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What were Jack Horner's parents doing?
- Why didn't they do anything to keep/make Jack Horner good?
- Parents can't force their children to do the right thing beyond a certain age. Also, for all we know, Jack may have caused an unfortunate accident to get them out of the picture.
- Jack mentions that his parents were loving ones, so it seems that, despite raising him with affection and a sizable inheritance, Jack still turned out evil. This leads to two possible scenarios; either Jack is The Sociopath who would have turned out evil no matter how much his parents tried to set him straight, or he Used to Be a Good Kid but his entitlement and obsession with magic grew so all-consuming that it slowly eroded any morality he may have had as a child.
- Loving parents doesn't equal good and decent people, and you don't build a highly profitable enterprise by being a paragon of virtue.
- Alternatively, they may've been loving parents but were otherwise as villainous as Jack is or they may have been loving, if a bit distant. Since we don't really see 'em flashbacks (and the flashbacks are told from Jack's view), who knows?
What Specifically?
- Why upon his death, does Jack ask which specific crime was the crime that earned him his death? Shouldn't the obvious answer be that everything he did combined is why he deserved it?
- Comically Missing the Point is in action here. Jack being such a gleefully unrepentant villain blinded him to the idea that this was karma finally biting him.
- An alternate idea is that Jack was genuinely trying to find out the specific deed that got him stuck in the star, then he could use the wish to undo that deed. Though he was shut up before he could get any further.
- It could also be that he was asking what specific thing caused him to cross the Moral Event Horizon and made him go from just being bad to irredeemably evil.
- "Specifically," as in, Jack was unsure of which of his heinous crimes is what cemented in his awful Karmic Death. I mean, there's almost too many crimes to count; getting all of his mooks killed, trying to kill Puss and friends as well as Goldi and The Bears, harboring all of those magical items that he clearly got through deeply unethical means...
Why did Horner betray Kitty?
- You would think that being the most competent thief, Kitty would be more useful for Jack in getting the Map to the Wishing Star?
- Given his behavior during the movie, with him losing most of his mooks due to his own inconsiderate actions, Jack is most likely short-sighted enough to betray Kitty even though it would later deprive him of a valuable asset in his quest for the Wishing Star.
- He also hates talking animals. Part of his betrayal was possibly because he didn't want to keep his word towards something he hated anymore than he usually does.
What's stopping the Last Wish?
- There's enough hints that imply that the Wishing Star has some form of sentience. Why didn't it just go back to space on its own?
- Maybe it actually wanted people to reach it and make their wish, hence the magical map.
- It's possible that it can't - someone has to either a) destroy the map or b) wish it to be set free.
Baby Bear should take a hint
- You would think Papa and Mama Bear should have told their son not to alienate his sister with those digs about her being an orphan.
- None of the Bears, Baby included, knew what Goldi's intentions with the wish were. As far as he and his parents knew, what was going on was Sibling Rivalry banter, which had unintended consequences.
- In Baby’s defense, Goldi is equally as harsh towards him as he is towards her. His digs at her being an orphan are not much better than her calling him fat and stupid. It’s just how they talk, and it’s clear that neither actually mean it in a harmful way. Goldie’s insecurity was a surprise to everyone, not just Baby.
- The thing is, Mama and Papa actually do just that. When they get to Mama Luna's, Goldi orders Baby to sniff out Puss, and Baby protests because "you (meaning Goldi) don't tell me what to do." Mama tells him to follow his sister's orders, Baby replies with "She's not my sister, she's a fugitive orphan," to which Papa immediately responds with a whack over the head and a "She is your sister, and you do as she says." Couple that with the fact that they always take Goldi's side in any arguments ("No, son, you do. You do have dingleberries.") and I'm honestly surprised that Baby wasn't eager to wish for a 'proper family'.
What was Kitty's wish?
- I don't think it was ever mentioned. Was it to regain her claws?
- It was mentioned. She planned to wish for at least one person in the world that she could trust. But she gained that anyway by reconciling with Puss and meeting Perrito.
Puss Undervaluing His Wish
- Puss' wish was for simply eight more lives. While that's understandable to begin with when he thought the Wolf was just a bounty hunter, upon learning that the Wolf was Death incarnate, why would he not change his wish to be Complete Immortality? That would ensure Death couldn't just skewer him nine times in a row to instantly drain him of his lives if he wished for them back.
