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** MJ's husband Paul is near-univerally despised as a cheap obstacle between her and Peter without much personality. It doesn't help that during the entirety of the Dead Language story arc, he's presented as being far more competent than Peter, who loses basically every fight he gets into while having to be saved by Paul. If one also pays attention to what he's saying, he basically admits with helping Rabin with his work and thus is responsible for the entire fiasco.

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** MJ's husband Paul is near-univerally despised as a cheap obstacle between her and Peter without much personality. It doesn't help that during the entirety of the Dead Language story arc, he's presented as being far more competent than Peter, who loses basically every fight he gets into while having to be saved by Paul. If one also pays attention to what he's saying, he basically admits with to helping Rabin with his work and thus is responsible for the entire fiasco.
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** MJ's husband Paul is near-univerally despised as a cheap obstacle between her and Peter without much personality. It doesn't help that during the entirety of the Dead Language story arc, he's presented as being far more competent than Peter, who loses basically every fight he gets into while having to be saved by Paul.

to:

** MJ's husband Paul is near-univerally despised as a cheap obstacle between her and Peter without much personality. It doesn't help that during the entirety of the Dead Language story arc, he's presented as being far more competent than Peter, who loses basically every fight he gets into while having to be saved by Paul. If one also pays attention to what he's saying, he basically admits with helping Rabin with his work and thus is responsible for the entire fiasco.
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None


* BrokenBase: There's some divide on the art by John Romita Jr. Some find it to be good, if not the best aspect in an otherwise highly controversial run, while others dislike it, namely due to the faces, which can fall straight into the UncannyValley at times.

to:

* BrokenBase: There's some divide on the art by John Romita Jr. Some find it to be good, if not the best aspect in an otherwise highly controversial run, while others dislike it, namely due to the faces, which can fall straight into the UncannyValley UnintentionalUncannyValley at times.
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Removing some of the bashing.


* BrokenBase: Most ''Spider-Man'' fans agree that this run is godawful and are clamoring for it to end, but there's some divide on the art by John Romita Jr. Some say that it's good despite the story, while others claim that inexpressive faces that fall straight into the UncannyValley at times, with some even comparing unfavorably it to the early days of ''Webcomic/CtrlAltDel'', with the infamously stiff [="B^U"=] faces characters had in the latter work.

to:

* BrokenBase: Most ''Spider-Man'' fans agree that this run is godawful and are clamoring for it to end, but there's There's some divide on the art by John Romita Jr. Some say that it's good despite find it to be good, if not the story, best aspect in an otherwise highly controversial run, while others claim that inexpressive faces that dislike it, namely due to the faces, which can fall straight into the UncannyValley at times, with some even comparing unfavorably it to the early days of ''Webcomic/CtrlAltDel'', with the infamously stiff [="B^U"=] faces characters had in the latter work.times.
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Audiences hating the run isn't enough for it to qualify as Audience Alienating Premise. It requires objective proof that the work failed to attract audiences (poor sales, etc).


* AudienceAlienatingPremise: Peter and MJ have broken up ''yet again'' after spending almost four years of real-life time together, MJ is with a completely new character with no concrete connection to the rest of the events, Pete is working for a currently-reformed Norman and dating Felicia... by the fourth issue, people were praying that the events of this run would be RetGone by the time the next one picked up.
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** MJ's husband Paul is near-univerally despised as a cheap obstacle between her and Peter without much personality.

to:

** MJ's husband Paul is near-univerally despised as a cheap obstacle between her and Peter without much personality. It doesn't help that during the entirety of the Dead Language story arc, he's presented as being far more competent than Peter, who loses basically every fight he gets into while having to be saved by Paul.
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* AssPull: TheReveal in #25 that [[spoiler: Paul and MJ's kids are adoptive and ''just so happen to look like them''.]] People immediately speculated that this was Marvel's attempt at an AuthorsSavingThrow because of the sheer amount of negative reception the plotline has been getting.

