I heard good things about Skalds, but they come from books I don't posses, I'm afraid. Ah, well. Cunning bard is also pretty fun. I get to move around monsters more often than the DM.
I tend to prefer to avoid things like Cunning Bard-anything that happens when someone ELSE acts slows down gameplay and adds friction.
Itis rather annoying that everyone needs to remember giving me a poke whenever an enemy misses a melee attack, though. But besides that, it's been most advantageous.
Yeah, it's particularly effective for enemies that roll multiple attacks as part of a single action. If you slide an ally away, BAM, those other attacks automiss.
I let a somewhat similar phenomenon happen last night, despite that-technically-the three attack rolls were all part of the same attack, so there wasn't any actual miss.
Speaking of, WTF: the boss had a 27.1% crit chance, and yet somehow managed to crit like, 3 or 4 times.
Actually, come to think of it, the boss made somewhere around 8 attacks, so I guess that while that's unusual, it's not TOTALLY uncalled for.
Lesbarian
Bards: Awesome.
Heavy Metal Bards: Awesome to the eleventh power.
Lazy Leader Syndrome: Not awesome.
Kitsune
I'll take a guess, and then tell me what I missed if I'm wrong.
A shifter, with some sort of magic. . . Wizard, maybe, though Warlock isn't out of the question.
Mura: -flips the bird to veterinary science with one hand and Euclidean geometry with the other-
Wrong on every single account.
She is a Hengeyokai Desert Wind Monk.
And yeah, Altusholt mostly uses melee basic attack and Vicious Mockery. His second unique character boon gives him a third at-will power-OH SHIT THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A SECRET-
edited 16th May '12 4:30:18 PM by TheyCallMeTomu
Lesbarian
What is this bullshit.
Mura: -flips the bird to veterinary science with one hand and Euclidean geometry with the other-
The Golden Dragon, obviously.
Lesbarian
No, the Hengeyokai thing. Has 4E gone to hell since I stopped buying the books, or are you just doing houseruled weaboo stuff?
edited 16th May '12 4:31:37 PM by Exelixi
Mura: -flips the bird to veterinary science with one hand and Euclidean geometry with the other-
Oh for fucks sake dude, Dungeons and Dragons has always had non-core asian source material, ever since the original Oriental Adventures source book.
Not to mention that the monk class was there as far back as first edition-though, never having played 1E, I can't comment as to whether it was a martial arts ultimate monk sort.
Back in October, Wot C released some Oriental Adventuresy materials. They introduced the Ninja build for the Executioner, they introduced Hengeyokai as a new race (with complete lack of feat support so it's essentially 100% inferior to Drow), and they introduced a couple of new themes-the Samurai and the Sohei.
edited 16th May '12 4:37:40 PM by TheyCallMeTomu
Street Writing Man
@Exe: Wizards has always been about making the biggest pile of bucks. I've noticed a definite creep of Asian-themed material into Dungeons & Dragons over the past 15 years...which dovetails perfectly with anime's rise in popularity among their audience.
If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
Bull shiiiiit. Kara-tur was basically abandoned entirely ever since Wot C took over. Wot C has given the occasional nod to asian fantasy roleplaying through Oriental Adventures, but that is one sourcebook that wasn't even ever updated to 3.5 (Note, in terms of actual 3.5 resources, there is the Shugenja from Complete Divine, and the Samurai from Complete Warrior-a class that is absolutely unplayably bad, taking all of the worst elements of the fighter and amplifying them). As I alluded to earlier, the asian influences in Dungeons and Dragons date all the way back to TSR involvement, and have little to do with the rise of anime.
Step off the faux indignation-I know it's fun to hate on weeaboos because so many of us are just infuriating, but if you can't find real issues to harp on, you just end up looking like fools :P
edited 17th May '12 12:48:55 AM by TheyCallMeTomu
Street Writing Man
For one, I didn't say it was a bad thing, just a thing. For another, I've been watching it happen. Catering to the changing market is how a business stays in business. For the people that don't like "that weeaboo shit", they can simply disallow it in the chronicles they run.
If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
Can you site real examples, please?
If Wot C is really changing the product to meet the changing markets, then that should suggest there is more asian related shenanigans than before, not less. And I'm pretty sure that the Complete Ninja's Handbook predates Wot C's involvement in Dungeons and Dragons, so I'm thinking there's a wealth of asian related game materials pre-Wot C, and a moderately sparse amount post, which would undermine the point you're making.
My apologies for misreading your personal stance on things, but from where I'm standing, it's factually wrong.
Oh wait-I forgot, they DID update the Wu Jen in Complete Arcane, so there is that.
edited 17th May '12 12:55:06 AM by TheyCallMeTomu
...back to funny moments? Anyone?
The Protomen enhanced my life.
No! This is not OTC, I demand to be vindicated! ROAR!
Alright alright, I've made my case ;P
But I won't have any more funny moments until Tuesday, mah next campaign.
Street Writing Man
Either it was Wizards or pre-buyout TSR, I'm honestly not sure who was calling the shots when the decisions were made and that really isn't relevant anyway. I do remember when I was in high school and the amount of Asian/Anime-themed material in D&D was limited and pretty factually off (people used to bitch about how samurai armor was statted, for example...and oh, did they bitch). I do recall looking at an early D&D manual, and katanas were counted as an ordinary longsword. Stuff like that. A lot of this is likely before your time (I forget how old you are but I'm guessing you're younger than 30) so I don't blame you for not knowing about it.
The fact remains that anime-themed material has become more popular in the western world since the 1990s, and that is simply a response to changing tastes among certain market demographics. I'm not a fan of the genre but I'm certainly not going to attack companies for basically trying to make a buck.
