Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / RavagesOfTime

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Worry not, [[spoiler: Yang Xiu]] haters. In both actual history and TheRomanceOfTheThreeKingdoms, he is [[spoiler: put to death by Cao Cao when he proves to be too clever for his own good]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Anyone who read RomanceOfThreeKingdoms is certain to be aware of the outcome of major campaigns and the fates of almost every major characters. Anyone who didn't needs only look at chapter one to find out the answer to the most important question: it will not be Cao Cao, Liu Bei or Sun Quan who wins the war of Three Kingdoms, but Sima Yi.
* LauncherOfAThousandShip: Guo Jia, Guo Jia, Guo Jia. Guo Jia/Jia Xu, Guo Jia/Xun Yu and Guo Jia/Huo Tuo are probably among the most popular pairings in Chinese fandom. Given their interactions, [[FoeYay Guo Jia/Sima Yi]] is not without supporters.

to:

** Anyone who read RomanceOfThreeKingdoms Romance of the Three Kingdoms is certain to be aware of the outcome of major campaigns and the fates of almost every major characters. Anyone who didn't needs only look at chapter one to find out the answer to the most important question: it will not be Cao Cao, Liu Bei or Sun Quan who wins the war of Three Kingdoms, but Sima Yi.
* LauncherOfAThousandShip: LauncherOfAThousandShips: Guo Jia, Guo Jia, Guo Jia. Guo Jia/Jia Xu, Guo Jia/Xun Yu and Guo Jia/Huo Tuo are probably among the most popular pairings in Chinese fandom. Given their interactions, [[FoeYay Guo Jia/Sima Yi]] is not without supporters.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Lu Bu probably is also in the "know but doesn't care" camp (his daughter and advisor know by the time he's trying to break siege to deliver said daughter to Yuan Shu, so there's no reason to think he doesn't know as well).

to:

** Lu Bu probably is also in the "know but doesn't care" camp (his camp; his daughter outright says that Lu Bu likes Xiao Meng while she and advisor Chen Gong both know by the time he's trying to break the siege of Xiapi to deliver said daughter to Yuan Shu, so there's no reason to think he doesn't know as well).well.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* TheScrappy: Yang Qing [[spoiler:aka Yang Xiu]]. Many fans are not happy when such a seemingly trivial character [[spoiler:turns out to be a big shot who pretty much brings about the ruins of Yuan clan with his assassination of Yuan Fang and manipulating Yuan Shao to death]]. His SmugSnake attitude doesn't help his case a bit.

to:

* TheScrappy: Yang Qing [[spoiler:aka Yang Xiu]]. Many fans are not happy when such a seemingly trivial character [[spoiler:turns out to be a big shot who pretty much brings about the ruins of Yuan clan with his assassination of Yuan Fang and manipulating Yuan Shao to death]]. His SmugSnake attitude doesn't help his case a bit.bit, though [[spoiler:his being introduced as on Cao Zhi's side as far as contention over the succession or over Lady Zhen, while Jia Xu is on Cao Pi's side in chapter 390]] suggests that one day, he's going to get his.

Added: 408

Changed: 168

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** 'Sun Fu', Sun Ce's cousin appearing in volume 16-17, is actually Sun Ce. The one Yuan Shu believed to be Sun Ce and killed is Ling Cao, Sun Ce's subordinates.

to:

** Liaoyuan Huo's handicap is his [[FeelNoPain insensitivity to pain]].
** 'Sun Fu', Sun Ce's cousin appearing in volume 16-17, is actually Sun Ce. The one Yuan Shu believed to be Sun Ce and killed is Ling Cao, Sun Ce's subordinates.subordinate.


Added DiffLines:

* LauncherOfAThousandShip: Guo Jia, Guo Jia, Guo Jia. Guo Jia/Jia Xu, Guo Jia/Xun Yu and Guo Jia/Huo Tuo are probably among the most popular pairings in Chinese fandom. Given their interactions, [[FoeYay Guo Jia/Sima Yi]] is not without supporters.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Meanwhile, the main series is truer to actual history than RomanceOfTheThreeKingdoms, but it still often alludes to events in the novel and/or puts a new spin on them.