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* AssPull: TheReveal in #25 that [[spoiler: Paul and MJ's kids are adoptive and ''just so happen to look like them''.]] them'']]. People immediately speculated that this was Marvel's attempt at an AuthorsSavingThrow because of the sheer amount of negative reception the plotline has been getting.
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* AssPull: TheReveal in #25 that [[spoiler: Paul and MJ's kids are adoptive and ''just so happen to look like them''.]]

to:

* AssPull: TheReveal in #25 that [[spoiler: Paul and MJ's kids are adoptive and ''just so happen to look like them''.]]]] People immediately speculated that this was Marvel's attempt at an AuthorsSavingThrow because of the sheer amount of negative reception the plotline has been getting.

Added: 119

Removed: 258

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Deleting Fridge Logic because the new issue reveals that the kids are adoptive, not biological.


* AssPull: TheReveal in #25 that [[spoiler: Paul and MJ's kids are adoptive and ''just so happen to look like them''.]]



* FridgeLogic:
** [[spoiler: Time in comic books is weird, but neither MJ or Paul look to have aged all that much by the time they leave the pocket dimension. With that said, MJ's kids are at ''least'' four or five by the time they're brought into reality.]]
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** Peter desperately begging Norman Osborn to save him from...the Vulture...a villain Peter has defeated numerous times without assistance... In case you're wondering, no, Vulture didn't get any special power-up that's letting him beat Peter, he's just regular old Vulture.

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** Peter desperately begging Norman Osborn to save him from...from the Vulture...Vulture, a villain Peter has defeated numerous times without assistance...assistance. In case you're wondering, no, Vulture didn't get any special power-up that's letting him beat Peter, he's just regular old Vulture.
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MJ's children were adopted, revealed in ASM#25


** MJ gets this too with the reveal that [[spoiler:her children with Paul aren't adoptive, but biological, as a result of her being in an alternate dimension working on YearInsideHourOutside rules. She's caught flack for not remaining faithful to Peter, regardless of how much time has passed.]]
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* EightDeadlyWords: By the third issue, people were sick of the dynamic of Peter and MJ being split up ''yet again'', and the mystery box style storytelling. By the 900th issue special, several people swore off even Hate Reading the book as a result of [[spoiler:Peter and Felicia becoming an OfficialCouple]]. As of writing, most Spidey fans are just exasperated because they know that when this run ends, Peter and MJ will get back together ''eventually'', Paul will likely be killed off or PutOnABus with his and MJ's kids, and Norman is going to go back to being the Green Goblin, because the StatusQuoIsGod in comics, and it's hard to care about such a drastic shake-up when the majority of it will be retconned or rewritten within the first year of the subsequent run. Not helping matters is that later into the run, Creator/DanSlott, a controversial ''Spider-Man'' writer in his own right, has his own Spider-Man book is ''ComicBook/SpiderMan2022'', which has gotten much better reception, despite the plot being another ''Spider-Verse'' retread. Also not helping matters is the fact that ''WesternAnimation/SpiderManAcrossTheSpiderverse'' is releasing in the middle of this run, featuring a version of Pete who not only is still together with MJ, but ''is in a healthy enough relationship to have a daughter with her''.

to:

* EightDeadlyWords: By the third issue, people were sick of the dynamic of Peter and MJ being split up ''yet again'', and the mystery box style storytelling. By the 900th issue special, several people swore off even Hate Reading the book as a result of [[spoiler:Peter and Felicia becoming an OfficialCouple]]. As of writing, most Spidey fans are just exasperated because they know that when this run ends, Peter and MJ will get back together ''eventually'', Paul will likely be killed off or PutOnABus with his and MJ's kids, and Norman is going to go back to being the Green Goblin, because the StatusQuoIsGod in comics, and it's hard to care about such a drastic shake-up when the majority of it will be retconned or rewritten within the first year of the subsequent run. Not helping matters is that later into the run, Creator/DanSlott, a controversial ''Spider-Man'' writer in his own right, has his own Spider-Man book is ''ComicBook/SpiderMan2022'', which has gotten much better reception, despite the plot being another ''Spider-Verse'' retread. Also not helping matters is the fact that ''WesternAnimation/SpiderManAcrossTheSpiderverse'' ''WesternAnimation/SpiderManAcrossTheSpiderVerse'' is releasing in the middle of this run, featuring a version of Pete who not only is still together with MJ, but ''is in a healthy enough relationship to have a daughter with her''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* EightDeadlyWords: By the third issue, people were sick of the dynamic of Peter and MJ being split up ''yet again'', and the mystery box style storytelling. By the 900th issue special, several people swore off even Hate Reading the book as a result of [[spoiler:Peter and Felicia becoming an OfficialCouple]]. As of writing, most Spidey fans are just exasperated because they know that when this run ends, Peter and MJ will get back together ''eventually'', Paul will likely be killed off or PutOnABus with his and MJ's kids, and Norman is going to go back to being the Green Goblin, because the StatusQuoIsGod in comics, and it's hard to care about such a drastic shake-up when the majority of it will be retconned or rewritten within the first year of the subsequent run. Not helping matters is that later into the run, Creator/DanSlott, a controversial ''Spider-Man'' writer in his own right, has his own Spider-Man book is ''ComicBook/SpiderMan2022'', which has gotten much better reception, despite the plot being another ''Spider-Verse'' retread. Also not helping matters is the fact that ''WesternAnimation/Spider-ManAcrossTheSpiderverse'' is releasing in the middle of this run, featuring a version of Pete who not only is still together with MJ, but ''is in a healthy enough relationship to have a daughter with her''.