- We've never met any actual immortals in the Shrek universe (as far as I know anyway), so we don't know what the Wolf thinks of them. Besides, either way Puss wanted to extend his life, and after being counseled by Perrito and criticized by Kitty (and the Wolf later on), he decided his one life was enough and sought to enhance its value.
- If Wolf really wanted to kill Puss, I think he would've. More likely he wanted to scare Puss into changing his ways. Otherwise he would've burned through any extra lives just as quickly, and if he'd became immortal, he probably would've got even worse, no longer caring about anything or anyone.
Death's Final Appearance
- So throughout the movie, nobody except for Puss can see him because he was only after Puss, intending to take his last life. However, when he appears in the Wishing Star's location, Death is seen by every other character and can witness their battle even behind the flames. Why exactly did Death decide now to be seen by Puss's friends and the Bear Crime Family when they never could see him before?
- The previous times Death spoke to Puss they were alone, and the other two times was just him intimidating Puss with his presence. He likely decided to make himself visible to the other parties in their final battle simply because it was the first time they fought in front of others. Death doesn't seem to really care if people know he's physically in their presence (it's not like they can do anything to him), so long as his target is among them.
- Kitty and Jack thought Puss was being metaphorical when he spoke of Death being after him. Even Death actually had to clarify that he was Death in person come for Puss personally. Death is with us all, we just don't acknowledge it until it's forced on us.
- Death wants to humiliate Puss. He knows Puss's attention-seeking tendencies and decides to let everyone witness the confrontation. Either Death kills Puss or Puss runs away like a coward, ruining his reputation as the Fearless Hero.
- Alternatively, considering the entire scene took place under the Wishing Star itself, it's possible the power of the star was able to render Death visible to everyone.
- Alternatively alternatively, the fact that they're surrounded by a barrier of death means that they're all having a near-death experience, and as such, they can all see him. Heck, Jack even dies there.
- Triple alternatively, Death may never actually be invisible. He only shows up in places where Puss is alone, or lurks in the shadows where he can easily go unnoticed.
Big Jack's Nursery Rhyme
- Why in this universe does the "Little Jack Horner" rhyme have Horner Pie rather than Christmas pie? We know Christmas exists in the Shrek-verse due to "Shrek the Halls".
- It sounds like this was Horner Pies' advertising jingle.
- It's another tick in the "Jack Horner is Disney" checklist.
Pinocchio
- Why has Big Jack never gone after Pinocchio, the magical creature who (inadvertently) upstaged him?
- Too far away to reach. Firstly, Faarquad's duchy put out a bounty, separating the two when Gepetto turned in the puppet. Secondly, he got pulled even further away when Shrek went to deal with the kingdom troubles. Plus, with so many magical items in the way, Jack would doubtlessly get distracted by the other magical items and sidetracked by "Ooh, shiny!"
- Who's to say he didn't? There's WMG's that suggest he's the one who put Farquaad and/or Geppetto up to it in the first place.
Why not use the wish?
- Puss has plenty of time to use the wish before Death gets to him? So why not use it? Even if it wasn't to get his lives back.
- What's the point? Given that Death was able to move around and alter the star's defenses, it's safe to say that getting his last wish won't stop Death at all.
- Also, it's not just Death he's facing. Puss is struggling between his own desires and Kitty and Perrito's.
- Puss wanted to show to Kitty that he has changed and she can trust him now by giving her the wish. If he used it, he couldn't have given it to her. He also likely wanted to show Death that he doesn't fear him anymore, and using a wish to "cheat" him would have proven the opposite.
- If Puss does, then he hasn't learned anything... and there's nothing stopping Death from taking all nine of them on the spot.
Death with Death
- Since Death is preoccupied with his vendetta against Puss, how do the others, primarily the Baker's Dozen, die? Are their souls stuck in limbo until Death comes to claim them? Is Death not needed with death? How does it work?
- Maybe he can be in multiple places at once, and not necessarily in the same form. Plus, it took the wishing star's powers to reveal him to others, so it's not like not seeing him doesn't mean he wasn't there.
- How Death as a concept works in this setting isn't explained; we only know that he can take physical form at will. There would be people dying all over the world all the time, so presumably, Death physically being in one place doesn't hamper his work elsewhere.
- There's also the possibility that dying is an automated process. Death only intervenes in unique cases. And if it's true that Death is only there for respect, Death isn't trying to actually kill Puss. The whole problem seems to be Puss "laughing in the face of death", mocking him. Or this Death is personally created by the individual.
