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* EvenBetterSequel: Despite mixed opinions on the plot compared to its predecessor, the gameplay is universally considered an improvement across the board. Shadow Pokémon now have fleshed out movesets, don't try to kill themselves with recoil damage, are much more useful in battle, there's a greater variety and number than before, you can convert Shadow Pokémon in batch now without having to constantly keep a slot open to individually Purify them, and Cipher's dungeons are more complex and engaging.

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* EvenBetterSequel: Despite mixed opinions on the plot compared to its predecessor, the gameplay is universally considered an improvement across the board. Shadow Pokémon now have fleshed out movesets, don't try to kill themselves with recoil damage, are much more useful in battle, there's a greater variety and number than before, you can convert Shadow Pokémon in batch batchs now without having to constantly keep a slot open to individually Purify them, and Cipher's dungeons are more complex and engaging.
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* UnwinnableByMistake: Beating Naps will cause the fight with Lovrina to trigger at the elevator to the lab’s entrance. The only PC is past her, and there’s no way to level grind or buy items, so if your party isn’t strong enough to beat hers, you’re completely stuck.

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* UnwinnableByMistake: Beating Naps will cause the fight with Lovrina to trigger at the elevator to the lab’s entrance. The only PC is past her, and there’s no way to level grind or buy items, so if your party isn’t strong enough to beat hers, you’re completely stuck.stuck if you saved your game after beating Naps.
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* UnwinnableByMistake: Beating Naps will cause the fight with Loverina to trigger at the elevator to the lab’s entrance. The only PC is past her, and there’s no way to level grind or buy items, so if your party isn’t strong enough to beat hers, you’re completely stuck.

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* UnwinnableByMistake: Beating Naps will cause the fight with Loverina Lovrina to trigger at the elevator to the lab’s entrance. The only PC is past her, and there’s no way to level grind or buy items, so if your party isn’t strong enough to beat hers, you’re completely stuck.
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Added DiffLines:

* UnwinnableByMistake: Beating Naps will cause the fight with Loverina to trigger at the elevator to the lab’s entrance. The only PC is past her, and there’s no way to level grind or buy items, so if your party isn’t strong enough to beat hers, you’re completely stuck.
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Optional bosses and the final boss do not qualify for this trope.


** Greevil not only has access to the three Legendary Birds, but also Lugia, as well as three Pokémon that are fairly strong in their own right.



** Lovrina in her Orre Colesseum battle. While the other 6 rounds are optional, Round 1 is required to be beaten in order to access the new PlayableEpilogue content, Lovrina serving as its final boss. Most of her team consists of annoying {{Stone Wall}}s with little attacking power but many ways to stall, except her Blissey, which is a shocking powerhouse. On top of its [[DamageSpongeBoss massive bulk]] and Leftovers, it has Counter and Seismic Toss to smash opponents who actually dent its health, and Sing and Attract to make any connecting moves rare. The safest ways to beat it are to get by itself, then deal it a OneHitKill, or put it to Sleep and slowly chip its health bar down.
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This trope only applies to characters.


* TakeThatScrappy: Pyrite Caves, considered by many to be ThatOneLevel, have been sealed off.

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Removed: 154

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Narm is for moments, not design flaws. Weblinks Are Not Examples.


* FoeYay:

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* FoeYay:FoeYayShipping:



* {{Narm}}:
** The title is hard to take seriously when it looks like the laughing {{Emoticon}}.
** [[https://youtu.be/LYE72Ku7vDE?t=510 Snattle's running animation.]]

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* {{Narm}}:
** The title is hard to take seriously when it looks like the laughing {{Emoticon}}.
**
%%* {{Narm}}: [[https://youtu.be/LYE72Ku7vDE?t=510 Snattle's running animation.]]

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Shadow Lugia is not a minor character and does not qualify for Ensemble Darkhorse. Examples Are Not Recent.


* AuthorsSavingThrow: In ''Colosseum'', you could only save on a PC, unlike the other games where you could save anywhere. This was fixed here.

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* AuthorsSavingThrow: AuthorsSavingThrow:
**
In ''Colosseum'', you could only save on a PC, unlike the other games where you could save anywhere. This was fixed here.



* ContestedSequel: To ''VideoGame/PokemonColosseum''. The LighterAndSofter take on Orre, using a more traditional KidHero protagonist, and in general recycling a lot of plot elements from ''Colosseum'' made many feel like this game was a step backwards. On the other hand, the vastly increased roster of Shadow Pokemon, giving them diverse moves and status effects made them feel like a fleshed out type in their own right, rather than a gimmick. These Mon are much more viable compared to the first game, where Shadow Pokemon had one move with no effect on other types or themselves. The graphics have notably improved textures and shading, as well as longer and more involved original locations. The only thing people never seem to criticize about the plot is [[EnsembleDarkhorse Shadow Lugia]].