And as it applies to roleplaying games...if I don't like something, I won't allow it in a chronicle I'm running. Which makes it pretty easy to avoid, really.
If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
Looking back, the Complete Ninja handbook is from 1995-which is a lot later than I thought. It was still TSR at the time-or at least it's the TSR logo on the book.
At the very least, the asian elements didn't start with third edition.
The original Oriental Adventures was released in 1985, apparently. Gygax himself wrote it.
edited 17th May '12 1:09:22 AM by TheyCallMeTomu
Street Writing Man
Touche, but I was speaking more of anime-themed material (I'm pretty sure that's what Exe was bitching about) rather than straight samurai/ninja stuff. Sorry, probably should have specified. But you make a good point.
If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
OH! Well, Tome of Battle is definitely it, and indeed the entire powers system in 4E has certain anime influences. But honestly, I can see Beowulf and other classical "men beyond men" type characters using those techniques. Just a generic Sword and Board character making basic attacks is boring and, in my opinion, shouldn't be on the same tier play wise as an epic level spellcaster. If the mage can throw blasts of flames that liquidate castles, you better be able to do something more than just swing a sword.
Fun fact: Using the Combat and Tactics sourcebook, it was possible for a Grand Master in the usage of the No`Dachi to deal d20 damage dice. Or was it d100? Maybe it was d30. The point was, the mastery would increase your weapon die, and a No`Dachi already did like, 1d20 damage against large creatures so the obvious question is, well, what's the next highest die category?
<Sephiroth deals 300 damage over four attacks, instagibbing Demogorgon. Stupid anime!>
edited 17th May '12 1:15:32 AM by TheyCallMeTomu
Street Writing Man
I guess it's a question of influence. People see D&D as classic fantasy; tossing anime at it is jarring to some. You make a good point in that epic is epic and it really is all over the place, but many people (myself included) see a difference between classic mythology and what my good friend termed "weeaboo fightin' magic".
Like I said, I don't much care for the genre but I'm not about to attack various gaming companies for trying to profit off those who do.
If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
Well, let's look at 4E. Bitches fucking HATED the Knight and the Slayer for being "dumbed down" but fundamentally, those are the "classic" fantasy classes. In my mind, those classes are the best reflection of martial characters at heroic tier. But once you're in Paragon tier, you're beyond "realistic" martial talents and into "Legendary" crap. You need to be able to fire thirteen arrows with a single pull of your bow and crap like that, because hey, you're not just fighting zombies and orcs,you're fighting mother fucking Fire Titans that are 20 feet tall! You think wacking it with your metal sharpened two-by-four is all it takes to bring it down? I think not!
Low fantasy fantasy and high fantasy really are two different cups of tea-but before 4E (well, before Tome of Battle), Fighters really didn't have much place in the latter despite that, well, Dn D was actually written with a fair amount of the rules geared towards it (to be fair, this was all well out of the "sweet spot" of play, so a lot of people never got there, no matter how many Tarrasques andd Frost Giant Jarls the monster manuals had). And don't get me wrong, To B wasn't the first sourcebook to introduce fairly extraordinary martial exploits. Whirlwind Attack predates 3E-it first showed up (to the best of my knowledge) in the DM's Option: High Level Campaigns sourcebook, as bonus high level features for high level characters. You can see this show up in Baldur's Gate 2.
But yes-"More than just a blow" as the default attack mechanism really didn't evolve until sometime in the past five years or so.
I should add that, a large part of that wasn't to appeal to the anime crowd specifically, but rather because fighters were seen as:
A.) Boring to play and
B.) Inferior to spellcasters.
Having ALL classes have various options as part of their play experrience was a design concept of 4E from the start, and had more to do with class balance than trying to appeal to some weeaboo demographic.
edited 17th May '12 1:27:44 AM by TheyCallMeTomu
Going back to funny stuff done by bards.
The party tried to get trough some catacombs unseen, while members of a zealously religious order were trying to track us down. The paladin's player was unavailable that day, so the DM just had him be silent and whenever there was fighting, he'd be fighting two goons a little further down the hall.
Soon enough, we were cornered. We hit a dead end, and heard a patrol approaching. It was then that I remembered that the paladin recently 'acquired' an armour belonging to a highranking member of the cult. So the DM and I had the following exchange:
- Me: I grab the paladin.
- DM: You what?
- Me: I grab the paladin, tell him to shut up and play along.
- DM: Euh, sure, roll for diplomacy.
- Me: (makes check) I go stand behind the Paladin, roll for stealth and walk him towards the patrol. (makes check)
- DM: Okay, you successfully hide behind the paladin. The patrol still sees him, though.
- Me: I puppeteer the paladin into making some aggressive gestures, and bark some orders towards the patrol about the intruders being somewhere else.
So yeah, one incredible bluff check later, the bard performed a Bavarian Firedrill using the paladin as a ventriloquist puppet.
Another incident from the same session had the party run into a few more guards. We attempt the same trick, but this time they didn't believe us. So then I blurted out "Congratulations, you passed the surprise inspection!"
I made the bluff check, but the DM didn't want me to sneak past all of his carefully planned encountered with all kinds of home-brewed opponents, so all he gave us for that was a +2 to initiative.
edited 17th May '12 1:48:21 AM by Kayeka
Today, my Shifter Gunslinger (who was without any of her equipment, because she had been captured at a fancy party) killed a ninja with a humanbane LETTER OPENER.
I'm pretty fond the the Skald-aka Kyle's class. Allies being able to heal themselves using your heals/encounter uses on their turns can be really helpful, especially in more dangerous encounters where allies drop to 0 HP and you want someone to move before them so they're back on their feet that turn.