History YMMV / Suikoden

* MyRealDaddy: Yoshitaka Murayama planned out the whole world of 27 True Runes and was involved heavily in the first 2 games, thus making those games the most beloved, the 3rd, 4th and 5th mainline games had [[ToughActToFollow a lot of difficulties to live up with that]] after the amicable departure of Murayama but still generally more accepted since they're from the same verse. The same can't be said for ''VideoGame/SuikodenTierkreis'' and ''VideoGame/SuikodenWovenWebOfTheCenturies'' (made completely free from Murayama's elements), so people occasionally throw those into FanonDiscontinuity. Generally, Murayama is considered the undisputed 'daddy' of ''Suikoden'' in the same vein of Creator/HideoKojima to ''Franchise/MetalGear'' or Koji Igarashi to ''Franchise/{{Castlevania}}''

* CompleteMonster: [[YMMV/SuikodenI Neclord]] (also in the second game); [[YMMV/SuikodenII Luca Blight]]; [[YMMV/SuikodenV Childerich]]. See those pages for details.

* FanonDiscontinuity: Some fans look down on ''VideoGame/SuikodenTierkreis'' and ''[[VideoGame/SuikodenWovenWebOfTheCenturies Woven Web of theCenturie]]'' for not being set in the same world as the mainline games (and also not penned by Yoshitaka Murayama), and thus don't consider them "true Suikodens", regardless of their merits.

* HarsherInHindsight: Similar to the "Final Fantasy House", the website Housemate Horror detailed a similar person called the [[https://shii.bibanon.org/shii.org/knows/Sarah_Sagahtml.html Sarah Saga]]... making some people react to a few of the characters in the first two games with disgust.

* FanonDiscontinuity: Some fans look down on ''VideoGame/SuikodenTierkreis'' and ''VideoGame/SuikodenWovenWebOfTheCenturies'' for not being set in the same world as the mainline games (and also not penned by Yoshitaka Murayama), and thus don't consider them "true Suikodens", regardless of their merits.

* ThatOneSidequest: Assembling all of the Stars of Destiny. How difficult it is varies from game to game, but each one has at least a few Stars that are very difficult to figure out on your own, if not nearly impossible withiout a [[GuideDangIt guide]].

* FanonDiscontinuity: Some fans look down on ''VideoGame/SuikodenTierkreis'' and ''VideoGame/SuikodenTheWovenWebOfACentury'' for not being set in the same world as the mainline games (and also not penned by Yoshitaka Murayama), and thus don't consider them "true Suikodens", regardless of their merits.

* MyRealDaddy: Yoshitaka Murayama planned out the whole world of 27 True Runes and was involved heavily in the first 2 games, thus making those games the most beloved, the 3rd, 4th and 5th mainline games had [[ToughActToFollow a lot of difficulties to live up with that]] after the amicable departure of Murayama but still generally more accepted since they're from the same verse. The same can't be said for ''VideoGame/SuikodenTierkreis'' and ''VideoGame/SuikodenTheWovenWebOfACentury'' (made completely free from Murayama's elements), so people occasionally throw those into FanonDiscontinuity. Generally, Murayama is considered the undisputed 'daddy' of ''Suikoden'' in the same vein of Creator/HideoKojima to ''Franchise/MetalGear'' or Koji Igarashi to ''Franchise/{{Castlevania}}''

* MyRealDaddy: Yoshitaka Murayama planned out the whole world of 27 True Runes and was involved heavily in the first 2 games, thus making those games the most beloved, the 3rd, 4th and 5th mainline games had [[ToughActToFollow a lot of difficulties to live up with that]] after the amicable departure of Murayama but still generally more accepted since it's from the same verse. The same can't be said for ''VideoGame/SuikodenTierkreis'' and ''VideoGame/SuikodenTheWovenWebOfACentury'' (made completely free from Murayama's elements), so people occasionally throw those into FanonDiscontinuity. Generally, Murayama is considered the undisputed 'daddy' of ''Suikoden'' in the same vein of Creator/HideoKojima to ''Franchise/MetalGear'' or Koji Igarashi to ''Franchise/{{Castlevania}}''

* MyRealDaddy: Yoshitaka Murayama planned out the whole world of 27 True Runes and was involved heavily in the first 2 games, thus making those games the most beloved, the 3rd, 4th and 5th mainline games had [[ToughActToFollow a lot of difficulties to live up with that]] after the amicable departure of Murayama but still generally more accepted since it's from the same verse. The same can't be said for ''VideoGame/SuikodenTierkreis'' and ''VideoGame/SuikodenTheWovenWebOfACentury'' (made completely free from Murayama's elements), so people occasionally throw those into FanonDiscontinuity. Generally, Murayama is considered the undisputed 'daddy' of ''Suikoden'' in the same vein of Creator/HideoKojima to ''Franchise/MetalGear'' or Creator/KojiIgarashi to ''Franchise/{{Castlevania}}''

