History YMMV / TheLastOfUsPartII

** While Owen was trying to claim the moral high ground by sparing Ellie and Tommy, saying he refuses to be seen as no better than Joel, he really should have just let his friends kill the both of them on the spot, ethics be damned, because he should know better than anyone how powerful the pull towards hatred and revenge is, considering how his relationship with Abby fell apart. If you are going to be punished for doing something wrong, you might as well do something worse so you can find some benefits from it.

** If you're gonna murder someone, make sure to kill all the witnesses. Especially when your intended victim has loved ones who won't take kindly to their death ''and know your identity and where you live''.

** If you're gonna murder someone, make sure to kill all the witnesses. Especially when your intended victim has loved ones who won't take kindly to their death ''and know your identity''.

** While Owen was trying to claim the moral high ground by sparing Ellie, saying he refuses to be as bad as Joel, he really should have just killed Ellie on the spot, ethics be damned because he should know better than anyone that she'll just follow the same cycle of revenge as them. If you are going to be punished for doing something wrong, you might as well do something worse so you can find some benefits from it.

** If you're gonna murder someone, make sure you kill all the witnesses. Especially when your victim has loved ones who won't take kindly to their death and they know your identity.

*** She was portrayed as having undergone redeeming CharacterDevelopment after [[spoiler:brutally murdering Joel]] as revenge for his killing of her father, realizing [[VengeanceFeelsEmpty it wasn't worth it]] and thus deservedly gets better off than [[TragicHero Ellie who would remain consumed with revenge]] [[spoiler:until the ending]]. This rang hollow to many due to Abby's continued cruelties such as gleefully attempting to kill [[spoiler:Dina after learning she was pregnant stopping only because [[MoralityChain Lev]] told her to while Ellie [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone is guilt ridden]] after realizing Mel who she killed was pregnant and her other actions and ultimately struggled and chose to break the CycleOfRevenge unlike Abby]]. Abby's karma of losing her friends [[spoiler:and pet dog]] to Ellie's RoaringRampageOfRevenge was seen by many instead as everyone but Abby suffering for it. To make matters worse, [[spoiler:her father's death was partially her fault-he was initially hesitant about performing the operation on Ellie, but she talked him into it-but that's never addressed anywhere.]][[note]] After playing the game, Abby's voice actress Creator/LauraBailey [[https://www.gameinformer.com/interview/2020/12/26/looking-back-with-laura-bailey thinks that Abby was ''intentionally'' unsympathetic]]. Her exact words being "You're not supposed to [like her]". [[/note]] %%Entry approved at https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=15194292110A03429900&page=18#comment-439 Don't edit without approval.%%

** [[BaseBreakingCharacter Abby is an infamously divisive character]], but her most controversial moment in the story can actually be likened to Joel in the first game. Much like Abby, Joel commits an amoral action for a loved one, but unlike Abby, Joel is actively loved by most of the series' fans. There's a few reasons to explain this, with several of them being described under UnintentionallyUnsympathetic, but one of the biggest is timing. Joel's most evil action occurs near the very end of the first game. By that point, players have spent a whole game with him, learning to like and sympathize with the old AntiHero, [[FreudianExcuse as well as understanding why he made that decision in the first place]]. In Abby's case, her most unsympathetic deed happens close to the very beginning. By that point, players barely know her, [[AnotherSideAnotherStory seeing none of the positive aspects of her character that would appear later on]]. Not to mention, while [[spoiler:Joel remained pragmatic and quickly dispatched of the doctor who would have cut Ellie open (as well as not being very happy about his decision), Abby was [[ColdBloodedTorture far more brutal]], dragging out her execution of Joel and starting Ellie's desire for revenge.]] While feelings on a character can change, it's much easier for fans to like a morally dubious character more when their most positive traits are showcased before their most negative ones rather than the other way around.
*** Similarly, in the first game Joel's time post-outbreak is alluded to be decidedly bloody, and it's all but stated he did things on the level of [[spoiler:his own brutal death at Abby's hands]][[note]] Justifying to Tommy at one point by saying it was for "survival", and implying to Ellie that he was not dissimilar to a Hunter by his comment of "being on both sides" of an ambush.[[/note]], in her case it's just explicitly shown rather than hinted at like Joel. Discussed early in the game when Dina asks if there is a possibility that Joel did things that Ellie doesn't know about, the latter responds with an almost humorously casual "high".