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* ContestedSequel: To ''VideoGame/PokemonColosseum''. The LighterAndSofter take on Orre, using a more traditional KidHero protagonist, and in general recycling a lot of plot elements from ''Colosseum'' made many feel like this game was a step backwards. On the other hand, the vastly increased roster of Shadow Pokemon, giving them diverse moves and status effects made them feel like a fleshed out type in their own right, rather than a gimmick. These Mon are much more viable compared to the first game, where Shadow Pokemon had one move with no effect on other types or themselves. The graphics have notably improved textures and shading, as well as longer and more involved original locations. The only thing people never seem to criticize about the plot is [[EnsembleDarkhorse [[EvilIsCool Shadow Lugia]].



** [[EvilIsCool Shadow Lugia]] for being utterly badass and Miror B. (again) for being hilarious, LaughablyEvil, stylish, and having awesome music, are the most remembered characters in the game. Even to this day there are several fans demanding that they both make another appearance in the series.

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** [[EvilIsCool Shadow Lugia]] for being utterly badass and Miror B. (again) for being hilarious, LaughablyEvil, stylish, and having awesome music, are the most remembered characters in the game. Even to this day there are several fans demanding that they both make another appearance in the series.music.
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** Also, Gorrigan's letter talking of his new "friendship" with Michael is so over the top that some can't wonder how deep these feelings of "friendship" really run.

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** Also, Gorrigan's letter talking of his new "friendship" with Michael is so over the top that some can't help but wonder just how deep these feelings of "friendship" really run.
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* ComplacentGamingSyndrome: Teddiursa/Ursaring tends to be a staple on most player's teams due to it being the player's first Shadow Pokémon, and a physical powerhouse that stays useful for the entire game.

to:

* ComplacentGamingSyndrome: Teddiursa/Ursaring tends to be a staple on most player's teams due to it being teams. Not only is Teddiursa the player's first Shadow Pokémon, and a Pokémon you get, but it's physical powerhouse that stays useful for the entire game.game thanks to coming with a [=STAB=]-boosted Return and the useful Guts ability.
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Added DiffLines:

** Shadow Pokémon have been greatly improved upon: there are twice as many as the previous game, they have more moves than just Shadow Rush (which also don't deal recoil damage and are super effective against regular Pokémon, making them a legit threat) and there are far more different varieties of Pokémon.

Added: 435

Changed: 658

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* ContestedSequel: To ''VideoGame/PokemonColosseum''. While it cleaned up a lot of the criticism that game got, certain things, such as the less involved plot, the LighterAndSofter take on Orre, and in general recycling a lot of plot elements from ''Colosseum'' made many feel like this game was a step backwards. The only thing people never seem to criticize is [[EnsembleDarkhorse Shadow Lugia]].

to:

* ContestedSequel: To ''VideoGame/PokemonColosseum''. While it cleaned up a lot of the criticism that game got, certain things, such as the less involved plot, the The LighterAndSofter take on Orre, using a more traditional KidHero protagonist, and in general recycling a lot of plot elements from ''Colosseum'' made many feel like this game was a step backwards. On the other hand, the vastly increased roster of Shadow Pokemon, giving them diverse moves and status effects made them feel like a fleshed out type in their own right, rather than a gimmick. These Mon are much more viable compared to the first game, where Shadow Pokemon had one move with no effect on other types or themselves. The graphics have notably improved textures and shading, as well as longer and more involved original locations. The only thing people never seem to criticize about the plot is [[EnsembleDarkhorse Shadow Lugia]].



* EvenBetterSequel: Despite the above, the gameplay is universally considered an improvement across the board. Shadow Pokémon now have fleshed out movesets, don't try to kill themselves with recoil damage, are much more useful in battle, there's a greater variety and number than before, you can convert Shadow Pokémon in batch now without having to constantly keep a slot open to individually Purify them, and Cipher's dungeons are more complex and engaging.

to:

* EvenBetterSequel: Despite mixed opinions on the above, plot compared to its predecessor, the gameplay is universally considered an improvement across the board. Shadow Pokémon now have fleshed out movesets, don't try to kill themselves with recoil damage, are much more useful in battle, there's a greater variety and number than before, you can convert Shadow Pokémon in batch now without having to constantly keep a slot open to individually Purify them, and Cipher's dungeons are more complex and engaging.


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* VindicatedByHistory: In hindsight, some fans have come to appreciate the much more involved stakes relating to the protagonist. His father went missing, never to return, while his mother heads a research lab dedicated to halting Cypher's experiments while working with and getting some ShipTease with the local professor. Compared to the usual GenreBlindness and lack of relevance families and hometowns tend to get, it's refreshing.

