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* HarsherInHindsight: Larten being the one to kill Murlough. ''Literature/TheSagaOfLartenCrepsley'' reveals that Murlough had killed Wester's family and this resulted in a grudge against vampanezes and killing Larten's girlfriend and putting the blame on a vampaneze in an attempt to start a war against vampires and vampanezes. Wester was Larten's best friend, but he was forced to kill him.

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* HarsherInHindsight: Larten being the one Larten's grudge on Murlough and his words to kill Murlough. Darren about not getting obsessed with revenge. ''Literature/TheSagaOfLartenCrepsley'' reveals that Larten's best friend, Wester Flack was obsessed with revenge after Murlough had killed Wester's his family and this resulted in a grudge against vampanezes and killing Larten's girlfriend and putting the blame on a vampaneze in an attempt to start a war against vampires and vampanezes. Even though Larten killed Wester was Larten's best friend, but and acted like he was forced to kill didn't exist for the rest of the books, it's clear it has affected him.

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* HarsherInHindsight: Larten being the one to kill Murlough. ''Literature/TheSagaOfLartenCrepsley'' reveals that Murlough had killed Wester's family and this resulted in a grudge against vampanezes and killing Larten's girlfriend and putting the blame on a vampaneze in an attempt to start a war against vampires and vampanezes. Wester was Larten's best friend, but he was forced to kill him.



** Steve/Gannen, due to the later's loyalty towards him.
** Kurda/Glalda

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** Steve/Gannen, due to the later's loyalty towards him.
him. Gannen is just following orders and actually hates Steve thogh.
** Kurda/GlaldaKurda/Glalda, especially in the manga.
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** Kurda/Gavner

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** Kurda/GavnerKurda/Glalda
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* TearJerker:
** [[spoiler: After Mr.Crepsley dies, the way Darren describes him is heartbreaking.]]
** [[spoiler: Sam's death, especially how Darren acts afterwards.]]
** [[spoiler: Darren's description of his abandoning his friends and family in the first book is crushingly depressing.]]
** [[spoiler: When Darren said good bye to Mr. Crepsley before entering the Hall of Flames, and asked him to take his body to his hometown and burry him in his grave, in case he didn't make it, so he could be close to his family. Even [[TheStoic Larten]] dropped a SingleTear. ]]
** [[spoiler: Darren seeing Gavner murdered by their friend. Darren returning to Vampire Mountain to accuse his friend of treason. Kurda looking at Darren with a sad smile while he's being interrogated.]]
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** Darius, full stop. The boy lives with only his divorced mother, wondering why his father doesn't live with them. Then his father reaches up to him after years, and he accepts to join his Vampaneze army in an attempt to impress him. Also, his hostility towards vampires and the Cirque du Freak is a result of Steve feeding his head with lies. Then his father kills Shancus Von and finds out the hard way that he couldn't care less about his son and only manipulated him for the sake of his revenge on Darren. And he's unwillingly transformed into a Vampaneze by Steve, in order to mess with Darren more. Even after Darren saves Darius, it's clear he doesn't have sympathy for the boy at all and only sees him as the son of his enemy.

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** Darius, full stop. The boy lives with only his divorced mother, wondering why his father doesn't live with them. Then his father reaches up to him after years, and he accepts to join his Vampaneze army in an attempt to impress him. Also, his hostility towards vampires and the Cirque du Freak is a result of Steve feeding his head with lies. Then his father kills Shancus Von and finds out the hard way that he couldn't care less about his son and only manipulated him for the sake of his revenge on Darren. And he's unwillingly transformed into a Vampaneze by Steve, in order to mess with Darren more. Even after Darren saves Darius, it's clear he doesn't have sympathy for the boy at all and only sees him as the son of his enemy.enemy's son.
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** Darius. The boy lives with only his divorced mother, wondering why his father doesn't live with them. Then his father reaches up to him after years, and he accepts to join his Vampaneze army in an attempt to impress him. Also, his hostility towards vampires and the Cirque du Freak is a result of Steve feeding his head with lies. Then his father kills Shancus Von and finds out the hard way that he couldn't care less about his son and only manipulated him for the sake of his revenge on Darren. And he's unwillingly transformed into a Vampaneze by Steve, in order to mess with Darren more. Even after Darren saves Darius, it's clear Darren doesn't have sympathy for the boy at all and only sees him as his son's enemy.