to:

* EightDeadlyWords: By the third issue, people were sick of the dynamic of Peter and MJ being split up ''yet again'', and the mystery box style storytelling. By the 900th issue special, several people swore off even Hate Reading the book as a result of [[spoiler:Peter and Felicia becoming an OfficialCouple]]. As of writing, most Spidey fans are just exasperated because they know that when this run ends, Peter and MJ will get back together ''eventually'', Paul will likely be killed off or PutOnABus with his and MJ's kids, and Norman is going to go back to being the Green Goblin, because the StatusQuoIsGod in comics, and it's hard to care about such a drastic shake-up when the majority of it will be retconned or rewritten within the first year of the subsequent run. Not helping matters is that later into the run, Creator/DanSlott, a controversial ''Spider-Man'' writer in his own right, has his own Spider-Man book is ''ComicBook/SpiderMan2022'', which has gotten much better reception, despite the plot being another ''Spider-Verse'' retread. Also not helping matters is the fact that ''WesternAnimation/Spider-ManAcrossTheSpiderverse'' ''WesternAnimation/SpiderManAcrossTheSpiderverse'' is releasing in the middle of this run, featuring a version of Pete who not only is still together with MJ, but ''is in a healthy enough relationship to have a daughter with her''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* EightDeadlyWords: By the third issue, people were sick of the dynamic of Peter and MJ being split up ''yet again'', and the mystery box style storytelling. By the 900th issue special, several people swore off even Hate Reading the book as a result of [[spoiler:Peter and Felicia becoming an OfficialCouple]]. As of writing, most Spidey fans are just exasperated because they know that when this run ends, Peter and MJ will get back together ''eventually'', Paul will likely be killed off or PutOnABus with his and MJ's kids, and Norman is going to go back to being the Green Goblin, because the StatusQuoIsGod in comics, and it's hard to care about such a drastic shake-up when the majority of it will be retconned or rewritten within the first year of the subsequent run. Not helping matters is that later into the run, Creator/DanSlott, a controversial ''Spider-Man'' writer in his own right, has his own Spider-Man book is ''ComicBook/SpiderMan2022'', which has gotten much better reception, despite the plot being another ''Spider-Verse'' retread. Also not helping matters is the fact that WesternAnimation/SpiderManACrossTheSpiderverse is releasing in the middle of this run, featuring a version of Pete who not only is still together with MJ, but ''is in a healthy enough relationship to have a daughter with her''.

to:

* EightDeadlyWords: By the third issue, people were sick of the dynamic of Peter and MJ being split up ''yet again'', and the mystery box style storytelling. By the 900th issue special, several people swore off even Hate Reading the book as a result of [[spoiler:Peter and Felicia becoming an OfficialCouple]]. As of writing, most Spidey fans are just exasperated because they know that when this run ends, Peter and MJ will get back together ''eventually'', Paul will likely be killed off or PutOnABus with his and MJ's kids, and Norman is going to go back to being the Green Goblin, because the StatusQuoIsGod in comics, and it's hard to care about such a drastic shake-up when the majority of it will be retconned or rewritten within the first year of the subsequent run. Not helping matters is that later into the run, Creator/DanSlott, a controversial ''Spider-Man'' writer in his own right, has his own Spider-Man book is ''ComicBook/SpiderMan2022'', which has gotten much better reception, despite the plot being another ''Spider-Verse'' retread. Also not helping matters is the fact that WesternAnimation/SpiderManACrossTheSpiderverse ''WesternAnimation/Spider-ManAcrossTheSpiderverse'' is releasing in the middle of this run, featuring a version of Pete who not only is still together with MJ, but ''is in a healthy enough relationship to have a daughter with her''.

