle Daemons don't need to go to the loo, they just choose to.
Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
But first! the prophecy continues…
◊
Ylocu Shaie must be fun at parties… In any case, it sounds like the Ynarri have been kicking up something of a storm in their attempts to free the Aeldari from eternal damnation at the hands of Slaanesh. Bringing a god into consciousness from sheer potentiality evidently comes at a cost!
The Ynnari could definitely use a hand from someone with the experience of ages to guide them through these turbulent times – but who could rise to such a challenge?
That’s right – Jain Zar is back and is more incredible than ever! As the Phoenix Lord of the Howling Banshees, Jain Zar is the spiritual mother to all who follow in her path by dedicating themselves to her Warrior Aspect.
Jain Zar’s exquisite new miniature
◊ embodies the lethal grace for which she has become renowned, and feared, across the galaxy. As well as sweeping her deadly glaive, the Blade of Destruction, in a decapitating strike, she is poised to whip her right arm around to hurl her legendary triskele, Silent Death. Her feet aren’t even touching the floor, as the miniature is held aloft by her flowing mane!
On the battlefield, Jain Zar fights even more aggressively than before (if such a thing is possible for Khaine’s most prolific blademaiden), swapping her old Disarming Strike ability for a more thoroughly slaughterous replacement, The Storm of Silence…
◊
With this ability at her disposal, simply hurl Jain Zar into the largest enemy units and watch gleefully as she blends her way through them like a bladed whirlwind!
New Jain is definitely an improvement on the old one but, while it could be the angle of the pic, I think the Blade of Destruction looks a little too long.
Edited by SebastianGray on Sep 23rd 2019 at 5:38:43 PM
Knowledge is Power, Guard it Well
That is not enterely true, chaos marines does have to worry about logistic as black legion make cristal clear, chaos rarely have suplies line so they fight what they got, and demons are not their friend not servants, being very unreliable by their own nature.
granted the plague war are diferent because mortarion is there, is kind of a game changer
Also, this means Roboute have already fight two demon primarch and 7 of them(Angron, Lorgar, Demon Fulgrin, "Alpharius", Konrad Curze, Demon magnus and demon mortarion) making him the loyalist with most engage with is chaos brothers.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Guilliman has fought 3 Daemon Primarchs.
Fulgrim at Thessala: Loss and millennia in stasis
Magnus on Luna: Win due to the help of the Sisters of Silence
Mortarion on Iax: Draw
Knowledge is Power, Guard it Well
Official Tesladyne Employee TM
Maxim 47: Don't expect the enemy to cooperate in the creation of your dream engagement.
You are dazzled by my array of very legal documents.
That said, what speaks the most to the current dire state of the Imperium?
There's a Daemon Primarch confirmed to be bumming around in realspace dunking on the Ultramarines, and yet the Plague War doesn't seem to have attracted a Grey Knights Brotherhood.
Which means they're busy somewhere else with something worse.
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
Captain of the Dead City
GW executing Fridge Brilliance foreshadowing or just forgetting shit, like they always do?
"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Dorku: except when you are tzeetch or cegorach, but again if you engaging is "being a dick just because" is pretty easy to win all the damn time.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
That all you got?
The Ultramarines are also holding the line. I doubt the situation is desperate enough yet to call in the Grey Knights.
That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
Is Mortarion who we are speaking, Angron was trouble enough to warren 100 Grey knight and only a docent of them got alive of that encounter, Morty is definily in the "OH SHIT!"
Captain of the Dead City
It's almost certainly the biggest demonic outbreak in the known galaxy at this point, where else are the Grey Knights gonna go?
My lord, there's a new rollercoaster at "Emperor Land".
That all you got?
Plus: Chaos Gods-blessed Primarch vs Emperor-blessed Primarch. Even match.
Edited by theLibrarian on Sep 23rd 2019 at 5:56:37 AM
That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
Oh, bother.
It's not an even match. One-on-one, it seems clear that a Daemon Primarch outclasses a Primarch. Similar to how in a straight up duel, a Chaos Astartes usually outclasses a regular Astartes.
Remember that the last time Roboute dueled a Daemon Primarch (Magnus the Red) he was on the losing end until the Sisters of Silence bailed him out.
The strength of the Loyalist Astartes lies in their teamwork and coordination — they fight better as a group than the Chaos Astartes.
Edited by M84 on Sep 23rd 2019 at 10:03:04 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
Absolutely no relation to NLK
In fairness, Guilliman was never an exceptional duelist for Primarch standards. And there's always Warp bullshit. I wager Russ or the Lion might have a better shot at Mortarion or Magnus. Plus, Russ has precedent.
Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Oh, bother.
Russ is probably the only Primarch who would be able to reliably take on Daemon Primarchs and win. His whole shtick is that he was the Emperor's designated Primarch killer and he apparently has strong innate resistance to Warp power.
Still, becoming a Daemon Primarch does seem to come with a significant power boost for the Primarch.
OTOH, Corvus Corax did beat the shit out of Daemon Lorgar and made him flee for his life.
Also, the canon has it that when Roboute and Mortarion finally dueled each other, it was a stalemate. Though it's worth noting that the fight only ended because Mortarion was summoned back to the Scourge Stars which had come under threat from the War in the Rift.
Edited by M84 on Sep 23rd 2019 at 10:21:51 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
Except he is not a primarch killer, he took that role by itself(which it kinda said something about him), also Magnus did punch the motherfucker out quite a bit, including piercing one of is hearts.
And even then, he is scared shitlest of Apolloin spear(aka Gram from the wolf novels).
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Granted, that's where the "master of logistics" thing comes in: being able to bring in bullshit resources and numbers.
Disgusted, but not surprised