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** Darius.Darius, full stop. The boy lives with only his divorced mother, wondering why his father doesn't live with them. Then his father reaches up to him after years, and he accepts to join his Vampaneze army in an attempt to impress him. Also, his hostility towards vampires and the Cirque du Freak is a result of Steve feeding his head with lies. Then his father kills Shancus Von and finds out the hard way that he couldn't care less about his son and only manipulated him for the sake of his revenge on Darren. And he's unwillingly transformed into a Vampaneze by Steve, in order to mess with Darren more. Even after Darren saves Darius, it's clear Darren he doesn't have sympathy for the boy at all and only sees him as the son of his son's enemy.
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* AmericansHateTingle: Darren/Steve is a very popular ship in Japan, but while it is still a fan favorite ship, it is received much less warmly in the west because many fans who don't like this coupling perceive it as very abusive and unhealthy and can't forgive Steve for his evil deeds. Or the fact that ''"Sons of Destiny"'' reveals they're related.

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* AmericansHateTingle: Darren/Steve is a very popular ship in Japan, but while it is still a fan favorite ship, it is received much less warmly in the west because many fans who don't like this coupling perceive it as very abusive and unhealthy and can't forgive Steve for his evil deeds. [[LongLostRelative Or the fact that ''"Sons ''Sons of Destiny"'' Destiny'' reveals they're related.related]].



* BaseBreakingCharacter: Steve. Many despise him for his continued antagonistic behavior towards Darren, acting like an UngratefulBastard for his sacrifice and [[spoiler: manipulating the events that resulted in Larten's death]]. Others believe he was forced into villany due to being manipulated by Mr. Tiny from the beginning and feeling betrayed and abandoned by Darren. His relationship with Darren is seen as either one of the best written relationships in the franchise or borderline abuse (Though few would call it very healthy).

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* BaseBreakingCharacter: Steve. Many despise him for his continued antagonistic behavior towards Darren, acting like an UngratefulBastard for his sacrifice and [[spoiler: manipulating the events that resulted in Larten's death]]. Others believe he was forced into villany due to being manipulated by Mr. Tiny from the beginning and feeling betrayed and abandoned by Darren. His relationship Also, his friendship and eventual FoeYay with Darren is seen as either one of the best written relationships in the franchise or borderline abuse (Though few would call it very healthy).
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* AmericansHateTingle: Darren/Steve is a very popular ship in Japan, but while it is still a fan favorite ship, it is received much less warmly in the west because many fans who don't like this coupling perceive it as very abusive and unhealthy and can't forgive Steve for his evil deeds. Or the fact that ''"Sons of Destiny"'' reveals they're related.


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* HoYay:
** Debbie/Alice, due to being close friends. According to [[https://crepsleymika.tumblr.com/post/166988588505/take-it-to-the-fucking-bank-boys-debbie-and-alice a post]] by WordOfGod, they were supposed to be a lesbian couple but was removed due to ExecutiveMeddling.
** Darren/Steve has a very notable fan following too, especially in the Japanese fandom.
** Larten/Darren seems to be another favored pairing in the fandom.
** Steve/Gannen, due to the later's loyalty towards him.
** Kurda/Gavner
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** Steve was born into a loveless family and saw his friend Darren as his LivingEmotionalCrutch. After Darren becomes a vampire to save his life, Steve sees it as a horrible betrayal and vows to kill Darren in the future, becoming cruel, vindictive, and unhinged to the point of outright sociopathy. Then it's revealed he was just an UnwittingPawn in Mr. Tiny's plans and dies believing Darren did took his dream away. It's especially sadder in the manga, where his friendship with Darren is more emphasized and he's a nicer person before everything goes to hell.

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** Steve was born into a loveless family and saw his friend Darren as his LivingEmotionalCrutch. After Darren becomes a vampire to save his life, Steve sees it as a horrible betrayal and vows to kill Darren in the future, becoming cruel, vindictive, and unhinged to the point of outright sociopathy. Then it's revealed he was just an UnwittingPawn in Mr. Tiny's plans and dies believing Darren did took his dream away. It's especially sadder in the manga, where his friendship with Darren is more emphasized and he's a nicer person before everything goes to hell.
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** If [[spoiler: turning against Darren, using a decoy in order to make Larten die in a SenselessSacrifice, impregnating Annie Shan and then leaving her, and killing Shancus Von]] wasn't enough, then Steve admitting that he [[spoiler: made his revenge on Darren so convoluted was because it would be more fun for himself]] is what does it.