* MyRealDaddy: Yoshitaka Murayama planned out the whole world of 27 True Runes and was involved heavily in the first 2 games, thus making those games the most beloved, the 3rd, 4th and 5th mainline games had [[ToughActToFollow a lot of difficulties to live up with that]] after the amicable departure of Murayama but still generally more accepted since it's from the same verse. The same can't be said for ''VideoGame/SuikodenTierkreis'' and ''VideoGame/SuikodenTheWovenWebOfACentury'' (made completely free from Murayama's elements), so people occasionally throw those into FanonDiscontinuity.

* FanonDiscontinuity: Some fans look down on ''VideoGame/SuikodenTierkreis'' and ''VideoGame/SuikodenTheWovenWebOfACentury'' for not being set in the same world as the mainline games, and thus don't consider them "true Suikodens", regardless of their merits.

* HarsherInHindsight: Similar to the "Final Fantasy House", the website Housemate Horror detailed a similar person called the [[https://shii.bibanon.org/shii.org/knows/Sarah_Sagahtml.html Sarah Saga]]... making some people react to a few of the characters in the first two games with disgust

** 'Most of the [[FuroScene bath scenes]].

* ViewerGenderConfusion: With her rather masculine hairstyle, you'd be forgiven to mistake Cleo for male.

** And then there's ''most'' of the [[FuroScene bath scenes]].

* MoralEventHorizon: Many of the villains indulge in this, but it is Luca Blight who takes it to an art form.

* ThatOneSidequest: Assembling all of the Stars of Destiny. How difficult it is varies from game to game, but each one has at least a few Stars that are very difficult to figure out on your own, if not [[GuideDangIt nearly impossible]].

* PlayerPunch: Nearly every game in the series contains at at least one star's death in the storyline and one important character's betrayal; generally, the main death is reversible or avertable if you collect all 108 stars of destiny, while the betrayal is not. These all tend to be player punches to some degree...

* HoYay / LesYay:
** It's easy to read Gremio being this towards TheHero in the first game. Almost every sentence he speaks relates in some way to the "young master". Though he claims he thinks of Tir as more of a son or brother.
** Lucretia from V, with both Cathari and Lelei. Lelei has a decidedly suggestive scene where she suggests that Lucretia not go to bed just yet on the night before the big battle, while Cathari notes that she and Lucretia were "more than just friends" when she joins.

** Richard's complete and utter admiration of Mueller in V borderlines this.

** Riou and Jowy from the second game certainly apply.

** In ''VideoGame/SuikodenII'', the main trio is saved by Anabelle, mayor of Muse, who take them under her wing after they are exiled for a crime they didn't commit. [[spoiler:In order to get closer to Lucca and put himself in a position of power within the Highland army, Jowy ends up betraying her by assassinating her in the middle of the night and by opening the gates of Muse, allowing the Highland army to launch a surprise attack. The main protagonist and his sister, Nanami, are left dumbfounded by this turn of events, and to top it all the crime is pinned on them]].
** Yun and Jimba's deaths in III. You can't reverse either one, and the only time you can use Jimba is before you start the Cyndar Ruins story.
** In ''VideoGame/SuikodenV'', [[spoiler:Sialeeds' betrayal]] took many players by surprise. This event upsets a lot of characters, and especially your protagonist: while Luserina tries to comfort him, the protagonist just turns around and walks off. You aren't even given the opportunity to select a dialogue option like usual. [[spoiler:The betrayal]] cut so deep that the player doesn't have their word on the matter: the silent protagonist is just too distraught and wants to be alone. Another PlayerPunch is [[spoiler:Lyon's sudden death]], though this can be averted with HundredPercentCompletion.

* TooCoolToLive:
** In Suikoden I you have [[spoiler:Ted (your best friend)]], the original host of the Soul Eater. [[spoiler:Odessa]] as well, although in this case dying did wonders for Flik's CharacterDevelopment.
** In Suikoden II you have Genkaku (your father figure) and [[spoiler:Annabelle (Muse´s mayor)]].
** In Suikoden III you have [[spoiler:Jimba, aka Wyatt Lightfellow,]] who you learn was the wielder of the True Water Rune [[spoiler:and father of Chris Lightfellow,]] and he dies shortly after these revelations.
** In Suikoden IV you have [[spoiler:Glenn the chief of the Knights of Razriel and your father figure (more or less)]].
** In the latest entry Suikoden V You have [[spoiler:Ferid]] and to a minor degree [[spoiler:Arshtat your parents]]. Actually whenever you are [[spoiler:the parent]] of the main hero please apply for a swift death and the hand of this trope.
*** Unless you're Lucia.
* TheWoobie:
** Futch [[spoiler: after his dragon Black is killed, and he is exiled from the Dragon Knights as a result.]]
** Leon Silverberg, [[spoiler:considering that both his [[strike: children]] niece Odessa and nephew Mathiu die by the end of the game and that he is truly alone without his family.]]
%%** Ted from the first game.

