The Order of the Stick

^^^^ She'll get all those dishonored dead if the world ends. Which it won't. Because come on. Otherwise, she's at least getting an unbalanced diet. She sure doesn't look too healthy, though I admit that was probably always the case.

^^^ Thor claimed that worship and dedication are necessary, not just souls. But she's not getting any worship and I'm not sure she's getting dedication either since she has no followers.

But yes, whether this could potentially kill her is up to Burlew, but either way it's sure not going to be fun.

As you and ^ mentioned, though, renegotiating is really only fair.

Edited by Arha on Oct 18th 2018 at 4:41:03 AM

Thor said she's getting Dedication from the Dwarves that go to her- although it's probably not the most 'nutritious' Dedication around. It's just the Worship she's missing- which probably winds up meaning something comparable to a calcium deficiency, to over-extend the metaphor.

Hel should be getting Belief, Dedication, and Souls, it's just that she doesn't get a lot of the latter two, and doesn't get any worship at all, which is messing her up.

I would have said she's getting "Belief" and "Souls", but no dedication.

Hel only gets tons of Dedication and Souls if the gods nuke the planet.

If this whole thing goes sideways and the Snarl devours all of those juicy living souls, Hel doesn't get shit.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 18th 2018 at 4:08:21 AM

She is getting Dedication though: that's the burst of energy they get when a soul goes to its "rightful" domain. Though since Thor (and others?) can fight her on getting souls, there might be an extra element to it for Hel.

This strip really puts into perspective some of Hel's complaining. Before when she was complaining to Thyrm about how she was wasting away without worship it seemed like she was just being melodramatic, but now we know she meant that literally.

She'd be free of her shit deal from the current setup.

Speaking of which, I hope we get an actual explanation for why they don't just call of the bet. Hel isn't happy with it, and I'm sure Thor isn't either, so why is this still going on?

They never break agreements. If a mortal spellcaster says "Control Weather", then Thor, God of Storms, has to back down. Thor was drunk, but he's not one to back down on his work. Hel technically did enter the agreement of her own free will and under no intoxication.

Edited by blkwhtrbbt on Oct 18th 2018 at 5:16:01 AM

Arha's point is bugging me.

They've disassembled this world millions of times. Hel seems fairly convinced she's going to get all the dishonoured dead resulting from that. So — assuming she's right — why did nobody see that coming? It's possible that they just didn't consider that such a death wouldn't count as honourable, but it seems a bit weak. No, Loki must have known that would be the case when he made it. (Thor too, but maybe he was just drunk.) But if it was just a case of Loki banking on Hel winning for some reason, why is he now against the gods destroying the world and ensuring that happens? Did the appearance of the Dark One change his mind?

Another thing I'm wondering: did he come up with some scheme with Tiamat and Rat where they all conned their gods of death out of making living clerics? Only cleric of Nergal we've seen was a vampire...

Because if the Snarl obliterates the world and devours all the souls, Hel doesn't get shit. And then that means Loki was right.

It wouldn't be gambling if there wasn't some risk involved. Hel isn't, like, some master planner sitting on the verge of getting everything her dark heart desires. She's been sitting at the table all day watching her chips slipping away pile after pile, and now she's taking what she has left and going All In on one last desperate bid to come out on top.

Blowing up the world before the Snarl does is her only hope of walking away with a win here. Any scenario that does not result in a controlled demolition of the planet means she loses.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 18th 2018 at 4:29:00 AM

It's quite fitting that gods, even the evil and chaotic ones, are big on I Gave My Word and Exact Words, given that they're ideas personified. They're made of semantics.

We don't know when this bet actually was. Given that it must have been as the current world was being built (or near enough), nobody would be able to see the Dark One coming (well, maybe Odin could).

But, Loki certainly wouldn't have seen any purple quiddity coming from that tight, hedge-disguised bend ahead.

So, when he made the bet, the only thing really on the table was Hel learning a lesson about being a bit more careful with bets. Sure, she's spend this world stewing about how she got screwed over; but, when everything started to fall apart and the world needed zapping, boom — influx of souls: all good.

And, he'd still win, because, in aggregate, she did get screwed over — just, not enough to end her (probably).

But............ purple dude happened. So, now he's stuck between "win the bet" and "actually having a chance to deal with that Gods-destroying menace for good, but only if purple dude is on board and/or gets strong enough".

In short: Loki got burned by his own too-cleverness. Again.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Oct 18th 2018 at 11:38:48 AM

But even in the absence of the Dark One, she wouldn't have been screwed over by the bet as we currently understand it. She'd have been scraping by in misery for the duration of that world, but then she'd be undisputed Queen of the next one. (Unless she died before it was created because the influx of souls wasn't enough to make up for a centuries-long lack of worship but that's a pretty dark end goal for Loki to be shooting for).

@Tobias That makes some sense. So is it your belief that Loki is gambling on the obliteration of the world merely on the basis of wanting to win his bet?

Edited by johnnye on Oct 18th 2018 at 12:18:51 PM

It's my belief that Loki originally arranged the bet expecting there was at least even, possibly better odds that the Snarl would wipe out this world before they got around to nuking it. Then Hel would be like, "Okay, you win, I acknowledge that Worship is actually really important."

The way Thor says that "some" worlds were successfully cashed out makes it sound like the Snarl getting to the mortals first is the typical occurrence.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 18th 2018 at 6:02:24 AM

Not to mention, the number of the dead should me much greater than those currently living. What's a few million living souls to the countless billions of the long dead?

That's why Dedication is included in the list of god-food. People on the GITP forums were saying exactly that, that sending all of the living dwarves to Hel shouldn't make much of a difference when all of the already-dead souls are powering the gods as-is, so Rich said, hey, figure she gets a boost of power from getting them all at once, over and above the actual number of them. Looks like Dedication is his way of canonizing that comment and adding more detail to it—she's been getting Dedication from every dishonorable death, but without the Worship because every soul she gets actually Worships someone else. I just spent about half an hour perusing the Index of the Giant's Comments and I can't find the quote, though.

Edit: Aha, here it is.

Edited by HeraldAlberich on Oct 18th 2018 at 12:03:27 PM

Oh I see. She plans to win the next Olympics by having a colossal sugar rush.

Thats how I would do it... were I ever in the Olympics.

So, which member of the Orders character arc have you found most engaging?

For me, it's probably a tie between Vaarsuvius and Elan.

Don't think Roy has really had a character arc at all, has he? And Durkon hasn't really changed either. I guess I'll go with Elan and Belkar.

Roy is interesting without really needing to change though. Some characters are so integral to the setting that changing them might harm the story.

I'd say that Roy has changed from the beginning, at least as much as he's no longer preoccupied with spiting his father and better understanding of what being lawful and/or good means for him, personally.

Edited by LSBK on Oct 22nd 2018 at 5:14:41 AM

Roy's story hits pretty close to home, and no, it's not just cuz hes the Black guy- Eugene is very much like my own father taken up a few orders of magnitude in dickishness, complete with the whole "not living up to expectations set by him" with a lot less "throwing harsh insults at each other." Mostly because I am psychologically unable to be snarky towards anyone I consider an authority figure.

I don't consider going from 'screw you dad' to 'screw you dad, no really' to be much of an arc. It's relatable for some, but doesn't involve significant change.

I guess he does have his head less up his ass than he did before. I dunno, it all just seems really low key at best.

Edited by Arha on Oct 22nd 2018 at 5:46:20 AM