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** If [[spoiler: turning against Darren, using a decoy in order to make Larten die in a SenselessSacrifice, impregnating Annie Shan and then leaving her, and killing Shancus Von]] wasn't enough, then Steve admitting that he [[spoiler: made his revenge on Darren so convoluted was because it would be more fun for himself]] is what does it.
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** MoralEventHorizon: If [[spoiler: turning against Darren, using a decoy in order to make Larten die in a SenselessSacrifice, impregnating Annie Shan and then leaving her, and killing Shancus Von]] wasn't enough, then Steve admitting that he [[spoiler: made his revenge on Darren so convoluted was because it would be more fun for himself]] is what does it.

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** MoralEventHorizon: If [[spoiler: turning against Darren, using a decoy in order to make Larten die in a SenselessSacrifice, impregnating Annie Shan and then leaving her, and killing Shancus Von]] wasn't enough, then Steve admitting that he [[spoiler: made his revenge on Darren so convoluted was because it would be more fun for himself]] is what does it.
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* * SugarWiki/AwesomeArt: The manga features gorgeous artwork and character designs. It only gets better as the series goes on and it helps it's a [[AdaptationExpansion mostly]] faithful rendition of the novels.

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* * SugarWiki/AwesomeArt: The manga features gorgeous artwork and character designs. It only gets better as the series goes on and it helps it's a [[AdaptationExpansion mostly]] faithful rendition of the novels.

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* * SugarWiki/AwesomeArt: The manga features gorgeous artwork and character designs. It only gets better as the series goes on and it helps it's a [[AdaptationExpansion mostly]] faithful rendition of the novels.



** [[spoiler: Steve, when he kills Shancus Von.]] There was no reason for it neither; he did it just to screw with [[spoiler: Evra.]]

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** MoralEventHorizon: If [[spoiler: Steve, when he kills turning against Darren, using a decoy in order to make Larten die in a SenselessSacrifice, impregnating Annie Shan and then leaving her, and killing Shancus Von.]] There was no reason for it neither; Von]] wasn't enough, then Steve admitting that he did it just to screw with [[spoiler: Evra.]]made his revenge on Darren so convoluted was because it would be more fun for himself]] is what does it.
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** Darius. The boy lives with only his divorced mother, wondering why his father doesn't live with them. Then his father reaches up to him after years, and he accepts to join his Vampaneze army in an attempt to impress him. Also, his hostility towards vampires and the Cirque du Freak is a result of Steve feeding his head with lies. Then his father kills Shancus Von and finds out the hard way that he couldn't care less about his son and only manipulated him for the sake of his revenge on Darren. Even after he's saved by Darren transforming him into a vampire, it's clear Darren doesn't have sympathy for the boy at all and only sees him as his son's enemy.

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** Darius. The boy lives with only his divorced mother, wondering why his father doesn't live with them. Then his father reaches up to him after years, and he accepts to join his Vampaneze army in an attempt to impress him. Also, his hostility towards vampires and the Cirque du Freak is a result of Steve feeding his head with lies. Then his father kills Shancus Von and finds out the hard way that he couldn't care less about his son and only manipulated him for the sake of his revenge on Darren. And he's unwillingly transformed into a Vampaneze by Steve, in order to mess with Darren more. Even after he's saved by Darren transforming him into a vampire, saves Darius, it's clear Darren doesn't have sympathy for the boy at all and only sees him as his son's enemy.
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None


** Darius. The boy lives with only his divorced mother, wondering why his father doesn't live with them. Then his father reaches up to him after years, and he accepts to join his Vampaneze army in an attempt to impress him. Also, his hostility towards vampires and the Cirque du Freak is a result of Steve feeding his head with lies. Then his father kills Shancus Von and finds out the hard way that he couldn't care less about his son and only manipulated him for the sake of his revenge on Darren. Even after he's saved by Darren transforming him into a vampire, it's clear Darren doesn't hold love towards the boy and only sees him as his son's enemy.

to:

** Darius. The boy lives with only his divorced mother, wondering why his father doesn't live with them. Then his father reaches up to him after years, and he accepts to join his Vampaneze army in an attempt to impress him. Also, his hostility towards vampires and the Cirque du Freak is a result of Steve feeding his head with lies. Then his father kills Shancus Von and finds out the hard way that he couldn't care less about his son and only manipulated him for the sake of his revenge on Darren. Even after he's saved by Darren transforming him into a vampire, it's clear Darren doesn't hold love towards have sympathy for the boy at all and only sees him as his son's enemy.
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None