Changed: 45

Removed: 118

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Compared to the book and history, several characters get this treatment, mostly the tacticians that work on the same side as the Genius(obviously to show of the skill of the Geniuses). Cheng Yu, one of Cao Cao's most brutally effective tacticians literally fall to his knees to worship Guo Jia. Cheng Yu were more accomplished than any of the militarily inclined Geniuses.
*** The guy Cheng Yu prostrated himself to was not Guo Jia, though. [[spoiler:It was Sima Yi pretending to be a God.]]

to:

** Compared to the book and history, several characters get this treatment, mostly the tacticians that work on the same side as the Genius(obviously to show of the skill of the Geniuses). Cheng Yu, one of Cao Cao's most brutally effective tacticians literally fall to his knees to worship Guo Jia. [[spoiler: Sima Yi pretending to be a God.]]. Cheng Yu were more accomplished than any of the militarily inclined Geniuses.
*** The guy Cheng Yu prostrated himself to was not Guo Jia, though. [[spoiler:It was Sima Yi pretending to be a God.]]
Geniuses.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
These aren\'t YMMV. Moving.


* DistressedDude: Xun Yu. He gets kidnapped at the beginning of Xuzhou campaign, then gets shot at the beginning of Guandu campaign [[spoiler:by orders of Yuan Fang]].



* MrFanservice: Uh.. the entire main cast?
* OvershadowedByAwesome: Zhou Yu, anyone? He is a certified MagnificentBastard with his fair share of the spotlight in the Sun faction, but Sun Ce is just... ''[[MagnificentBastard m]][[GeniusBruiser a]][[OneManArmy n]]''.
** Plot and scene time wise, Cao Cao, Li Ru, and Yuan Shao suffer a lot from this. Li Ru himself even said it outright in the end of vol 10.
* ProgressivelyPrettier: Given the ArtRevolution this series undergoes in 44 volumes, this is to be expected of anybody, but Guo Jia's case seems to be most apparent to the readers. Just read these [[http://ravagingtimes.wordpress.com/rotreader/funny-fandom/ comments]].



* SpotlightStealingSquad: Despite trying to humanize several characters, Chen Mou has a bad habit of highlight some of his favorite and dumb down others. Although it should be note that he usually comes up with good backstories to keep them from being full-blown MarySues. For Example:
** Lu Bu: Despite being one of the most well-written characters in this series, it cannot be denied that he got a lot of CharacterFocus after he appears that you could rename first 32 volume as 'Lu Bu: God of War'. His moral issues and inability to predict a long-term strategy is still there but dumbed down somewhat since no one seems to call him on it (at least until he's about to abandon his man). Chen Mou even saved his dignity somewhat on execution scene (strangling, which is an execution save for woman) by doing that to every single one of his soldiers. Still, Chen Mou developed his character well enough that he become one of the most favorite characters.
** Yuan Fang: An Original Character who is a bastard son of Yuan Shao, [[OmnidisciplinaryScientist learns from both Sima Hui and Eight Freak]], considers Zhuge Liang, the best strategist of Three kingdom to be his competitor. Outshines his father completely. Not to mention that someone theorize that his 'Northern Kingdom' [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_and_Northern_Dynasties is a foundation for barbarian force that invade Jin dynasty later]].
** While we're at this, let's just say the Eight Geniuses and Sima Yi are ''the'' SpotlightStealingSquad of Ravages, what with them being MaryTzu [[TheChessmaster chessmasters]] who take all credits for the most brilliant strategies.

