Girl Genius

Probably.

That assumes she doesn't mean "excluding me".

Quick Point in Passing Before Returning to Homework:

Greybeard, the original, pre-Empire version of the Storm King Plot would, in many ways, not have been "against" the Heterodyne Brothers. There's NO indication the HBs were attempting to consolidate rule in their own name, only eradicate the 200 year internecine warfare of the Spark classes and the Aristos, to the extent they differed at all. But no indication they wanted the role Klaus ultimately took. Uniting Europa under a legitimate, Spark created and approved inarguable heir of the last truly legitimate continental ruler, and allying her with a Heterodyne Daughter raised (in their thinking) to be a Good Heterodyne...

I can see that being a perfect, pure cross between Kingmaking and Peacekeeping that would appeal to the two. Even Lu's affiliations with Sturmhalten and her taking control of the Knights Jovian and Smokey would be approved of by them. I mean, just going on the comment about the Prince of Sturmhalten in Maxim's Hat episode leaves the impression that whatever Klaus thought of the Sturmvoraus, the Heterodynes seem to have regarded them as more or less friendly if competitive neighbors: the kind of people you cheerfully gamble with.

So from their POV the entire plot may have had their full endorsement, with, one hopes, a few concerns about the whole "mind control" thing. But maybe not even that if Lu was using her "mind control" thing on her friends and allies. (grim frown)

I keep thinking of Barry's reaction to Agatha's heterodyning: he was fully expecting it, but it was too early. Now, yes, she is developing young, and he may have just been trying to delay her breakthrough. But I have been suspicious for some time that Agatha was actually planned out in advance, rather like Zola implies about Tarvek, and the Boys knew it, and her function depended on her Heterodyning...and she was developing too quickly for whatever plan had been in play...or too quickly for Barry's convenience, anyway.

edited 10th Oct '10 9:09:56 PM by Hippogrif

If Bill and Barry really were good guys, I don't think they'd go along with the Mind Control unless the situation were already desperate, and it doesn't seem to have been. Creating Agatha as the Heterodyne Heir to wed the Storm King, yes, especially if they didn't know what Lucrezia had in mind for her.

Although Zola is not a Spark, she has access to Lu'Other's memories. Now, it may be that the skill to use is not the same as the knowledge of, especially if the Lu within is uncooperative. But the Lu within will probably prefer to go on living, so if it comes to instructions on how to escape from death, Inner Lu will probably be very cooperative.

I agree that the Lu within could change the situation in terms of Zola's sparkiness. I am really CURIOUS about that.

I tend to agree on the Mind Control thing, though without the entire original information it's hard to know what they may have thought it was for. But Lu could have hidden that part, or she could have developed it into the atrocity we see at a later point, after the Otherizing events began. The rest, though, I still tend to think the HBs knew about and supported, thus making it easier for Barry to think of Klaus as coming in and taking advantage of chaos and thus derailing a Vital Peacekeeping Plan...and possibly even being The Other himself.

And I find, oddly, that the second-to-last frame does more to make me actually like Zola than anything previous: that "Oh, S**t" face is human and vulnerable. That and the fact that she and Agatha are fighting as peers, somehow makes her less unendurable.

edited 10th Oct '10 7:39:30 PM by Hippogrif

A Point, Greybeard, Klaus did not expect Europa to be in such bad shape when he came back. Only after he came back, found the Bill and Barry missing, and Europa back in the Long War, did Klaus establish the Empire.

You have a noble soul, Hippogrif, but that same expression gives me great satisfaction. I do hope Zola's hanging over either the Napenthis dulci's waiting mouth or a really deep, deep hole.

edited 10th Oct '10 7:48:37 PM by OlBear

Just remember, Zola is said to be good at improvising.

I too find satisfaction in seeing her dismayed. I don't think her thread will end here, but I do fear what may result.

Let's not forget the scene from The Heterodyne Boys and the Cast-Iron Glacier The Heterodyne Boys and the Race to the West Pole. It would be just like Phil and Kaja to give us a diadem and pawn it off as paste. Don't tell me you fear the experiment?!/I fear the result—but the experiment itself— —why that is science!