Added: 416

Changed: 269

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None


* AudienceAlienatingPremise: Peter and MJ have broken up ''yet again'' after spending almost four years of real-life time together, MJ is with a completely new character with no concrete connection to the rest of the events, Pete is working for a currently-reformed Norman and dating Felicia... by the fourth issue, people were praying that the events of this run would be RetGone by the time the next one picked up.



* EightDeadlyWords: By the third issue, people were sick of the dynamic of Peter and MJ being split up ''yet again'', and the mystery box style storytelling. By the 900th issue special, several people swore off even Hate Reading the book as a result of [[spoiler:Peter and Felicia becoming an OfficialCouple]]. As of writing, most Spidey fans are just exasperated because they know that when this run ends, Peter and MJ will get back together ''eventually'', Paul will likely be killed off or PutOnABus with his and MJ's kids, and Norman is going to go back to being the Green Goblin, because the StatusQuoIsGod in comics, and it's hard to care about such a drastic shake-up when the majority of it will be retconned or rewritten within the first year of the subsequent run. Not helping matters is that later into the run, Creator/DanSlott, a controversial ''Spider-Man'' writer in his own right, has his own Spider-Man book is ''ComicBook/SpiderMan2022'', which has gotten much better reception, despite the plot being another ''Spider-Verse'' retread.

to:

* EightDeadlyWords: By the third issue, people were sick of the dynamic of Peter and MJ being split up ''yet again'', and the mystery box style storytelling. By the 900th issue special, several people swore off even Hate Reading the book as a result of [[spoiler:Peter and Felicia becoming an OfficialCouple]]. As of writing, most Spidey fans are just exasperated because they know that when this run ends, Peter and MJ will get back together ''eventually'', Paul will likely be killed off or PutOnABus with his and MJ's kids, and Norman is going to go back to being the Green Goblin, because the StatusQuoIsGod in comics, and it's hard to care about such a drastic shake-up when the majority of it will be retconned or rewritten within the first year of the subsequent run. Not helping matters is that later into the run, Creator/DanSlott, a controversial ''Spider-Man'' writer in his own right, has his own Spider-Man book is ''ComicBook/SpiderMan2022'', which has gotten much better reception, despite the plot being another ''Spider-Verse'' retread. Also not helping matters is the fact that WesternAnimation/SpiderManACrossTheSpiderverse is releasing in the middle of this run, featuring a version of Pete who not only is still together with MJ, but ''is in a healthy enough relationship to have a daughter with her''.
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None

Added DiffLines:

* EpilepticTrees: The nature of Paul was hotly debated before it was revealed that [[spoiler:he's just some guy who got sucked into an alternate dimension where time passes faster within than without]]. Theories have included him being Mephisto in human form, a random villain in disguise, or even an alternate-universe version of Pete who never got spider-powers, with the last one being justified with ReligiousAndMythologicalThemeNaming (''Peter'' Parker, ''Paul'', and ''Mary''-Jane Watson).
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** [[spoiler: Time in comic books is weird, but neither MJ or Paul look to have aged all that much by the time they leave the pocket dimension. With that said, MJ's kids are at ''least'' four or five by the time they're brought into reality.]

to:

** [[spoiler: Time in comic books is weird, but neither MJ or Paul look to have aged all that much by the time they leave the pocket dimension. With that said, MJ's kids are at ''least'' four or five by the time they're brought into reality.]]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* BrokenBase: Most ''Spider-Man'' fans agree that this run is godawful and are clamoring for it to end, but there's some divide on the art by John Romita Jr. Some say that it's good despite the story, while others claim that inexpressive faces that fall straight into the UncannyValley at times, with some even comparing unfavorably it to the early days of ''Webcomic/CtrlAltDel'', with the infamously stiff [="B^U"=] faces characters had in the latter work.