Added: 1086

Changed: 1

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Lu Bu probably is also in the "know but doesn't care" camp (his daughter and advisor know by the time he's trying to break siege to deliver said daughter to Yuan Shu, so there's no reason to think he doesn't know as well)

to:

** Lu Bu probably is also in the "know but doesn't care" camp (his daughter and advisor know by the time he's trying to break siege to deliver said daughter to Yuan Shu, so there's no reason to think he doesn't know as well)well).
* ItWasHisSled: Some of the twists in earlier volumes is this for initiated readers, making the characters involved WalkingSpoiler to newcomers in Ravages fandom. Beware of spoilers.
** 'Yuan Dang', the insider of Guandong alliance in Dong Zhuo's camp who rescued Xiao Meng from several rape attempts by Dong Zhuo's sons and nephew and escaped with him when the hostage rescue arc reached a climax, is Lu Bu.
** Xiao Meng is Diao Chan, and Liaoyuan Huo will eventually play the part of Zhao Yun in canon history.
** 'Sun Fu', Sun Ce's cousin appearing in volume 16-17, is actually Sun Ce. The one Yuan Shu believed to be Sun Ce and killed is Ling Cao, Sun Ce's subordinates.
** The identities of the Eight Geniuses up to the Seventh, Zhuge Liang.
** Anyone who read RomanceOfThreeKingdoms is certain to be aware of the outcome of major campaigns and the fates of almost every major characters. Anyone who didn't needs only look at chapter one to find out the answer to the most important question: it will not be Cao Cao, Liu Bei or Sun Quan who wins the war of Three Kingdoms, but Sima Yi.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Zhuge Liang finally shows his face in the most recent chapters of the Chibi arc. Some commented that he is rather underwhelming at Bishounen index when compared to the likes of Sima Yi, Zhou Yu etc.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Removing the scrappy one for having zero context.


* AlasPoorScrappy: [[spoiler:Yuan Shu]]. And while we're at that...
* AlasPoorVillain: Tends to be in effect whenever an "antagonist" dies. (InUniverse, Cao Cao publicly mourns for [[spoiler: his rival Yuan Shao at the man's grave]].)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** It should be note that Cao Cao badass decay wasn't come from his adviser only. It also come from the fact that Chen Mou cut most(if not all) of his EstablishingCharacterMoment (his first meeting with Guan Yu for example)and often thrash him and his army to make others look good, especially his battle with Sun Ce and his humiliation from Emperor Xian OF ALL PEOPLE!!!

to:

*** It should be note noted that Cao Cao badass decay wasn't come from his adviser only. It also come from the fact that Chen Mou cut most(if not all) of his EstablishingCharacterMoment (his first meeting with Guan Yu for example)and often thrash him and his army to make others look good, especially his battle with Sun Ce and his humiliation from Emperor Xian OF ALL PEOPLE!!!



** Specifically, Sun Ce in the novel Bofu. Before things go downhill for the Sun clan, Sun Ce has constantly felt outshone by his little brother [[YoungestChildWins Sun Quan]] who is the apple of the clan's eyes due to his prodigious smarts, while he himself had had a reputation of being a goofy, lazy person and therefore [[TheUnfavorite generally more useless older brother]]. The fact that Sun Quan [[StrongFamilyResemblance grows to resemble their father]], while his bland looks is less indicative of their relationship than even that of the unrelated, but hunky and intimidating-looking Ling Cao is also a particularly sore spot to Sun Ce (during an encounter with Dong army, a halberd he'd thrown was even mistaken to be Ling Cao's, although he stood just nearby). To not help the matter a bit, Sun Jian is kind of a strict father, who finds it easier to open his heart to his younger son and daughter but not [[WellDoneSonGuy his eldest son]]. [[FreudianExcuse Before long, he cracks under the pressure and disappointment and puts up an aloof, carefree facade to cope with his self-esteem issues]]. As a result, his mighty talents and cunnings as a warrior go under the radar, which lower the clansmen's expectation even more. And when his father finally shows a bit of approval for him, guess what? [[DespairEventHorizon He's killed in the very next battle, leaving Sun Ce completely broken]].

to:

