Headscratchers / Justice League S2 E11 and 12 "A Better World"

• The Concept depends on Superman and the Justice League being willing to jump straight over to the Dark side just because Flash was murdered; I get that there was a nuclear war on the brink as well but it seems farfetched. And how did they take over the world? They were seven of them and the whole military.
  • It wasn't just that Flash was murdered and there was a nuclear war on the brink—it's also that Lex Luthor murdered Flash and was elected president, so he got away with it. Those things, particularly the American people electing Luthor, were enough to show the Justice League that "Hey, these people just can't handle democracy and their freedoms."
    
    As for how? They have Superman, who's invulnerable, and fast enough to dodge anything that can hurt him, especially when he's not holding back. The Martian Manhunter, who's all that and psychic and can become intangible. Wonder Woman, who's just a step below that. Green Lantern, who wields what's acknowledged, in universe, as the most powerful weapon in the universe. And Batman, who has near limitless resources and who, through Wayne Tech, probably has a considerable amount of pull with the US government.
    
    When they take the gloves off, there isn't a damn thing the US military could've done to stop them.
  • Presumably they convinced a few regional powers to work with them, maybe through popular revolutions (they could gain a lot of sympathy by reminding everyone Luthor is still a murderous super villain who very nearly took control of the richest most powerful nation on Earth). Their powers combined with conventional military might do the trick, though presumably someone would have held out somewhere.
• The episode ends with all the Justice Lords except Batman depowered by Luthor's ray, then sent back to their own world. With six of their greatest heroes powerless, does this mean that their Earth is completely screwed as soon as the Thanagarian invasion arrives? Or is Lord Hawkgirl's alternate costume (her helmet is identical to the one that League-Hawkgirl wore in the Thanagarian military) a signal that the invasion already happened or won't happen at all?
  • Judging by the series' tone, I'm guessing that the Justice Lords offered the Thanagarians a dual ultimatum and offer of alliance: their enemies' heads on a plate, or their own.
  • They still had Batman. The Thanagarians wouldn't have stood a chance.
  • Their timeline seemed to be set several years later, so they probably went through the invasion already. Now on the other hand, when the next planet-threatening crisis happens, that Earth is fairly screwed.
  • I thought the Justice Lords were imprisoned on this earth after being stripped of their powers. I may have to rewatch the end to make sure though.
  • Remember that Justice Lords Earth apparently has no war anymore (it's probably best not to think about how that happened) but they still have plenty of police and tanks on hand to deal with disturbances in Arkham Asylum... plus mass-produced Superman robots. Lord Batman could easily whip up robot duplicates of his allies to keep things under control while uniting the worlds military and police enough to combat any other invasion that comes in. Plus... mass-produced Superman robots.
    • Those Superman robots were worthless. They had decent physical strength but their endurance was pathetic; the Justice League were ripping the things apart with an absurd amount of minimal effort. They weren't bright either; demonstrating no strategy and even showing one of them thanking the League for a beating as its disembodied head flew through the air. The Thanagarians would have literally laughed their asses off when confronted by these things.
• Something else about "A Better World": The power-stripping gun Lex Luthor built and used on the Justice Lords. If it worked so well, why was it never used on any of the other supervillains the Justice League faced in the rest of the series? Why didn't Lex ever build another one? Given his photographic memory, it's not as if he couldn't remember how! Why didn't the superhero-paranoid government ask him to build them one?
  • Word of God on the issue is that since Lex turned the gun over to the League, they'd be ready with a countermeasure next time. Which is kind of a handwave, but hey. As for why they never used it again...the only thing I can think of is that it'd be too similar to lobotomizing all their enemies (since more Word of God states that it works by generating some sort of neurological interference, which is the only reason it works on so many different powers—particularly the reason it was able to affect GL).
    • Why not just have Luthor try to build a better gun? We the viewers know in-story that they went the Frankenstein route so that their creations (Doomsday, the Ultimen, Galatea) could turn on them and prove the league was right all along but mechanical countermeasures can't think for themselves and escape your control unlike biological ones.
    • There's always the possibility that Lex is perfectly willing to lie and cheat, but when he makes an actual DEAL with someone, he upholds it. When he didn't use the gun on the real League at the end of the episode he does mention "A deal's a deal" and hands the gun over rather than taking the opportunity to defeat the real League once and for all. I know I'm stretching, but I have seen a character in some game or something I once played who would lie, double cross, etc, but if he actually swore an oath to do(or not do) something, he would uphold it no matter how much he disliked the idea.
    • BRAINIAC
    • Also, organic beings have greater ingenuity and initiative than machines and can adapt; they can be hacked as well.
    • I thought Project Cadmus was the "better gun," and Luthor's presidential pardon was just a way of getting his scientific knowledge under government control. Like Werner von Braun. (Although I admit even one of those 'inhibitor guns' would have been awfully handy when Cadmus was trying to destroy the League.)