** Emily Swallow playing the Seraphite cultist that tries to cut open Abby in the Paris Games Week 2017 trailer is this after the release of ''Series/TheMandalorian'', where she plays the Armorer, the leader of a cult-like group of surviving Mandalorians. Not to mention a tool hammer is prominently weaponized in the trailer, which brings to mind the Armorer's fight scene at the end of Season 1.
*** The connection becomes even funnier when it was announced that Pedro Pascal, the titular Mandalorian himself, would play Joel in the ''Last of Us'' series for HBO.

** Abby was portrayed as having undergone redeeming CharacterDevelopment after [[spoiler:brutally murdering Joel]] as revenge for his killing of her father, realizing [[VengeanceFeelsEmpty it wasn't worth it]] and thus deservedly gets better off than [[TragicHero Ellie who would remain consumed with revenge]] [[spoiler:until the ending]]. This rang hollow to many due to Abby's continued cruelties such as gleefully attempting to kill [[spoiler:Dina after learning she was pregnant stopping only because [[MoralityChain Lev]] told her to while Ellie [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone is guilt ridden]] after realizing Mel who she killed was pregnant and her other actions and ultimately struggled and chose to break the CycleOfRevenge unlike Abby]]. Abby's karma of losing her friends [[spoiler:and pet dog]] to Ellie's RoaringRampageOfRevenge was seen by many instead as everyone but Abby suffering for it. To make matters worse, [[spoiler:her father's death was partially her fault-he was initially hesitant about performing the operation on Ellie, but she talked him into it-but that's never addressed anywhere.]][[note]] After playing the game, Abby's voice actress Creator/LauraBailey [[https://www.gameinformer.com/interview/2020/12/26/looking-back-with-laura-bailey thinks that Abby was ''intentionally'' unsympathetic]]. Her exact words being "You're not supposed to [like her]". [[/note]] %%Entry approved at https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=15194292110A03429900&page=18#comment-439 Don't edit without approval.%%
*** Others have said they dislike how Abby [[spoiler:killed Joel]] rather than the deed itself. Specifically, [[spoiler:Abby drags her friends' miles and miles away from their home, doesn't turn back when one of them turns out to be pregnant, then they near die to the clickers, only to be rescued by Joel and Tommy, then murder Joel anyway while dragging it out as long as while they pin down his adopted daughter and ignore her as she begs them to stop then very nearly murder her too]]. This made people who would have otherwise understood why Abby did what she did view her as far too cruel and selfish.

** Abby's father Jerry is presented as a kind and caring man who was faced with a difficult decision to [[spoiler: sacrifice Ellie to acquire the cure]], and was cruelly killed by [[spoiler: Joel, who objected to the plan]], thus giving Abby a seemingly justifiable reason to [[spoiler: want to kill Joel]]. However, some felt that Jerry was very deserving in [[spoiler: being killed by Joel for pushing to cut open a child who had no idea that she was going to die for the cure ([[AllForNothing if it was successful at all]]), while ignoring Marlene's question about if he would perform the procedure had it been ''his'' daughter's life on the line, and not a random child. Not to mention in the scene where Joel kills Jerry, Jerry grabbed a scalpel and promised not let Joel take Ellie, the implication very clearly being that he'll try to kill Joel if Joel tries to take Ellie, so it's not as if he didn't threaten Joel first]].

** By far the biggest criticism of the story overall is how unflinchingly dark it is. The first game was also incredibly dark, with Joel and Ellie going through a lot of strife to get to the Fireflies, only for Joel to kill them all to save Ellie from being killed by them for a slim chance to find a vaccine, rendering the entire journey to find them AllForNothing. The reason it wasn't much of a problem then was because despite the darkness, there was still enough hope that players were still able to get invested in the world and its characters without getting turned off by it, with Joel and Ellie's relationship playing a big part in that. This game, however, was criticized for being [[DarkerAndEdgier much]] [[BloodierAndGorier darker]] while also lacking the same ray of hope that the first game and its BittersweetEnding gave off. Through the game, [[spoiler:Ellie is consumed by hatred, and countless people die in her ensuing RoaringRampageOfRevenge. Abby, the character responsible for Joel's death, is a protagonist and playable for half of the game and her sections are nearly as dark as Ellie's. In the end, both women have their lives ruined- Abby's hard-fought organization of the WLF collapses and all her companions save Lev die at Ellie's hands, while Ellie loses her friend Jesse and completely shatters her relationship with Dinah leaving her with nothing, not even the ability to play guitar.]] As a result, the game's story was [[TooBleakStoppedCaring criticized]] for its incredibly dark narrative rather than [[TrueArtIsAngsty praised]] for it like the first game.