** Specifically, Sun Ce in the novel Bofu. Before things go downhill for the Sun clan, Sun Ce has constantly felt outshone by his little brother [[YoungestChildWins Sun Quan]] who is the apple of the clan's eyes due to his prodigious smarts, while he himself had had has a reputation of being a goofy, lazy person and therefore [[TheUnfavorite generally more useless older brother]]. The fact that Sun Quan [[StrongFamilyResemblance grows to resemble their father]], while his bland looks is less indicative of their relationship than even that of the unrelated, but hunky and intimidating-looking Ling Cao is also a particularly sore spot to Sun Ce (during an encounter with Dong army, a halberd he'd thrown was even mistaken to be Ling Cao's, although he stood just nearby). To not help the matter a bit, Sun Jian is kind of a strict father, who finds it easier to open his heart to his younger son and daughter but not [[WellDoneSonGuy his eldest son]]. [[FreudianExcuse Before long, he cracks under the pressure and disappointment and puts up an aloof, carefree facade to cope with his self-esteem issues]]. As a result, his mighty talents and cunnings as a warrior go under the radar, which lower the clansmen's expectation even more. And when his father finally shows a bit of approval for him, guess what? [[DespairEventHorizon He's killed in the very next battle, leaving Sun Ce completely broken]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* {{Anvilicious}}: Yuan Shu's advisor. Basically a caricature of the typical old-fashioned learned man in this era: misogynistic and of the opinion that women should StayInTheKitchen, loyal to his master and prioritizes the master's interests well over his own, and [[spoiler:can die very young without making a name for himself.]]

to:

* {{Anvilicious}}: Yuan Shu's advisor. Basically a A caricature of the typical old-fashioned learned man in this era: misogynistic and of the opinion that women should StayInTheKitchen, loyal to his master and prioritizes the master's interests well over his own, and [[spoiler:can die very young without making a name for himself.]]



* RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap: Dong Zhuo, a StupidEvil [[FatBastard fat]] [[DirtyOldMan pervert]] [[CompleteMonster bastard]] with zero good points in ''Romance of Three Kingdoms'' upgraded into a [[MagneticHero magnetic]] anti-heroic [[WellIntentionedExtremist loyalist]] in Ravages of Time. Needless to say, he's attracted a considerable fanbase.

to:

* RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap: Dong Zhuo, a StupidEvil [[FatBastard fat]] [[DirtyOldMan pervert]] [[CompleteMonster bastard]] with zero good points in ''Romance of Three Kingdoms'' upgraded into a [[MagneticHero magnetic]] anti-heroic [[WellIntentionedExtremist loyalist]] in Ravages of Time. Needless to say, he's He's attracted a considerable fanbase.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* TheStationsOfTheCanon: The side novels, when dealing with events that happen in the comic, describes them exactly as they happened, and repeats all of the dialogue word-for-word.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* MemeticMutation: Fan rage at Zhuge Liang's refusal to show his face since volume 3 and [[http://mangafox.me/manga/the_ravages_of_time/v45/c364/27.html continued]] [[http://mangafox.me/manga/the_ravages_of_time/v46/c372/24.html attempt]] to cover it.

Added: 966

Changed: 133

Removed: 517

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AlasPoorVillain: [[spoiler:His brother, Yuan Shao.]]

to:

* AlasPoorVillain: [[spoiler:His brother, Tends to be in effect whenever an "antagonist" dies. (InUniverse, Cao Cao publicly mourns for [[spoiler: his rival Yuan Shao.]]Shao at the man's grave]].)



* MaryTzu: Almost everyone. Especially Sima Yi, and Jia Xu who so far never lost any battle. Yuan Fang also have a lot of this during early part in Battle of Guandu.
** Not just everyone. Precisely, the Eight Geniuses or on a lesser level, competent strategists like Chen Gong or Lu Xun. True, they all have their bad days, but these guys are the only ones who can possibly outgambit one another or defeat them in a way that isn't already accounted for in some crazy gambits.
* MrFanservice: Uh.. the entire main cast?