• What the hell happened to the Guardians in the alternate universe? Didn't Sinestro try to do almost the exact same thing on his homeworld as John Stewart was participating in with the Justice Lords?
  • Remember it's a parallel universe and not a divergent one (they've always called themselves the Justice LORDS for example, something one can infer from Batman showing his teammates the viewer and going 'but they call themselves the Justice LEAGUE) therefor the personalities of the Guardians in that universe don't have to be identical to the one from the 'main' Earth. So Justice Lords GL might actually have Sinestro as the Role Model of GL behavior rather than a reviled traitor. One has more reason to consider the general acceptance by everyone else to Superman killing Luthor (of whom plenty of non-lethal methods were available, heck with the way Lex was taunting him wasting time Superman could have easily heat vision vaporized the control button and/or Lex's hand and arm to stop him), clearly everyone was darker and less heroic in that universe. Ironically enough you have Hawkgirl being the one showing concern for their methods and John, a black man who in theory shouldn't be behind such oppression instead supporting it wholeheartedly and missing the fact that people still live in terror only now it's of him and his teammates.
    • Divergent universes are a type of parallel universes, so making that distinction is the same as saying, "That's an animal, not a dog." That being said, the Justice Lords universe could very well be a divergent universe where the timeline diverges, with Luthor taking office, before the League was even formed. The evidence for this is that only Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman were there during the attack on the White House.
    • They point they are trying to make is that in a parallel timeline, the foundation of these characters personalities and history can be very different. Not just Superman went left instead of right in episode 5 of his series. It's easier to explain it with worlds where Superman is active in the 1950's. That's a bit more than just a divergence.
  • Let's not forget Thanagar. Shayera's still their inside man and they'd still have to build that hyperspace bypass.
• One thing that bugs me: this episode is before Justice League Unlimited. What happened to the other heroes? Where are Vixen, Black Canary, Red Tornado, and the others? Why aren't they trying to stop the Justice Lords? Were they killed for their defiance?
• J'onn mentions that martians not only don't, but CAN'T read each other's minds, most likely put there as a Hand Wave as to why J'onn didn't read the alternate's mind, discover the Lords' plan, and the League thus refuse to go to the alternate dimension. However this makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER. This is simply because martians would have had no reason to ever evolve the ability to read minds if they can't read each other's minds, and even if they did because of some evolutionary fluke, they'd have no reason to practice reading minds and thus maintain the ability to use it.
  • Almost none of any fictional species' abilities and traits make no sense under scrutiny of how they would have evolved. Its not really something a creator should have to worry about if they can tell a unique story and have creative powers.
  • There has to be some sort of binding logic behind everything in fiction or the suspension of disbelief would fail. There has to be a reason why the ability that a fictional species has exists, or the medium starts to devolve into nonsense.
    • Not really. And if you have a problem with J'onn's ability, then you certainly must think Superman's is nonsense, because his species evolved the ability to gain power from a type of radiation that doesn't even exist in their star system. And yet he's the classic, definitive superhero.
    • Actually, I find Superman's abilities less crazy than J'onn's. It really doesn't make sense why Martians developed telepathy when it serves no practical use to them. Though perhaps in the distant past it served some use, perhaps it was too dangerous to speak. Kryptonians however just happen to react extremely well to different kind of radiation. It's entirely random making no less sense than any of the other dozens of heroes who gained superpowers via radiation, toxic goo or DNA scrambled animals.
    • Perhaps the bit that Martians can't read other Martian minds was not meant to be absolute: they may not do it with just any random Martian, but only with Martians with whom they have some special link... like, for example, husband and wife. It may even be a mating feature, available only between male and female (male and female martians, that is; humans and other non-Martians are something else, easier to read). Remember the context as well. If he began to say something like "I can't read his mind because he's a male, and wouldn't do it even if I could because in our race the unwilling reading of minds is taboo", it would go too much off-topic, with the alternate universe Martian talking about the grave danger and what not. So, to tell Batman "Both" is akin to say, "I will not read his mind, period, now get lost".
  • One possible explanation: Once the first glimmerings of telepathic ability developed, an evolutionary Lensman Arms Race started between ability to probe others' minds and ability to detect and/or resist probing. The end result would be Martians who could read other species' minds fairly easily (since they didn't develop such telepathic defenses), but have difficulties reading each other without consent (even setting aside cultural/ethical qualms about doing so). Even with those limitations, the power would still be useful within Martian civilization (for communicating with a consenting partner on a deeper level than speech), so it wouldn't become a useless vestige and die out.
  • It is the consideration of some that telepathic communication is a different thing from reading minds. This means that reading Justice Lord's J'onn without his knowledge and consent would be both something he can't and won't do, while normal speaking to each others' minds is a perfectly normal and acceptable thing. Considering the fact that Batman is trying to verify the story, it implies that he is asking J'onn to "invade" the other martian's mind. J'onn, being telepathic, knows what Batman means. Telepathy is still a practical, quick, and effective means of communication, but not of invading someones' privacy or similar things. It also implies that martians can't mindwipe other martians and so forth.