* BrokenBase: This game is extremely controversial for many reasons. It's quite telling that even ThatOtherWiki notes that "discourse surrounding the game became adversarial".

* BrokenBase: This game is extremely controversial for many reasons.

** The attempted [[spoiler:heartbreak of Ellie being unable to play guitar with segments of her fingers gone loses a lot of its effectiveness if one knows of Music/DjangoReinhardt who, to quote this very wiki, "is frequently cited as one of the greatest guitarists who ever lived" despite also being disabled in his ring and pinky finger.]]

** Abby's friend is named Mei. [[WesternAnimation/TurningRed Wait a minute...]]

* TooBleakStoppedCaring: The main reason for the story’s divisiveness. This is a '''much''' more violent and depressing game than its predecessor, which was already pretty dark. [[spoiler:Joel's brutal death]] early on in the game, in particular, is a point where some players stopped caring about what happens in the story, and it doesn't get better from there. In addition to the dark story, observations of the environments and flavor text show that the state of the world appears to be getting worse instead of better. All hope of a cure or vaccine is dead because Joel killed apparently the last brain surgeon in the previous game. Unlike most Zombies in fiction, Infected actually get stronger over time by mutating in tougher and deadlier forms, and every attempt at rebuilding civilization is thwarted by either the Infected, warfare or internal strife. Even many critics who gave an overall favourable review of the game agreed that it has an extremely nihilistic and unforgivably bleak story, for better or for worse. There's a reason that all but 4 of [[https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/the-last-of-us-part-ii/user-reviews the most helpful user reviews on the first page of metacritic]] are negative.

** The possibility and fallout of Ellie discovering the truth of what Joel did to the Fireflies could have filled up an entire game, and the first game's SequelHook certainly seemed to be setting it up that way. However, what instead happened was [[spoiler:Ellie finds out the truth in a flashback, after Joel has already died in the present. However, the "only" consequence that happens is that Ellie doesn't talk to Joel for two years. And at the end of the game, we find out in another flashback that Ellie eventually considered forgiving Joel for lying to her]]. Some players left with the impression that plot thread was completely wasted in favour of Abby's revenge story.
** Thorgi's Arcade brings up an interesting point in his review: In the middle of Ellie's section of the story, you get jumped by some [=WLF=] deserters, which you can learn of through some notes before the encounter. So the situation could've been handled rather peacefully if Ellie just ''talked'' to them, even giving the player the option to do so. Not only would this definitely have allowed Ellie a valuable asset in learning what she's dealing with, but she could understand how life under the [=WLF=] isn't all roses for some and give her some internal conflict going forward in trying to seek Abby, that the [=WLF=] are just people surviving but under questionable methods. Especially since this is ''before'' Abby's campaign, which could've drawn some parallels of the deserters point of view from their own words to Abby's when we take control of her. Plus show that not ''everyone'' Ellie encounters in Seattle is so quick to kill just because.

** Abby's father Jerry is presented as a kind and caring man who was faced with a difficult decision to [[spoiler: sacrifice Ellie to acquire the cure]], and was cruelly killed by [[spoiler: Joel, who objected to the plan]], thus giving Abby a seemingly justifiable reason to [[spoiler: want to kill Joel]]. However, some felt that Jerry was very deserving in [[spoiler: being killed by Joel for pushing to cut open a child who had no idea that she was going to die for the cure ([[AllForNothing if it was successful at all]]), while ignoring Marlene's question about if he would perform the procedure had it been ''his'' daughter's life on the line, and not a random child.]]