** Most of the men who lust after the beautiful eunuch Xiao Meng do so while he is disguised as a woman, but Liaoyuan Huo [[spoiler: AKA Zhao Yun]] ''knows'' that he is a man, and seems pretty clearly in love with him anyway.
** Lu Bu probably is also in the "know but doesn't care" camp (his daughter and advisor know by the time he's trying to break siege to deliver said daughter to Yuan Shu, so there's no reason to think he doesn't know as well)



* MaryTzu: Almost everyone. Especially Sima Yi, and Jia Xu who so far never lost any battle. Yuan Fang also have a lot of this during early part in Battle of Guandu.
** Not just everyone. Precisely, the Eight Geniuses or on a lesser level, competent strategists like Chen Gong or Lu Xun. True, they all have their bad days, but these guys are the only ones who can possibly outgambit one another or defeat them in a way that isn't already accounted for in some crazy gambits.
* MrFanservice: Uh.. the entire main cast?



** Lu Bu: Despite being one of the most well-written characters in this series, it cannot be denied that he got a lot of CharacterFocus after he appears that you could rename first 32 volume as 'Lu Bu: God of War'. His moral issue and inability to predict a long-term strategy is still there but dumbed down somewhat since no one seems to call him on it (at least until he's about to abandon his man). Chen Mou even saved his dignity somewhat on execution scene (strangling, which is an execution save for woman) by doing that to every single one of his soldier. Still, Chen Mou developed his character well enough that he become one of the most favorite characters.

to:

** Lu Bu: Despite being one of the most well-written characters in this series, it cannot be denied that he got a lot of CharacterFocus after he appears that you could rename first 32 volume as 'Lu Bu: God of War'. His moral issue issues and inability to predict a long-term strategy is still there but dumbed down somewhat since no one seems to call him on it (at least until he's about to abandon his man). Chen Mou even saved his dignity somewhat on execution scene (strangling, which is an execution save for woman) by doing that to every single one of his soldier.soldiers. Still, Chen Mou developed his character well enough that he become one of the most favorite characters.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* TooCoolToLive: The list is long. [[spoiler:Dong Zhuo, Lu Bu, Gao Shun, Chen Gong, Sun Ce, Yuan Fang,...]]

to:

* TooCoolToLive: The list is long. [[spoiler:Dong Zhuo, Lu Bu, Gao Shun, Chen Gong, Sun Ce, Yuan Fang,...Fang, Guo Jia...]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* EvilIsCool: Most fan probably forget of inhuman nature of several character(Guo Jia, Jia Xu, Sun Ce, Sima Yi, etc) but remember how cool they was. Being a group of Bishonen certainly help them too.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* SpotlightStealingSquad: Despite trying to humanizing several few character, Chen Mou have a bad habit of highlight some of his favorite and dumb down other. Although it should be note that he usually come up with good backstory to keep them from being full-blown MarySue. For Example:
** Lu Bu: Despite being one of a most well-written character in this series, it cannot be denied that he got a lot of CharacterFocus after he appear that you could rename first 32 volume as 'Lu Bu: God of War'. His moral issue and inability to predict a long-term strategy is still there but dumbed down somewhat since no one seems to call him on it(at least until he's about to abandon his man). Chen Mou even saved his dignity somewhat on execution scene (strangling, which is an execution save for woman) by doing that to every single one of his soldier. Still, Chen Mou developed his character well enough that he become one of the most favorite characters.

to:

* SpotlightStealingSquad: Despite trying to humanizing humanize several few character, characters, Chen Mou have has a bad habit of highlight some of his favorite and dumb down other. others. Although it should be note that he usually come comes up with good backstory backstories to keep them from being full-blown MarySue.MarySues. For Example:
** Lu Bu: Despite being one of a the most well-written character characters in this series, it cannot be denied that he got a lot of CharacterFocus after he appear appears that you could rename first 32 volume as 'Lu Bu: God of War'. His moral issue and inability to predict a long-term strategy is still there but dumbed down somewhat since no one seems to call him on it(at it (at least until he's about to abandon his man). Chen Mou even saved his dignity somewhat on execution scene (strangling, which is an execution save for woman) by doing that to every single one of his soldier. Still, Chen Mou developed his character well enough that he become one of the most favorite characters.