Far Far Away
- In the final scene, why are Puss and company sailing towards Far Far Away? I get that he's returning to meet Shrek and Donkey again, but they don't even live there. Or perhaps it's just the closest coastal landmark Puss could think of that would eventually lead him back to Shrek's swamp?
- A few years have passed since we last saw Shrek. He might have moved back to the Kingdom, Fiona might be there dealing with some royal business, Puss may have some business in Far Far Away to take care of first... or as you say, it might just be the closest port to Shrek's swamp.
Puss in hiding
- How did Death never find Puss when he was hiding at Mama Luna's house long enough to have grown a beard? The three bears managed to track him down just through scent and footprints, and they're shown to not be the brightest bulbs. Death meanwhile is an omnipresent being with intelligence, fast reflexes and (seemingly) the ability to teleport. Did he leave Puss alone when he seemed to give up his life of adventure, and only chased after him again when Puss started pursuing the wishing star?
- Likely so, as Death would have metaphorically killed "the legend" and he would also see it as Puss finally respecting and fearing him. When Puss decided to go after the star, Death didn't want him to gain any more lives that he would just squander again.
Threatening a Sociopath like Jack!
- When Big Jack Horner threatens to shoot Peritto in the face unless the cats hand over the map, he is interrupted by Goldilocks, who threatens to kill one of the Bakers Dozen unless he gives her and the bears the map. Why did she expect this to work, when it's established that he doesn't give a crap about them?
- Morale. It might not have an effect on Jack, but it would certainly have one on his minions. If Jack doesn't capitulate, they might very well turn on him.
- It was established to the audience that Jack doesn't care about the Bakers Dozen. That doesn't mean Goldi knows that.
Bakers Dozen
- Why exactly do they remain loyal to Big Jack even after already establishing his apathy towards them? You might say fear, but this is shown to be more of the regular pie factory workers reasoning for keeping them on his good side, and the workers are separate from the goons he assembled. And fear wouldn't explain why the last baker standing genuinely believed that Jack would even care to help her from disintegrating (not to mention one of the bakers that were shot by the unicorn horns wasn't afraid to tell him off for shooting her).
- They are on a quest for a wishing star and their boss wants ultimate cosmic power sans itty-bitty living space; perhaps in their minds if they demonstrated enough utility loyalty etc Jack would just undo whatever befell them.
- Perhaps their devotion to Jack is more akin to a Cult of Personality. The Baker's Dozen demonstrate a deep commitment to him to the point of being Jack's best enforcers, so it's quite possible that the loyalty stems from an unhealthy and one-sided devotion. After all, when one dies during the fight against the Flowers, he begs Jack to avenge his death, which means that the Bakers Dozen are convinced, at least on some level, that their loyalty is reciprocated and Jack actually cares about their lives. Jack never insults them to their faces, and his lack of consideration for their lives is only ever mentioned out loud to the Ethical Bug, as if its something he doesn't want the Bakers Dozen to know. It seems like a typical case of an abusive authority figure fostering some level of affection with their underlings when it's clear that the affection is heavily skewed.
- One theory
on Tumblr brings up the idea that the Bakers Dozen are all orphans that Jack adopted (to use for child labor, of course), and that they all see him as a father figure. Which, if true, makes their deaths due to his actions even more tragic.
Jack's Ethics
- Why does Jack keep Ethical Bug on him for so long? I doubt that he was ever really open to the idea of redemption or whatnot, so all Ethical Bug is doing is whinging and annoying him.
- Ethical Bug was part of Jack's collection perhaps he just didn't want to let EB go until he finally hit a nerve? Jack did lie at least a little bit about his backstory to prolong interaction.
- There's a theory going around that Jack kept Bug around for so long to torment the poor creature, supported by the fact that it wasn't until Bug gave up and declared Jack Horner "an irredeemable monster" that Jack flicked him off.
The mobsters who don't do mobster things
- Goldilocks and the three bears describe themselves as a crime family, indicating they're mobsters like Jack. So why do they act like mercenaries instead of hiring mercenaries?
- They are specifically a small time crime family. They don't have any mercenaries to hire (yet), so they have to do everything themselves. And they don't work for other people, only themselves: In the movie, the bears (minus Goldi) are trying to get the wish to become a big-time crime syndicate ("Not a big time crime syndicate, love, a big time crime family"), and in the The Trident short, they are getting the trident to make their porridge just right.