** Steve was born into a loveless family and sees his friend Darren as his LivingEmotionalCrutch. After Darren becomes a vampire to save his life, Steve sees it as a horrible betrayal and vows to kill Darren in the future, becoming cruel, vindictive, and unhinged to the point of outright sociopathy. Then it's revealed he was just an UnwittingPawn in Mr. Tiny's plans and dies believing Darren did took his dream away. It's especially sadder in the manga, where his friendship with Darren is more emphasized and he's a nicer person before everything goes to hell.

to:

** Steve was born into a loveless family and sees saw his friend Darren as his LivingEmotionalCrutch. After Darren becomes a vampire to save his life, Steve sees it as a horrible betrayal and vows to kill Darren in the future, becoming cruel, vindictive, and unhinged to the point of outright sociopathy. Then it's revealed he was just an UnwittingPawn in Mr. Tiny's plans and dies believing Darren did took his dream away. It's especially sadder in the manga, where his friendship with Darren is more emphasized and he's a nicer person before everything goes to hell.
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** Plus, the books are so violent and gory, it's not even funny.

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** Plus, the books are so violent and gory, it's not even funny.funny.
* TheWoobie: Practically every character in the saga is this, to some extent.
** Darren becomes a vampire to save his best friend's life, only for said friend to turn on him after believing he betrayed him. He's separated from his family and friends and forced to fake his death. Then he adjusts to his life as a vampire and meets new friends during his journey, only for most of them to end up dead or worse than before. Then Mr. Crepsley (who Darren had begun to see as a father figure) dies and he finds out his best friend now is an unstable murderer and wants him dead. No wonder he snaps after finding out he was a pawn in Mr. Tiny's plans.
** Steve was born into a loveless family and sees his friend Darren as his LivingEmotionalCrutch. After Darren becomes a vampire to save his life, Steve sees it as a horrible betrayal and vows to kill Darren in the future, becoming cruel, vindictive, and unhinged to the point of outright sociopathy. Then it's revealed he was just an UnwittingPawn in Mr. Tiny's plans and dies believing Darren did took his dream away. It's especially sadder in the manga, where his friendship with Darren is more emphasized and he's a nicer person before everything goes to hell.
** Evra. His biological parents treated him like a monster and sold him to a circus where the ringmaster abused him, until he was saved by Mr. Tall. He's remarkably well adjusted in spite of it.
** Darius. The boy lives with only his divorced mother, wondering why his father doesn't live with them. Then his father reaches up to him after years, and he accepts to join his Vampaneze army in an attempt to impress him. Also, his hostility towards vampires and the Cirque du Freak is a result of Steve feeding his head with lies. Then his father kills Shancus Von and finds out the hard way that he couldn't care less about his son and only manipulated him for the sake of his revenge on Darren. Even after he's saved by Darren transforming him into a vampire, it's clear Darren doesn't hold love towards the boy and only sees him as his son's enemy.
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* AmericansHateTingle: Darren/Steve is a very popular ship in Japan, but while it is still a fan favorite ship, it is received much less warmly in the west because many fans who don't like this coupling perceive it as very abusive and unhealthy and can't forgive Steve for his evil deeds.

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* BaseBreakingCharacter: Steve. Many despise him for his continued antagonistic behavior towards Darren, acting like an UngratefulBastard for his friend's sacrifice and [[spoiler: manipulating Larten into killing a decoy lord that resulted in his death]]. Others believe he was forced into villany due to being manipulated by Mr. Tiny from the beginning and feeling betrayed and abandoned by Darren. His relationship with Darren is seen as either one of the best written relationships in the franchise or borderline abuse (Though few would call it very healthy).

to:

* AmericansHateTingle: Darren/Steve is a very popular ship in Japan, but while it is still a fan favorite ship, it is received much less warmly in the west because many fans who don't like this coupling perceive it as very abusive and unhealthy and can't forgive Steve for his evil deeds.
* BaseBreakingCharacter: Steve. Many despise him for his continued antagonistic behavior towards Darren, acting like an UngratefulBastard for his friend's sacrifice and [[spoiler: manipulating Larten into killing a decoy lord the events that resulted in his Larten's death]]. Others believe he was forced into villany due to being manipulated by Mr. Tiny from the beginning and feeling betrayed and abandoned by Darren. His relationship with Darren is seen as either one of the best written relationships in the franchise or borderline abuse (Though few would call it very healthy).