** While we're at this, let's just say the Eight Geniuses and Sima Yi are ''the'' SpotlightStealingSquad of RoT, what with them being MaryTzu [[TheChessmaster chessmasters]] who take all credits for the most brilliant strategies.

to:

** While we're at this, let's just say the Eight Geniuses and Sima Yi are ''the'' SpotlightStealingSquad of RoT, Ravages, what with them being MaryTzu [[TheChessmaster chessmasters]] who take all credits for the most brilliant strategies.

Added: 229

Changed: 38

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Lu Bu: Despite being one of a most well-written character in this series. It cannot be denied that he got a lot of CharacterFocus after he appear that you could rename first 32 volume as 'Lu Bu: God of War'. His moral issue and inability to predict a long-term strategy is still there but dumb down somewhat since noone seems to call him on it(at least until he about to abandon his man). Chen Mou even saving his dignity somewhat on execution scene(Strangling, which is an execution save for woman) by doing that to every single one of his soldier. Still, Chen Mou develop his character well enough that he become one of a most favorite character by many.
** Yuan Feng: An Original Character who is a bstard son of Yuan Shao, [[OmnidisciplinaryScientist learn from both Sima Hui and Eight Freak]], consider Zhuge Liang, the best strategist of Three kingdom to be his competitor. Outshine his father completely. Not to mention that someone theorize that his 'Northern Kingdom' [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_and_Northern_Dynasties is a foundation for barbarian force that invade Jin dynasty later]].

to:

** Lu Bu: Despite being one of a most well-written character in this series. It series, it cannot be denied that he got a lot of CharacterFocus after he appear that you could rename first 32 volume as 'Lu Bu: God of War'. His moral issue and inability to predict a long-term strategy is still there but dumb dumbed down somewhat since noone no one seems to call him on it(at least until he he's about to abandon his man). Chen Mou even saving saved his dignity somewhat on execution scene(Strangling, scene (strangling, which is an execution save for woman) by doing that to every single one of his soldier. Still, Chen Mou develop developed his character well enough that he become one of a the most favorite character by many.
characters.
** Yuan Feng: Fang: An Original Character who is a bstard bastard son of Yuan Shao, [[OmnidisciplinaryScientist learn learns from both Sima Hui and Eight Freak]], consider considers Zhuge Liang, the best strategist of Three kingdom to be his competitor. Outshine Outshines his father completely. Not to mention that someone theorize that his 'Northern Kingdom' [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_and_Northern_Dynasties is a foundation for barbarian force that invade Jin dynasty later]].later]].
** While we're at this, let's just say the Eight Geniuses and Sima Yi are ''the'' SpotlightStealingSquad of RoT, what with them being MaryTzu [[TheChessmaster chessmasters]] who take all credits for the most brilliant strategies.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Plot and scene time wise, Cao Cao, Li Ru, and Yuan Shao suffer a lot from this. Li Ru himself even said it outright in the end of vol 10.



* SpotlightStealingSquad: Despite trying to humanizing several few character, Chen Mou have a bad habit of highlight some of his favorite and dumb down other. Although it should be note that he usually come up with good backstory to keep them from being full-blown MarySue. For Example:
** Lu Bu: Despite being one of a most well-written character in this series. It cannot be denied that he got a lot of CharacterFocus after he appear that you could rename first 32 volume as 'Lu Bu: God of War'. His moral issue and inability to predict a long-term strategy is still there but dumb down somewhat since noone seems to call him on it(at least until he about to abandon his man). Chen Mou even saving his dignity somewhat on execution scene(Strangling, which is an execution save for woman) by doing that to every single one of his soldier. Still, Chen Mou develop his character well enough that he become one of a most favorite character by many.
** Yuan Feng: An Original Character who is a bstard son of Yuan Shao, [[OmnidisciplinaryScientist learn from both Sima Hui and Eight Freak]], consider Zhuge Liang, the best strategist of Three kingdom to be his competitor. Outshine his father completely. Not to mention that someone theorize that his 'Northern Kingdom' [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_and_Northern_Dynasties is a foundation for barbarian force that invade Jin dynasty later]].