Notice that in this scene it's Bill who is pushing the envelope and Lucrezia who is resisting. Accurate? Who knows?

Larry D, very much my point. If Klaus had plans to get Gil educated, set him up with a regent for a few years (Barry, maybe?) and toddle on home to his wife, they all went out the airship window.

edited 12th Oct '10 11:07:46 PM by GreybeardFan

I realize the comic hasn't actually touched on the old true love chestnut as yet, but the Heterodyne Boys don't seem like the type to purposely force children into arranged marriages.

Klaus doesn't mind, and it seems like the various other Noble Houses don't either. Klaus even arranged a marriage for Sleipnir.

There are different degrees of arrangement, from introduction to compulsion. Gil wasn't too keen on the idea, though he specifically desired a Sparky woman. A very Sparky woman.

Given the era of the H Bs is roughly early 1800s and the fate of the continent is at stake I can see them backing an arranged political marriage. It would be the social norm at the time AND the sort of responsible behavior towards the good of the whole the H Bs would admire...even if they themselves preferred otherwise.

People are surprisingly good at making plans for their offspring they never would and never could fulfill themselves.

RE: Zola and sympathy. I tend to read Phil's and Cheyenne's work as commentary on the actual events and words. Which leaves me unsure about Zola sometimes. Lu is simply wicked nasty. Zola is ALMOST simply wicked nasty.

But at present I really don't like her as a person, though she is a superb villainess. I don't believe for a minute we have seen the last of her, even if she's falling down a pit as deep as Von Pinn's.

A clank with a chainsaw arm! I can die a happy man now.

Hippogrif, in what way is Zola ALMOST (but not) simply wicked nasty? I just don't see it. From her treatment of The Black Squad (where did they go?) to her treatment of her own mooks (brought in to die for her) she has shown not a single impulse that we can count to her credit.

Also, we have some reason to doubt that Lu is the "consummate actress" that Klaus thinks she is. Zola is even better than Klaus thinks Lu is. She is, pardon the phrase, WICKED good.

I think the difference between Zola and The Other is that the former may simply be a typical villain carrying out historically mundane (and possibly even somewhat well intentioned) empire-building, while the latter (if Othar's Twitter can be believed) is an Omnicidal Maniac.

In terms of how Phil and Cheyenne draw her, Greybeard. One of the things I have come to admire is that Phil goes beyond straight narration with his drawings, and manages to jump to a level where there's complex commentary going on.

One of the big give-aways on Tarvek was that he was always drawn by Phil as a good guy, even when he was apparently misbehaving. The only sequences in Sturmhalten that' don't show him positively are the ones where he's a bit madboy learning Spark-stuff from Lucretia. When he turns off Agatha's 'bots he's drawn clearly upset and remorseful and torn by the action. When he turns off Anevka he's shattered.

Zola isn't drawn as an utter villainess to the degree Lu is. Now, some of that is that we seldom see Lu except when she's occupying Agatha, and providing visual cues to the readers is vital...like Lu usually functioning without Agatha's glasses when she's Lu (and how she does so well I will never know...). But while Pinky can and often is drawn downright toxic, she's also occasionally drawn with real affection and sympathy...as in that second-to-last frame today.

We haven't yet gotten to as complex a counterpoint sequence as the drawings of Tarvek's flashback as major commentary on Tarvek's verbal descriptions: that one is verbally pure Sturmvorese, with everything couched in the most dehumanizing or alienating of terms, while the drawings show a completely different reality: a mild, gentle and passionately loyal little boy staggering around in a world too big for him, trying to do the right thing by a friend. A complete second narrative to provide extensive annotation to Tarvek's own spoken (and defensively reserved) account.

We're not at a point where we can quite do that with Zola, especially as her main flashback so far is through Gil's biased eyes: HE saw her as innocent and hapless and clueless to the max, but we know now he wasn't entirely correct.

What we don't know is if he was in any degree correct, and exactly how.