* FanPreferredCouple: If you look on Fanfiction.Net, Deviant Art or any other poll site, you'll probably notice that Darren/Steve is the most popular. Either because of their FoeYay in the books, because of the subtext they have in the manga, or both.
** It doesn't help that Takahiro Arai (the artist for the manga) likes them and deliberately added more scenes of them together that weren't in the original books. Also his next work ''Manga/{{Arago}}'' features Arago and Seth, whose designs resemble Steve and Darren respectively.

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* FanPreferredCouple: FanPreferredCouple:
**
If you look on Fanfiction.Net, Deviant Art or any other poll site, you'll probably notice that Darren/Steve is the most popular. Either because of their FoeYay in the books, because of the subtext they have in the manga, or both.
** *** It doesn't help that Takahiro Arai (the artist for the manga) likes them and deliberately added more scenes of them together that weren't in the original books. Also his next work ''Manga/{{Arago}}'' features Arago and Seth, whose designs resemble Steve and Darren respectively.respectively.
** Darren/Larten is also very popular towards those who saw their close bond as more than father-and-son.

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* BrokenBase: The ending of the series which involves [[spoiler:Darren pulling a ResetButton by going back in time as a reconstructed Little Person and scaring away his younger self so that the events of the series never happen in that timeline, as the Darren who experienced those events gets to AscendToAHigherPlaneOfExistence]]. Was it a fitting end to Darren's saga or a cheap cop-out that renders the reader's investment in the series completely pointless?

to:

* BrokenBase: BaseBreakingCharacter: Steve. Many despise him for his continued antagonistic behavior towards Darren, acting like an UngratefulBastard for his friend's sacrifice and [[spoiler: manipulating Larten into killing a decoy lord that resulted in his death]]. Others believe he was forced into villany due to being manipulated by Mr. Tiny from the beginning and feeling betrayed and abandoned by Darren. His relationship with Darren is seen as either one of the best written relationships in the franchise or borderline abuse (Though few would call it very healthy).
* BrokenBase:
**
The book ending of the series which involves splits fans pretty evenly. Was [[spoiler:Darren pulling a ResetButton by going back in time as a reconstructed Little Person and scaring away his younger self so that the events of the series never happen in that timeline, as the Darren who experienced those events gets to AscendToAHigherPlaneOfExistence]]. Was it timeline]] a fitting end to Darren's the saga or a cheap cop-out that renders the reader's investment in the series completely pointless?pointless?
** Speaking of introducing the franchise to newbies, "what to watch first" between the books or manga is a contentious topic. What most people can agree on is that the 2009 movie was a terrible CompressedAdaptation.


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** It doesn't help that Takahiro Arai (the artist for the manga) likes them and deliberately added more scenes of them together that weren't in the original books. Also his next work ''Manga/{{Arago}}'' features Arago and Seth, whose designs resemble Steve and Darren respectively.

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* AuthorsSavingThrow: The ending of the books was criticized due to [[spoiler:Darren going back in time so that the events of the series never happen]] and the BlackAndGrayMorality and ambiguous "heroics" of the cast. The manga ending however rectified this by [[spoiler:showing what happened to the rest of the characters after the time-reset, having Darren's friends helping him to deliver the books to Mr. Tall and alternate world!Darren still being friends with Steve]]. The manga ending also puts more emphasis in Darren and Steve's broken friendship, to the point it's a vital part of [[spoiler: Steve deciding to abandon his obsession with becoming a vampire in the new timeline.]]



** Downplayed in the manga ending, [[spoiler: which shows that Darren did manage to change things in the end and his alternate world counterpart is still friends with Steve, who finally abandons his obsession with becoming a vampire.]]


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* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: The series is relentlessly grim, with common criticisms being that nothing ever goes well for anybody.

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* BrokenBase: The ending of the series which involves [[spoiler:Darren pulls a ResetButton by going back in time as a reconstructed Little Person and scaring away his younger self so that the events of the series never happen in that timeline, as the Darren who experienced those events gets to AscendToAHigherPlaneOfExistence]]. Was it a fitting end to Darren's saga or a cheap cop-out that renders the reader's investment in the series completely pointless?