** Specifically, Sun Ce in the novel Bofu. Before things go downhill for the Sun clan, Sun Ce has constantly felt outshone by his little brother [[YoungestChildWins Sun Quan]] who is the apple of the clan's eyes due to his prodigious smarts, while he himself had had a reputation of being a goofy, lazy person and therefore [[TheUnfavorite generally more useless older brother]]. The fact that Sun Quan [[StrongFamilyResemblance grows to resemble their father]], while his bland looks is less indicative of their relationship than even that of the unrelated, but hunky and intimidating-looking Ling Cao is also a particularly sore spot to Sun Ce (during an encounter with Dong army, a halberd he'd thrown was even mistaken to be Ling Cao's, although he stood just nearby). To not help the matter a bit, Sun Jian is kind of a strict father, who finds it easier to open his heart to his younger son and daughter but not [[WellDoneSonGuy his eldest son]]. [[FreudianExcuse Before long, he cracks under the pressure and disappointment and puts up an aloof, carefree facade to cope with his self-esteem issues]]. As a result, his mighty talents and cunnings as a warrior go under the radar, which lower the clansmen's expectation even more. And when his father finally shows a bit of approval for him, guess what? [[DespairEventHorizon He's killed in the very next battle, leaving Sun Ce completely broken]].

to:

** Specifically, Sun Ce in the novel Bofu. Before things go downhill for the Sun clan, Sun Ce has constantly felt outshone by his little brother [[YoungestChildWins Sun Quan]] who is the apple of the clan's eyes due to his prodigious smarts, while he himself had had a reputation of being a goofy, lazy person and therefore [[TheUnfavorite generally more useless older brother]]. The fact that Sun Quan [[StrongFamilyResemblance grows to resemble their father]], while his bland looks is less indicative of their relationship than even that of the unrelated, but hunky and intimidating-looking Ling Cao is also a particularly sore spot to Sun Ce (during an encounter with Dong army, a halberd he'd thrown was even mistaken to be Ling Cao's, although he stood just nearby). To not help the matter a bit, Sun Jian is kind of a strict father, who finds it easier to open his heart to his younger son and daughter but not [[WellDoneSonGuy his eldest son]]. [[FreudianExcuse Before long, he cracks under the pressure and disappointment and puts up an aloof, carefree facade to cope with his self-esteem issues]]. As a result, his mighty talents and cunnings as a warrior go under the radar, which lower the clansmen's expectation even more. And when his father finally shows a bit of approval for him, guess what? [[DespairEventHorizon He's killed in the very next battle, leaving Sun Ce completely broken]].broken]].
** Xiao Meng.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** Yuan Fang was a plot device/character he created to make Guandu cooler, while shooting down the idea of Yuan Fang as later becoming Cao Pi as "impossible to make it logical/plausible. Unless we involve aliens, or Cao Cao loses his mind while practicing some martial art thing..."
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:


* CharacterDerailment: One of the problems with the novel series.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* CharacterDerailment: One of the problems with the novel series.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* OvershadowedByAwesome: Zhou Yu, anyone? He is a certified MagnificentBastard with his fair share of the spotlight in the Sun faction, but Sun Ce is just... ''man''.

to:

* OvershadowedByAwesome: Zhou Yu, anyone? He is a certified MagnificentBastard with his fair share of the spotlight in the Sun faction, but Sun Ce is just... ''man''.''[[MagnificentBastard m]][[GeniusBruiser a]][[OneManArmy n]]''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* OvershadowedByAwesome: Zhou Yu, anyone? He is a certified MagnificentBastard with his fair share of the spotlight in the Sun faction, but Sun Ce is just... ''man''.