Agatha trusts Tarvek in some odd way, even when we don't entirely know why. But at rock bottom we trust her judgment. The question I have regarding Zola is that Gil did trust her...and she does seem to have honestly had, and still have, a true affection for Gil. So...do we trust Gil's previous assessment to any degree at all, given he's a sound and sensible fellow with far more extensive experience of her than we have?

edited 11th Oct '10 12:36:03 AM by Hippogrif

^ It took me a moment to realize that you meant the Boy Detective flashback, not the Creation of Clankevka flashback. What you say about words versus memories is true. It's strong, though you have to be alert to realize that it's written and drawn that way.

I don't see the same things in Zola. Yes, she can show fear. She lacks a Spark's (dis)ability that pushes fear completely aside. But Tarvek never gloated the way she does. And I don't even know if Lu'Agatha gloated that way when she wasped Klaus.

Either something happened to Zola between the time she disappeared from Paris and the time that she appeared in Mechanicsburg or she really is the monster she seems to be. I know that von Pinn was redeemed, and more than redeemed. But Zola ...

I'm looking at the Lu/Zola sequence after Lu'Agatha has brained Zola and strapped her down. Lu is doing much what Klaus did with Othar, saying things that shouldn't be said to a subject whose mind Lu is about to demolish. Then Zola asserts mental control over Zo'Lu, and starts to talk the same way to Lu'Agatha.

Lady Lu has the excuse of being a Spark, of being Mad and Bad. Zola has been turned into such a monster, or been turned into it. The callousness with which she let her mooks die and threatened Cucaracha just about matches the way that Lu'Agatha killed Vrin. I just can't see it.

Meanwhile, I'm looking at the page where Lu'Agatha brains Zola and Zola wakes up in Lu's Re-Minding chair. Last panel, middle row: The similarity in shape between the Heterodyne hair sigils and the Re-Minding chair's side pieces keeps me thinking that those hair decorations are part of Zola's Lu management apparatus.

^^^ On the whole I tend to agree with you. It's just...it's the FOGLIOS! I tend to leave a huge question mark after conclusions because they can turn in a second if there's any wriggle room left.

With Zola? Neh, she IS a non-Spark going in to do a job that could and has terrified even Sparks. She's there, in Castle Heterodyne, attempting to coopt Der Kestle and win a province and eventually an Empire. Without Spark, and with impressively little really trustworthy help. I can (just) believe her argument to Gil that it's her or them, and she needs to impress them with her lethal, ruthless will to conquer.

On top of that — I don't LIKE her. I will confess I liked her even less when she was being helpless: you'll recall even then I thought she was almost certainly brilliant and devious, not wee and twee and helpless, but that whole routine gagged me badly, the worse because Gil fell for it so utterly. But while I can sort of admire her tough brilliance now she's out of fluffy mode, I agree with you: she's a holy terror and appears to be every single thing anyone EVER posted against Tarvek: greedy, ambitious, ruthless, manipulative, two-faced,vain, you name it our Zola's got it.

But...that is part of my personal glitch. I found it really frustrating that people simply ruled out the loopholes still present in the theories about Tarvek, and took it as an absolute proven thing that he was every repulsive thing they could think about him. It offended me on purely logical levels AND it hit my "Kangaroo court" buttons.

I am double-Dutch-damned if I will do the same to Zola. Not until she has been proven loophole free and awful to the oozing core. Until that time I will reserve a tiny spot for the occasional flashes of likable humanity Phil draws for her, and for Gil's conviction that she had no malice in her.

I doubt it very deeply. But...I will hold that question mark.

(But I still think she's the Pink Peril and repulsive, and I am delighted Agatha and her cute crab clank showed her what-for!)

As for the hair pieces? I basically have no idea in the world. None. You could be right, or wrong, and I would have no opinion to match against yours either way.

Oh, and the Creation of Clankeva flashbacks (one early, immediately after Tarvek and Agatha meet, and one during his explanation to Clankeva about why he's turning her off)....

Neither are as powerfully in conflict with his spoken words. In the Boy Detective he's just realized that he's been duped AND that he's in debt to Gil...and he's trying to explain why that upsets him to Violetta, who at least verbally pretends to despise him and who hits him in the head, and Moloch, who's not very impressed with anyone Sparky most of the time, but who at least seems to LIKE Gil. Into the bargain it's a recap of something like 12 years of material that has been galling him in too many ways to describe.