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* BrokenBase: The ending of the series which involves [[spoiler:Darren pulls pulling a ResetButton by going back in time as a reconstructed Little Person and scaring away his younger self so that the events of the series never happen in that timeline, as the Darren who experienced those events gets to AscendToAHigherPlaneOfExistence]]. Was it a fitting end to Darren's saga or a cheap cop-out that renders the reader's investment in the series completely pointless?pointless?
** Downplayed in the manga ending, [[spoiler: which shows that Darren did manage to change things in the end and his alternate world counterpart is still friends with Steve, who finally abandons his obsession with becoming a vampire.]]


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* FanPreferredCouple: If you look on Fanfiction.Net, Deviant Art or any other poll site, you'll probably notice that Darren/Steve is the most popular. Either because of their FoeYay in the books, because of the subtext they have in the manga, or both.
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* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: The books were incredibly popular in Japan, thanks in part to the manga adaptation.
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* LauncherOfAThousandShips: Darren is shipped with almost everyone in the series: from Steve, Larten, Evra, Debbie, Kurda, etc.
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Not approved by the Magnificent Bastard cleanup thread.


* MagnificentBastard.
** Steve. Oh, God, ''Steve''.
** Mr. Desmond Tiny
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* Broken Base: The ending of the series which involves [[spoiler:Darren pulls a ResetButton by going back in time as a reconstructed Little Person and scaring away his younger self so that the events of the series never happen in that timeline, as the Darren who experienced those events gets to AscendToAHigherPlaneOfExistence]]. Was it a fitting end to Darren's saga or a cheap cop-out that renders the reader's investment in the series completely pointless?

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* Broken Base: BrokenBase: The ending of the series which involves [[spoiler:Darren pulls a ResetButton by going back in time as a reconstructed Little Person and scaring away his younger self so that the events of the series never happen in that timeline, as the Darren who experienced those events gets to AscendToAHigherPlaneOfExistence]]. Was it a fitting end to Darren's saga or a cheap cop-out that renders the reader's investment in the series completely pointless?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* Broken Base: The ending of the series which involves [[spoiler:Darren pulls a ResetButton by going back in time as a reconstructed Little Person and scaring away his younger self so that the events of the series never happen in that timeline, as the Darren who experienced those events gets to AscendToAHigherPlaneOfExistence]]. Was it a fitting end to Darren's saga or a cheap cop-out that renders the reader's investment in the series completely pointless?
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Renamed trope


* FandomBerserkButton: Calling it an 'English' series is bound to set off a few fans. Author Darren Shan is Anglo-Irish and uses some English slang terms in his writing (for example saying 'trainers' instead of the Irish 'runners'), so there is some merit to this. But the books were written and published in Ireland.

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* FandomBerserkButton: FandomEnragingMisconception: Calling it an 'English' series is bound to set off a few fans. Author Darren Shan is Anglo-Irish and uses some English slang terms in his writing (for example saying 'trainers' instead of the Irish 'runners'), so there is some merit to this. But the books were written and published in Ireland.
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Britain contains Ireland, England and Scotland, so calling it a British series is accurate; it's just not an ENGLISH one.


* FandomBerserkButton: Calling it a 'British' series is bound to set off a few fans. Author Darren Shan is Anglo-Irish and uses some English slang terms in his writing (for example saying 'trainers' instead of the Irish 'runners'), so there is some merit to this. But the books were written and published in Ireland.

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* FandomBerserkButton: Calling it a 'British' an 'English' series is bound to set off a few fans. Author Darren Shan is Anglo-Irish and uses some English slang terms in his writing (for example saying 'trainers' instead of the Irish 'runners'), so there is some merit to this. But the books were written and published in Ireland.
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Redirect to a Just For Fun. Just For Fun isn't YMMV.


* CounterpartComparison: Steve and Porky from ''VideoGame/EarthBound'' are both the [[spoiler:hero's EvilFormerFriend, selfish, doesn't go on the adventure for justified reasons only to get mad at the hero for not bringing him along, seemingly helping the BigBad of their free will but might as well be manipulated, both are the hero's foil, are more than creepy around the hero's female family members (Porky hits on Ness' mother to the point she's really disgusted when the game begins and Steve makes Darren's little sister [[TeenPregnancy pregnant]]), and are all around jerkasses that make you wonder why the hero befriended them in the first place]]. Ofcourse the heroes have more than a few similarities too but not to that extent.

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