Gunnerkrigg Court

Neither one was

That was already established

The real Annie were all the Annies we met along the way.

More seriously my current issue with this resolution is it seems to be resolving an ongoing mystery that caused Jurisdiction Friction at the divine level with an Anti-Climax we didn't even see on-page.

Edited by sgamer82 on Mar 10th 2021 at 2:55:03 AM

They're both real. There was a fork in the timeline.

Here's my understanding of this whole thing (hopefully this is a readable size):

The way in which none of the Annies are the one that's supposed to be there seems to be tied up with the ontological paradox* of how Annie was saved by the intervention of Kat who had already always intervened to save Annie from her perspective. In which case the fact there "should" be zero Annies is not directly related to how there were two Annies; we don't know if the Annie we saw for most of the comic (who already wasn't supposed to be there, post-Tic-Toc incident) was forked equally into both City and Forest, or if in some sense one of the copies was metaphysically subsequent or subordinate and "belonged" to a separate timeline that Loup created and took her from, rather than the one she was in. But any such property is irrelevant to their level of belonging to the world as people and thus I don't mind that it wasn't spelled out, even if this resolution isn't my favorite either.

As for the anti-climax, whatever mess Loup made with timelines hasn't necessarily been resolved, even if the two separate Annies that resulted from it have metaphysically been reconciled. There might be an Annieless timeline floating around that now can't have another Annie slotted back into it, or something like that. It's likely that's what Loup's "fix" would have been, anyways, IMO, which also would have been unsatisfying had it happened (and directly contradictory to the thematic concept that neither was "the real" Annie any more than the other); although admittedly I'd been expecting them to reject that solution, rather than circumvent it.

*Obligatory complaint against the English language that ontological paradoxes aren't really paradoxes.

Right so according to that diagram, which is exactly correct as explained by weird wall ghost thing, both Annies we've seen are invaders and native Annie is missing

"weird wall ghost thing"?

...oh, you mean Arbiter Saslamel.

We don't know that the way in which neither Annie belongs was necessarily caused by Loup, though; Saslamel's interpreter never said that much. I think there's a strong case for the idea that that condition was because of what Kat did. In that case, in this timeline where an Annie who did not belong existed, there was a fork, and Loup took the Annie from that fork and put it in the same first timeline. Thus there are only two timelines; plus a theoretical third timeline where Annie did die as Kat didn't save her which may or may not exist separately in some way but might be what Saslamel thinks their present timeline "should" be, in giving the "neither" answer.

This is consistent with what we know as well and so that diagram above may not be correct.

The question then of which Annie was the fork and which was the primary has been rendered irrelevant, first by their mutual recognition of each other as real (and not having an answer for the question of which one would get sent back to the forked timeline one was plucked from) and now totally moot by the fact they're one entity.

Edited by RaichuKFM on Mar 10th 2021 at 7:37:46 AM

Actually one thing I'm not 100% sure on is whether it really is a fork, or if it's three separate lines that just happen to be identical before a certain point. Though the fact that Kat was able to send the Tictoc back to affect things in the way that she did seems to support the "fork" interpretation. I don't see how they both could have survived the fall otherwise.

Ah, you me

Here's where the interpreter mentions creatures like Coyote being able to create additional timelines.

I'm not sure I'm following? If the current timeline is one where Annie did die (thus neither of the Annies would belong in it), then everyone else would know it; they'd be all, "Annie!! What!! I thought you were dead!!"

(so many post edits...)

Edited by Twiddler on Mar 10th 2021 at 4:59:37 AM

Basically what Raichu said.

Annie shouldn't have been there due to Kat's interference in the timestream.

Second Annie(whichever you want that to be) shouldn't have been there due to Loup's interference in the timestream.

Now both Annies are one, having all the memories and experiences of both. There is no missing Annie, and no mourning Annie, just the Annie who will not cling to, nor cast away her time with her mother.

What I mean is that the timeline they're in may be one that is "supposed" to have had Annie die; it obviously then didn't occur as it was "supposed" to, but Saslamel may have still referred to that in his judgement, and thus the surviving Annie didn't "belong" anymore than the forked Annie "belonged". After all, if "belonging" to the timeline is as simple as existing in the timeline, both Annies would belong; so the fact that Annie didn't die in the timeline doesn't imply her survival is supposed to belong to it.

There's also the roughly equivalent in consequence except more disturbing idea that there may be a 'prior' timeline where Annie did die, which was somehow overwritten by the timeline we know, but its pre-alteration state still serves as Saslamel's reference point for how the timeline "should" be.

Edited by RaichuKFM on Mar 10th 2021 at 8:08:24 AM

(re: paragraph 1) Ah, so either like this

(re: paragraph 2) Yeah, what happened "the first time" is still a mystery: [1] [2]

Yeah, like that.

And yeah stuff is really still up in the air with what was "first", as you point out.

My natural inclination for what's going on with Kat would be some kind of cascade; Annie dies, and Kat 1 eventually builds the Tic-Toc and pilots it to save her, in a new timeline; in this new timeline, Annie lives, but Kat 2 eventually builds a Tic-Toc and realizes she saved Annie, going on to save Annie 3; and so on, possibly for forever, with the Kats never quite realizing they're not directly saving their own Annies.

But Saslamel's statement sounds like this kind of timeline extravagance is not the natural state of affairs in the Gunnerkrigg world at all. And the Norns do imply there was something prior and this wasn't just Kat always already changed the past. So I don't have a strong guess.

Edited by RaichuKFM on Mar 10th 2021 at 8:42:06 AM

This might be referring to that something prior.

"you gotta keep an eye on her"

Edited by Twiddler on Mar 10th 2021 at 6:26:41 AM

Just a heads up, we’re not supposed to use the TVTropes image uploader for images in forum posts.

Really? I couldn't find any rule about it. But if you can point me toward some confirmation of that, then I'll, uh, well I guess there's no point reuploading them elsewhere and then linking them, since they're already here and there's no deleting them off the server. But I'll keep it in mind going forward.

I guess I can see why it would be a rule though — I can definitely see people abusing it and uploading tons of junk and memes and whatnot.

Edited by Twiddler on Mar 10th 2021 at 10:09:09 AM

It is interesting how her makeup goes from Creepy Child precocity to its abandonment being a milestone of growth.

To be fair that specific thread would make sense as an exception.

Maybe it was some sort of "please don't overuse it" statement?

2440. A new chapter page.

Well that's ... an ominous title.

Robots, maybe?

Omega?

2441

This gal!

Guess Kat took it well enough.