Added: 205

Changed: 2

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** It should be note that Cao Cao badass decay wasn't come from his adviser only. It also come from the fact that Chen Mou cut most(if not all) of his EstablishingCharacterMoment (his first meeting with Guan Yu for example)and often thrash him and his army to make others look good, especially his battle with Sun Ce and his humiliation from Emperor Xian OF ALL PEOPLE!!!.

to:

*** It should be note that Cao Cao badass decay wasn't come from his adviser only. It also come from the fact that Chen Mou cut most(if not all) of his EstablishingCharacterMoment (his first meeting with Guan Yu for example)and often thrash him and his army to make others look good, especially his battle with Sun Ce and his humiliation from Emperor Xian OF ALL PEOPLE!!!. PEOPLE!!!
*** Sure it's some lamentable BadassDecay for him, if you don't count the fact that whoever humiliates him ends up getting pulled off their mighty horse, and Cao Cao will get the last laugh no matter what.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** It should be note that Cao Cao badass decay wasn't come from his adviser only. It also come from the fact that Chen Mou cut most(if not all) of his EstablishingCharacterMoment (his first meeting with Guan Yu for example)and often thrash him and his army to make others look good, especially his battle with Sun Ce and his humiliation from Emperor Xian OF ALL PEOPLE!!!.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Not just everyone. Precisely, the Eight Geniuses or on a lesser level, competent strategists like Chen Gong or Lu Xun. True, they all have their bad days, but these guys are the only ones who can possibly outgambit one another. Or lose in some ways that don't make it a pre-calculated loss.

to:

** Not just everyone. Precisely, the Eight Geniuses or on a lesser level, competent strategists like Chen Gong or Lu Xun. True, they all have their bad days, but these guys are the only ones who can possibly outgambit one another. Or lose another or defeat them in a way that isn't already accounted for in some ways that don't make it a pre-calculated loss. crazy gambits.



* RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap: Dong Zhuo. A StupidEvil [[FatBastard fat]] [[DirtyOldMan pervert]] [[CompleteMonster bastard]] with zero good points in ''Romance of Three Kingdoms'' upgraded into a [[MagneticHero magnetic]] anti-heroic [[WellIntentionedExtremist loyalist]] in Ravages of Time. Needless to say, he's attracted a considerable fanbase.

to:

* RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap: Dong Zhuo. A Zhuo, a StupidEvil [[FatBastard fat]] [[DirtyOldMan pervert]] [[CompleteMonster bastard]] with zero good points in ''Romance of Three Kingdoms'' upgraded into a [[MagneticHero magnetic]] anti-heroic [[WellIntentionedExtremist loyalist]] in Ravages of Time. Needless to say, he's attracted a considerable fanbase.



** Following the clever twists with apparently original characters like Liaoyuan Huo and Xiao Meng turning out to be HistoricalDomainCharacter [[spoiler:like Zhao Yun and Diao Chan]], fans have taken to speculating other possible "identities" of characters who are fated to exit the stage early like Yuan Fang and Lu Bu. Many readers have theorized that Lu Bu will assume the identity of Lu Meng, which sounds plausible enough until [[spoiler:Lu Bu officially kicks the bucket by a can't-get-any-deader decapitation]] after volume 32. But the Yuan Fang conspiracists are where things get ridiculous: a very popular fan theory is that he will become Cao Pi, which is impossible as anything more serious than blind WildMassGuessing. [[http://ravagingtimes.wordpress.com/2012/03/07/chen-mou-interview-by-acg-ex-march-2012/ It's even outright jossed by the author]].

to:

** Following the clever twists with apparently original characters like Liaoyuan Huo and Xiao Meng turning out to be HistoricalDomainCharacter [[spoiler:like Zhao Yun and Diao Chan]], fans have taken to speculating other possible "identities" of characters who are fated to exit the stage early like Yuan Fang and Lu Bu. Many readers have theorized that Lu Bu will assume the identity of Lu Meng, which sounds plausible enough until [[spoiler:Lu Bu officially kicks the bucket by a can't-get-any-deader decapitation]] after volume 32. But the Yuan Fang conspiracists conspiracies are where things get ridiculous: a very popular fan theory is that he will become Cao Pi, which is impossible as anything more serious than blind WildMassGuessing. [[http://ravagingtimes.wordpress.com/2012/03/07/chen-mou-interview-by-acg-ex-march-2012/ It's even outright jossed by the author]].

Top