He's stuck trying to cope with being the sucker, and yet he's a Sturmvoraus, from a family where you never, never show your weakness or vulnerability. So his spoken version is all hedgehog spines and defense mechanisms and Sturmvoraus-style user-used evaluations. The only way we would ever know there was a conflict there is through Phil's drawings.

The stuff regarding Clankevka conflicts him far less badly. He was a Sturmvoraus doing what he was supposed to do, serving as loyal son and brother, and serving as Spark. Even then the Sturmvorese cuts in, but it's not as sharply in contrast with the drawings: he'll summarize Anevka's illness, or his father's madness, or his own slowly failing struggle to save his sister, and the drawings show his feelings far more completely and passionately than his words, but they're still telling pretty much the same story.

Still, even the Anevka flashbacks have Phil providing a sort of constant commentary...as do his drawings of events as they happen, when he makes sure we see the good in Tarvek even when events suggest he may be bad, bad, bad. I can't think of anyone, including Klaus, who Phil has drawn such a complete counter-narrative for. He's Phil, and I always look to see what he's telling me that the words and even the overt actions don't clearly indicate. But Klaus, Zeetha, the circus people, Gil...none of them demand such intense counterpoint illustration as Tarvek has demanded from Phil.

I know I am biased, but I honestly suspect Tarvek is the character who non-obviously holds the narrative together for the authors. Agatha and Gil are the obvious heroes: Tarvek is on the one hand their non-obvious hero, and on the other his very ambiguity allows them to use him as the veil over huge amounts of material they're saving for future reveals. He's both a hero AND a brilliant narrative tool allowing them room for tons of sleight of hand. Like Othar's madness he can draw the eye in the wrong direction, or force a move without the readers catching on.

And I wish I could play the sleight of hand so well in my own writing. Oh, do I wish!

edited 11th Oct '10 3:27:11 AM by Hippogrif

Graybeard, make Gil regent of what. Klaus did not create the Wolfenbach empire until after he came back. And he didn't come back with the intention of creating it, the empire was his response to finding the Heterodyne Boys gone and Europa in shambles.

^ Larry D., Klaus didn't create the Empire until he got back, but there was a family Castle and it was a Minor House, and that meant that there was a Head of the House who would have been styled Baron (probably) just as Klaus is. I'm presuming that Klaus was the Head of House, the Baron, at that time. You're right in that the guardian of a minor to the Barony wouldn't have been a Regent (technically) but there would have been such a person had Klaus left Gil there.

My guess is that Klaus was expected to take a year or so for the round trip and a span of years to see Gil to the edge of adolescence, perhaps to twelve or thirteen. Where you don't have enough leisure in society to allow adolescence, that's the edge of adulthood.

edited 11th Oct '10 8:26:35 AM by GreybeardFan

^^Actually, I have always wondered if Klaus' parents were killed in the raid on the original Barony. If he'd been Baron I would have expected him to try to return even sooner than he did: obligations. If he thought his father was still holding, though, he may have continued to feel free to dawdle.

I have no idea of the answer. Just wonder on occasion.

Good point, and my lapse. Yes, if Klaus was the heir apparent/presumptive (what's the difference?) rather than the Baron, he might not have taken Gil back as an infant unless it was necessary to do so. And then he might have, just so that Gil would consider House Wolfenbach to be his home.

Of course, if Klaus were the heir at the time, his father might not be pleased to hear that Klaus had married, and done so not to the advantage of the House. But having a grandson might make up for it, though not for having Klaus run back to his wife and (essentially) abdicate the Barony.

And if that's what Klaus planned on doing, then his determination might be fueled by guilt at planning to leave AND by a desire to leave. Make sure, make Abso-Sparking-Lutely sure that this Empire will run itself, and then get back to his own life. And to learn that it's Lucrezia who's keeping him here ... well you saw with Dr. Merlot how Klaus reacts to people who add difficulty to existing difficulty.

It fits nicely. That doesn't mean it's right. But the more we look, the better it seems to fit.

edit: And we may contrast Klaus's experience of youth with what he believes Gil's youth to have been. Was Lucrezia his first and only lover? Well, maybe, but it doesn't seem likely. If this hyper-responsible Klaus had been wild in his youth, as the unreliable-narrator-Jaeger said, he was probably as wild as he is responsible today. Was it double-fatherhood that changed him or the discovery that the world had gone to hell in his absence?