Added DiffLines:

* EightDeadlyWords: By the third issue, people were sick of the dynamic of Peter and MJ being split up ''yet again'', and the mystery box style storytelling. By the 900th issue special, several people swore off even Hate Reading the book as a result of [[spoiler:Peter and Felicia becoming an OfficialCouple]]. As of writing, most Spidey fans are just exasperated because they know that when this run ends, Peter and MJ will get back together ''eventually'', Paul will likely be killed off or PutOnABus with his and MJ's kids, and Norman is going to go back to being the Green Goblin, because the StatusQuoIsGod in comics, and it's hard to care about such a drastic shake-up when the majority of it will be retconned or rewritten within the first year of the subsequent run. Not helping matters is that later into the run, Creator/DanSlott, a controversial ''Spider-Man'' writer in his own right, has his own Spider-Man book is ''ComicBook/SpiderMan2022'', which has gotten much better reception, despite the plot being another ''Spider-Verse'' retread.
* FridgeLogic:
** [[spoiler: Time in comic books is weird, but neither MJ or Paul look to have aged all that much by the time they leave the pocket dimension. With that said, MJ's kids are at ''least'' four or five by the time they're brought into reality.]

Added: 411

Changed: 113

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* TheScrappy: MJ's husband Paul is near-univerally despised as a cheap obstacle between her and Peter without much personality.

to:

* TheScrappy: TheScrappy:
**
MJ's husband Paul is near-univerally despised as a cheap obstacle between her and Peter without much personality.personality.
** MJ gets this too with the reveal that [[spoiler:her children with Paul aren't adoptive, but biological, as a result of her being in an alternate dimension working on YearInsideHourOutside rules. She's caught flack for not remaining faithful to Peter, regardless of how much time has passed.]]
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None

Added DiffLines:

* TheScrappy: MJ's husband Paul is near-univerally despised as a cheap obstacle between her and Peter without much personality.
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None


* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Has Mary Jane really moved on from Peter in light of issues #21-25 [[spoiler: reveal that her and Paul's relationship was the result of being trapped together in an alternate dimension [[YearOutsideHourInside where time moved faster and so spent years there despite only hours-days passed for Peter.]] When confronted about if [=MJ=] really loved Paul enough to completely cut Peter out of her life, her response was that it was a matter of responsibility rather than love.]]

to:

* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Has Mary Jane really moved on from Peter in light of issues #21-25 [[spoiler: reveal that her and Paul's relationship was the result of being trapped together in an alternate dimension [[YearOutsideHourInside where time moved faster and so spent years there despite only hours-days passed for Peter.]] When confronted about if [=MJ=] really loved Paul enough to completely cut Peter out of her life, her response was that it was a matter of responsibility rather than love.]] So it is really her remaining loyal to the father of her children whom she loves or is she simply trying to be "responsible" by maintain a stable home for her children?]]
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None

Added DiffLines:

* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Has Mary Jane really moved on from Peter in light of issues #21-25 [[spoiler: reveal that her and Paul's relationship was the result of being trapped together in an alternate dimension [[YearOutsideHourInside where time moved faster and so spent years there despite only hours-days passed for Peter.]] When confronted about if [=MJ=] really loved Paul enough to completely cut Peter out of her life, her response was that it was a matter of responsibility rather than love.]]
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* BadassDecay: In this run, Spider-Man hasn't suffered this all across the board but is decidedly less effective of a hero now at fighting different members of his RoguesGallery and whether or not those defeats are justifiable are up for debate. He gets bear-hugged into unconsciousness by Tombstone in the confines of an enclosed room despite having solidly defeated Tombstone multiple times in the past. Against an enraged Vulture, Peter is nearly killed and has to beg Norman Osborn for aid in the form of a new suit and glider despite having defeated an angry, bloodlusted Vulture on his own before in stories like ''Spider-Man: Feral''. And against two Hobgoblins, Spider-Man is nearly killed and has to rely on Norman coming in ''again'' to save the day in a brand new suit.
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** The fact that one of the most threatening villains in the book is named ''SCRIBBLE MAN'' is too ridiculous to take seriously.
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* Narm:

to:

* Narm: {{Narm}}:
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* Narm:
** Peter desperately begging Norman Osborn to save him from...the Vulture...a villain Peter has defeated numerous times without assistance... In case you're wondering, no, Vulture didn't get any special power-up that's letting him beat Peter, he's just regular old Vulture.
** In issue #21, a flashback shows Peter being attacked by Scribble Man, which ends up looking more like Scribble Man is grabbing Peter's glowing boobs than an actual attack.
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* SignatureScene: A twofer.