* ContestedSequel:
** ''VideoGame/SuikodenIII'' was this before Tierkreis. Despite getting excellent reviews from most markets, the fanbase was broken, largely over [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks changes to the battle system.]] Worth noting is that it was a very dramatic breaking: most fans either thought it was ruined or it wasn't at all. Comes up more often than any game besides II in most "Best Suikoden" threads in forums.
** ''VideoGame/SuikodenIV'' got it even worse for [[ArbitraryHeadCountLimit limiting the player to four party members]], [[GoddamnedBats upping the random encounter rate]], and shortening the overall length of the game (it's not hard to beat the whole thing in 20 hours with 108 stars, whereas it's nearly impossible to get through III in under 40 or so), and being set 150 years before all the other game... so the only returning characters are/were very minor in their previous/later appearances. Particularly, the combination of the smaller party size and shorter game made it very hard to get to know most of the cast.
** Despite getting solid reviews and considered one of the better RPG outings on the DS, ''VideoGame/SuikodenTierkreis'' annoyed many fans due to its lack of ContinuityNod.

* ToyShip: Cecile/Thomas in the third game, as the result of her adorable BodyguardCrush.

* PlayerPunch:
** Nearly every game in the series contains at at least one star's death in the storyline and one important character's betrayal; generally, the main death is reversible or avertable if you collect all 108 stars of destiny, while the betrayal is not. These all tend to be player punches to some degree...
** Almost any scene involving Pilika in Suikoden II. Also [[spoiler:Nanami's "death" scene in Rockaxe]].

* TheScrappy: We may as well rename the second to last Star as 'The Star of Scrappies' since it mostly produces hatedom-generating characters, such as Krin, Hoi... . There's also Kenji (not of the same Star), who is disliked due to his ridiculous fighting style (he uses aerobics and jogging to fight). Can't forget Snowe either.

** Leon Silverberg, [[spoiler: considering that both his [[strike: children]] niece Odessa and nephew Mathiu die by the end of the game and that he is truly alone without his family.]]
%%** Ted from the first game.

* BrokenBase:
** Despite getting solid reviews and considered one of the better RPG outings on the DS, ''VideoGame/SuikodenTierkreis'' annoyed many fans due to its lack of ContinuityNod.
** ''VideoGame/SuikodenIII'' was this before Tierkreis. Despite getting excellent reviews from most markets, the fanbase was broken, largely over [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks changes to the battle system.]] Worth noting is that it was a very dramatic breaking: most fans either thought it was ruined or it wasn't at all. Comes up more often than any game besides II in most "Best Suikoden" threads in forums.
** ''VideoGame/SuikodenIV'' got it even worse for [[ArbitraryHeadCountLimit limiting the player to four party members]], [[GoddamnedBats upping the random encounter rate]], and shortening the overall length of the game (it's not hard to beat the whole thing in 20 hours with 108 stars, whereas it's nearly impossible to get through III in under 40 or so), and being set 150 years before all the other game... so the only returning characters are/were very minor in their previous/later appearances. Particularly, the combination of the smaller party size and shorter game made it very hard to get to know most of the cast.

* NightmareFuel: All of the games have this in one form or another and in varying intensities:
** ''I'' set the bar with [[spoiler:Gremio's [[FamilyUnfriendlyDeath horrible death]] by being dissolved alive by flesh-eating spores]]. This is all the more nightmare-inducing by the fact that [[spoiler:Tir is right on the other side of the door within earshot of any and all death wails Gremio may have made]].
--> '''[[spoiler:Gremio]]''': The spores are at my feet. I can't see anymore.
** The [[ThatOneBoss Zombie Dragon]] definitely qualifies for this trope.
** II has Luca Blight. What happens to Muse is bad too, but Luca still takes the cake.
** [[spoiler:Luc]]'s motives and claims at the end of III could be potentially traumatizing.
** The fact that the Rune of Punishment slowly kills its user every time he uses it in ''VideoGame/SuikodenIV''.
** In ''VideoGame/SuikodenV'', Childerich and Nether Gate in general.

** Unless you're Lucia.