How much does Gil know of his parentage? Precious little, I'm sure. Klaus really did hide his son amongt the "servants"'s children. And if Gil knew anything about Skifander, he would have immediately understood about the green hair. Or maybe he did; look at his square speech bubble in panel 2. But Klaus's promise to explain everything must have promised the answers to the questions of Gil's own existance.

And so Gil must have realized that Zeetha had something to do with the world of his birth and his mother. And when he asked So who taught--, he must have had that question in mind. Zeetha's smile suggests that she knows ... but Gil's expression? He doesn't look like someone hoping for great news. What sort of secrets does he expect, after stories about the sausage meat clank?

And just as we are speculating on this and the word is leaking out, we get Old Man Death, who was "ravished by a wild princess." I'm sure Gil's mother is a most remarkable woman.

The Foglios recycle.

On a purely technical note: compare the colored and uncolored versions of this page. The uncolored version is amazingly complete. Phil captures facial expressions and anatomy with a wonderful economy, even has he is extravegant with the machinery and some of the clothing. But even the extravegance is tempered by economy. Look at the scrollwork in Lu'Agatha's headpiece.

Then compare it all to the colored version. Cheyenne turns Phil's visual exposition into music. Look at the subtle shading of Lu'Agatha's face and the way he turns the headgear scrollwork into something almost three-dimensional.

edited 11th Oct '10 10:59:09 AM by GreybeardFan

Regarding your question at the top of the post above, Greybeard, an Heir Presumptive is next in line unless the current holder of the title produces a legitimate child. An Heir Apparent is the legitimate child and heir of the current title holder. By producing Gil as an Heir Apparent, Klaus almost certainly did some cousin or something out of a job as Heir Presumptive of Wulfenbach.

From the preceding pages, I would say Zola's in for a jarring drop to a hard floor, not a fall to her doom. I think the Captive Zola scenario is the most likely, since evading Zeetha and Higgs and Agatha and two Smoke Knights would require truly epic sneakiness at this range.

If Klaus returned to Europa to bring Gil to the inheritance he'd never have in the (presumed) Skifander matriarchy, it reinforces the idea that there were depths of him that Lucrezia couldn't see. He became a father. He accepted responsibility for his son. Lucrezia, on the other hand, apparently brought about the death of her son, Klaus Barry, and may have had a daughter for the purpose of killing said daughter and stealing daughter's body.

Thank you, datkhound.

edited 11th Oct '10 1:25:35 PM by GreybeardFan

Zeetha met Klaus during the "Battle Circus" denouement of the Strumhalten arc. She showed no signs of recognizing him. Klaus, of course, recognized her as Skifanderian on sight. It was when Klaus spoke in the Skifanderian tongue that Zeetha showed recognition. Recall, until she met Agatha, no one Zeetha knew had ever heard of Skifander, to the point that Zeetha was beginning to doubt her own memories.

Since Agatha had heard of Skifander from Barry, it's an obvious inference that the Heterodyne Boys & co. had at least one adventure there, possibly during the time between Lucrezia's association with the group and her engagement with Bill. Or she might have learned about Skifander after the adventure. Or possibly the Heterodynes chased the Mongfish to Skifander.

Since Zeetha is the only one with green hair we've seen in Europa, Gil's reaction to Klaus's description could merely mean that Gil hasn't heard of Skifander, which would only imply that his father hasn't told him about it.

Mayhap but he might have developed some suspicions here[1]. Note Zeetha's facial expression, like she's fishing for a response but then, when apparently the response isn't what she was looking for, changes the subject. The phrase "hardly ever" is suggestive, too.

edited 11th Oct '10 4:56:47 PM by OlBear

Yes, by that time Zeetha had had time to think, and whether or not she's Klaus' daughter, she would have certainly heard of him on the Skifanderian side. Klaus' use of the Skifanderian language was a big clue that he'd actually been in Skifander for quite some time. That, plus his appearance, should have nailed down his identity with certainty.

And Gil seems to have concluded that the mental discipline his father taught him came from Skifander.