  • Yes, the best explanation is that, if Martians have the ability to read minds, they also have the ability to protect their own minds from others. Make sense that a telepath can’t read another telepath’s mind without consent.
    • If that's the case, then J'onn is a fool for not trying to read Lord!J'onn mind and then asking him why he was blocking him if he had nothing to hide from them.
  • Martians having mental defenses against other Martians could also be the reason why Lord J'onn was the one sent to lure the League in with the "dimensional collapse" story, rather than one of the others — if the story had been true, Lord Green Lantern (most familiar of the group with wide-ranging "cosmic" matters) or Lord Batman (the smart guy of the group) would seem more logical choices.
  • Didn't Mars have other native life forms? I assumed that was the basis for J'onn's shapeshifting; he takes the form of Martian monsters. An organism that can nonviolently pacify or read the intentions of a predator using telepathy would have a pretty enormous evolutionary advantage. From there it stands to reason that the telepathy they developed to counter external threats could be used to thwart invasive mind reading from one another.
  • A better question is, why not just have J'onn read some other Lord's mind?
• Explain functions of the power draining gun. I can understand it depowering Flash and Lantern. But Supes, Wondy, Hawkgirl (her flight) and Jones technically aren't superpowered. Their abilities are apart of their species' natural attributes
  • Superman's powers aren't natural. Kryptonians all seem to have the same reaction to being exposed to yellow sun radiation instead of developing random powers like seems to happen most of the time when comic book characters are exposed to radiation but that doesn't make it natural. Beyond that it doesn't make a terrible amount of sense unless the gun doesn't actually drain powers instead of "giving" them powers identical to a regular human being and overwriting their own individual physiology. It's also the best answer for why it works on five different characters who are in order mutated by a freak accident, powered by solar radiation, created by a literal goddess, and two breeds of aliens with natural abilities. No single fix should affect such a broad group of individuals.
  • From a Doylist perspective it's easy: the gun takes away any powers that "normal" people don't have in our reality. In-universe it's harder to justify; taking a detour through Wild Mass Guessing territory, the best explanation I could come up with would be that it actually slaps the target with a specialized but powerful mind control effect — hammering the "realization" that they've lost their powers after that hit straight into their subconscious. Which then of course everybody who actually knows how the gun works is very, very careful to not let accidentally slip since it means that the "power drain" is actually largely a bluff and any victim who realizes that might find a way to regain access to them by breaking through that enforced conditioning.
  • Actually I was thinking the opposite; how does the ray works with Green Lantern? His powers come from the ring, he is like Batman, has no superpowers, his abilities are provided by technology (albeit a very advance one). It is possible to, for example, modify Superman’s cells for them not to absorb power from the yellow sun, also modify J’onn’s organisms for not to be able to change or read minds and Wonder Woman’s flying and superstrength although magical can also be altered by physics, but Green Lantern’s ring? Yes, lets suppose the ring gets deactivated somehow, couldn’t he just request the Guardians for a new one?
  • The issue is Green Lantern's ability to activate and control the power of the ring. That can be disrupted (as it was in "Hearts and Minds"), leaving him unable to use the ring. After Lord Green Lantern got zapped, he tried to use the ring and produced some random flickers of green light, suggesting that there's still some power there but he can't do anything useful with it.
• I understand it's a plot point but... how come the Lords' Luthor stated that he can only be prevented from pushing a button by deadly force? For starters, the gap between his thumb and the button seems to be enough for Supes to place his palm between the two, and I really doubt Lex would have been able to push it away.
  • The button is symbolic, he is the president and he can order the use of nuclear weapons even if he doesn’t push the button literally.
• Why did Superman leave Luthor in charge of depowering the Justice Lords! Why didn't he do it himself after he and Luthor assembled the gun?
  • Luthor is a prideful prick and sometimes delves into childish fantasies. He has wanted to take Superman down for years. It is within his character to demand that he be the one to fire the gun to take down Superman. "Look Superman, you need me. You need my weapon. I just want a pardon and the chance to be the one to take you down." "Fine Lex. I'll let you shoot my counterpart. Then you hand over the gun to the League and won't make another one." "It's a deal."
• What would it take to convince Batman that the world is better under the absolute control of the Justice League? He managed to make a good argument to the main universe's Batman but that probably came after years of seeing the progress the Lords thought they had made and thinking their way was the only way. How would a Batman with no real temperment towards autocracy come to adopt it?
  • As mentioned above, the Lords' universe was different from the League's even before Superman killed Luthor. Also, in the comics there is at least one story where future Batman did basically the same thing to Gotham.
• Why did the power disruptor work on Lord Green Lantern? Like Batman, the Green Lanterns derive their “powers” from skills and technology, so it logically shouldn’t have worked on him.
  • Word of God says that the power disruptor affects the nervous system. Technically, anyone affected by it still has their powers, they just can't use them anymore. What this doesn't explain is how Lord Superman is somehow unable to "keep using" his invulnerability.