* SugarWiki/VisualEffectsOfAwesome: The graphics are pretty much the one thing everybody agrees looks absolutely incredible. The first game already boasted fairly high quality graphics, but the sequel ups the ante by using a more enhanced engine that allows for greater photo-realism. Highlights include more atmospheric lighting, significant attention to detail on the character models and environments, and smoother real-time movements.

** The last stretch of the game sees [[spoiler:Ellie reaching Santa Barbara and going through ''five'' enemy sequences, encountering every enemy type in the game except Bloaters and the Rat King boss. You get a sub-machine gun with a silencer to help you, but it's still a long and arduous affair, and the human areas especially have tons of enemies to get through and sneak by, exasperating the EndingFatigue players usually feel by the time they get to this part.]]

** The simple fact that Stalkers appear much more often in this game than they did in the first one, coupled with their frequent pairing with other DemonicSpiders like the dreaded Shamblers, can make any mid-to-late game encounter with infected an exercise in keeping your adrenaline level under control.

** The incredibly butch BossInMooksClothing Seraphite enemy was quickly dubbed Miss. Trunchbull, owing to the NPC's hilariously close resemblance to Pam Ferris' portrayal of the character in ''Film/{{Matilda}}''.

* EndingFatigue: After what could have been the climax, where [[spoiler:Ellie and Abby battle each other in Seattle]] and Abby's motivations are finally revealed, the game continues for another hour or so as it starts a completely new story arc where [[spoiler:Ellie tries to live a life in peace but can't so she decides to chase after Abby ''again''. Leading into a section where Ellie track Abby all the way to Santa Barbara and has to storm her way through a scavenger stronghold to get to her.]]

** Stalkers continue their DemonicSpider reputation in this game; they're still annoyingly durable and fast, not to mention smart and quiet. In this game, however, there are far more encounters with them than the two that were in the first game (and one sequence in ''Left Behind''). As an added bonus, they're even more difficult to detect with listen mode, so they will detect ''you'' in an area before you can detect them, and not trigger the "alert" music sting when you've been spotted. And that's when they're not ''bursting out of the walls'' as they do in a later chapter, alerting every other enemy in the area once they get the jump on you.

* EndingFatigue: After what could have been the climax, where [[spoiler:Ellie and Abby battle each other in Seattle]] and Abby's motivations are finally revealed, the game continues for another hour or so as it starts completely new story arc where [[spoiler:Ellie tries to live a life in peace but can't so she decides to chase after Abby ''again''. Leading into a section where Ellie track Abby all the way to Santa Barbara and has to storm her way through a scavenger stronghold to get to her.]]

* DontShootTheMessage: Even many people who agreed with the game’s anti-violence and anti-revenge messages were critical of the game’s handling of things like [[spoiler: Joel’s death and Ellie choosing to spare Abby at the end of the game]] due to feeling that they were contrived and poorly written

* AccidentalAesop: [[spoiler: If you're gonna murder someone, make sure you kill all the witnesses. Especially when your victim has loved ones who won't take kindly to their death and they know your identity.]]

** Laura Bailey has been sent death threats for how the character of Abby was written (and a large portion of critics still believe her to be trans due to incorrect reporting when the game plot was first leaked). This is despite her only being the voice actor.

** Laura Bailey has been sent death threats for how the character of Abby was written. This is despite her only being the voice actor.

* UnderusedGameplayMechanic: Downtown Seattle teases the notion of the game having WideOpenSandbox hub levels, with you exploring a vast area on horseback with numerous optional areas to explore and a slightly non-linear objective. This goes out the window as soon as you're done, and while the levels do have more optional side areas to explore than the first game, the levels are still largely linear.

** [[spoiler:As evidenced by him letting his guard down constantly and even giving out his name (although it was Tommy who gave their names first) unlike the cautious and ProperlyParanoid man he was in previous game, Joel's overall behavior was also extremely debated by fans. For defenders, they claim that since Joel lived in Jackson for four years, it was only natural that his survival instinct had begun to dull. Fans believed that living in Jackson for four years doesn't eliminate the fact that Joel is an experienced survivor and he wouldn't have let total strangers know so much about him or his brother and get the drop on him so easily. Even further, the complete lack of foreshadowing of Joel losing his survival edge makes the assertion feel forced.]]