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* SignatureScene: A twofer.twofer, both for their sheer negative reception.
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* DieForOurShip:
** Wells has made it no secret he prefers Felicia Hardy over Mary Jane Watson. Guess which relationship gets the most focus with Spider-Man in the first arc with a heavy ship teasing, and which one gets scuttled almost immediately?
** Many readers who are fans of Peter and Mary Jane's relationship are already hoping that Paul, MJ's current boyfriend, would either be killed off or be revealed to be a surprise villain.
* ItsTheSameNowItSucks: Even before the issue released people were already groaning in annoyance that Peter was going back to the status quo of being down on his luck, distant from his family and friends and separated from Mary Jane. That this happened less than a year since the ending of Nick Spencer's run that was dedicated to bringing back together Peter and MJ only made the dislike worse.
* MemeticMutation:
** Paul [[labelnote:Explanation]] The man that Mary Jane seems to have suddenly gotten together with, shafting Peter [[StatusQuoIsGod yet again]]. A lot of people hate him for essentially being the human personification of all the pointless suffering that Peter has faced time and time again, but a lot of people think he's [[ActuallyPrettyFunny hilarious]] for the exact same reason. This, coupled with the fact that he's a genuine NiceGuy has lead to people praising him as a MemeticBadass, either as [[RonTheDeathEater Mephisto in human form]] or a perfect IdealHero who Peter is a pathetic, snivelling UnknownRival to. [[/labelnote]]
** X came back[[labelnote: Explanation]]In the preview of issue #21, MJ flips out as a villain known as The Scribble Man appears before her. Despite the confusion over who this obscure, Brand New Day-era villain was, others made fun of this because of the absurdity of it all, suggesting it’s actually other people.[[/labelnote]]
* MemeticLoser: Zeb Wells' run has cemented Peter Parker's status as this due to how much Peter has been put through the wringer, from his OffscreenBreakup with Mary Jane who ends up dating Paul to him begging Norman Osborn, his former archenemy, to save him from ''the Vulture'' of all people.
* SignatureScene: A twofer.
** The scene at the end of the first issue of MJ greeting Paul and the two kids calling her "Mommy."
** Peter desperately pleading Norman Osborn for help in issue 8 from the Vulture as Peter is afraid the Vulture is going to kill him.
* StrangledByTheRedString:
** Peter and MJ break up off panel, and then Felicia flirts with Peter a few issues later and kisses him an issue after that. Suffice to say, fans noticed how quick this situation was.
** Mary Jane's relationship with Paul was confirmed to be a marriage in the ''recap page'' for the 19th issue, despite it never being mentioned by ''any'' character in the 18 preceding issues, the two issues of the Dark Web tie in, and the two issues of the Mary Jane/Black Cat mini series that came out prior to this issue.
* TaintedByThePreview: From the moment it was revealed that Peter would be separated from Mary Jane (again), people were expressing their outrage and dismay at Marvel's seeming lack of interest in keeping together one of the most popular superhero pairings that had been clamored for a long time.
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: Many fans were upset that Flash's reunion with Peter was in #900 consisted of Peter casually welcoming him back to the world of the living, especially since it was the first time the two interacted since his HeroicSacrifice in ''ComicBook/GoDownSwinging''.
* UnexpectedCharacter: Was anyone really expecting the Digger of all villains to make a return? Especially considering the last time he appeared was close to two decades ago (whose purpose was basically to give Spider-Man a rhyme and reason for being able to defeat/kill Hulk that he has yet to utilize to this day) and didn't really catch on as a villain enough to make any big returns in all this time. Not to mention that his personality wasn't really fleshed out beyond being your typical mobster boss character that's basically indistinguishable from Kingpin, Tombstone, Hammerhead, Mr. Negative, or Silvermane.
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