Added: 466

Changed: 468

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* ContestedSequel: To ''VideoGame/PokemonColosseum''. While it cleaned up a lot of the criticism that game got, certain things, such as the less involved plot, the LighterAndSofter take on Orre, and in general recycling a lot of plot elements from Colosseum made many feel like this game was a step backwards. The only thing people never seem to criticize is [[EnsembleDarkhorse Shadow Lugia]].
* DifficultySpike: Shadow Lugia and 3 of the final boss's Shadow Pokémon have catch rates of 3 (out of 255) while, with the exception of a Shadow Snorlax and Chansey (which are still 30, or 3.9% with no damage and a default ball), everything else has catch rates that can easily be gotten to 20+% (sleep + Ultra/Net Ball). It seems as though catch rates for Legendary Pokémon may have been modified for this game, however, as they're at least easier to catch than in the main games.

to:

* ContestedSequel: To ''VideoGame/PokemonColosseum''. While it cleaned up a lot of the criticism that game got, certain things, such as the less involved plot, the LighterAndSofter take on Orre, and in general recycling a lot of plot elements from Colosseum ''Colosseum'' made many feel like this game was a step backwards. The only thing people never seem to criticize is [[EnsembleDarkhorse Shadow Lugia]].
* DifficultySpike: DifficultySpike:
**
Shadow Lugia and 3 of the final boss's Shadow Pokémon have catch rates of 3 (out of 255) while, with the exception of a Shadow Snorlax and Chansey (which are still 30, or 3.9% with no damage and a default ball), everything else has catch rates that can easily be gotten to 20+% (sleep + Ultra/Net Ball). It seems as though catch rates for Legendary Pokémon may have been modified for this game, however, as they're at least easier to catch than in the main games.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AuthorsSavingThrow: In Colosseum, you could only save on a PC, unlike the other games where you could save anywhere. This was fixed here.

to:

* AuthorsSavingThrow: In Colosseum, ''Colosseum'', you could only save on a PC, unlike the other games where you could save anywhere. This was fixed here.



* BreatherBoss: Gorigan's second fight isn't exactly ''easy'', but it's sandwiched between [[spoiler: Ardos and Eldes]], two of the hardest boss fights in the game. It almost comes across as relaxing compared to those two.

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* BreatherBoss: Gorigan's second fight isn't exactly ''easy'', but it's sandwiched between [[spoiler: Ardos [[spoiler:Ardos and Eldes]], two of the hardest boss fights in the game. It almost comes across as relaxing compared to those two.
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* ComplacentGamingSyndrome: Teddiursa/Ursaring tends to be a staple on most player's teams due to it being the player's first shadow Pokémon, and a physical powerhouse that stays useful for the entire game.

to:

* ComplacentGamingSyndrome: Teddiursa/Ursaring tends to be a staple on most player's teams due to it being the player's first shadow Shadow Pokémon, and a physical powerhouse that stays useful for the entire game.

Changed: -7

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* CompleteMonster: [[spoiler: [[OverlordJr Ardos]], one of the sons and CoDragons of Cipher's leader [[BigBad Greevil]], shows himself to be the most vicious and fanatical member within an already monstrous organization. Ardos is fully involved and supportive of Cipher's worst atrocities, involving the mass corruption of Pokémon into becoming unfeeling Shadow Pokémon—whereupon they'll be rendered unable to be purified and massed into an army through which Cipher will control the world. When Greevil is defeated, Ardos, in a last moment of desperation, attempts to cajole his father into killing the child protagonist by wiping out their base on Citadark Isle--[[BadBoss taking all his subordinates in the building with it]], to which Ardos merely scoffs "[[WeHaveReserves such things can be replaced]]". Even in the post-game, Ardos is as dedicated to the Cipher agenda as ever even when his father has surrendered himself, coldly informing the protagonist they are now Ardos's top target.]]

to:

* CompleteMonster: [[spoiler: [[OverlordJr [[spoiler:[[OverlordJr Ardos]], one of the sons and CoDragons of Cipher's leader [[BigBad Greevil]], shows himself to be the most vicious and fanatical member within an already monstrous organization. Ardos is fully involved and supportive of Cipher's worst atrocities, involving the mass corruption of Pokémon into becoming unfeeling Shadow Pokémon—whereupon they'll be rendered unable to be purified and massed into an army through which Cipher will control the world. When Greevil is defeated, Ardos, in a last moment of desperation, attempts to cajole his father into killing the child protagonist by wiping out their base on Citadark Isle--[[BadBoss taking all his subordinates in the building with it]], to which Ardos merely scoffs "[[WeHaveReserves such things can be replaced]]". Even in the post-game, Ardos is as dedicated to the Cipher agenda as ever even when his father has surrendered himself, coldly informing the protagonist they are now Ardos's top target.]]
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Cutting the fat.


* ComplacentGamingSyndrome: Mostly averted since this game boasts better Pokémon diversity than its predecessor, but Teddiursa/Ursaring tends to be a staple on most player's teams due to it being the player's first shadow Pokémon, and a physical powerhouse that stays useful for the entire game.

to:

* ComplacentGamingSyndrome: Mostly averted since this game boasts better Pokémon diversity than its predecessor, but Teddiursa/Ursaring tends to be a staple on most player's teams due to it being the player's first shadow Pokémon, and a physical powerhouse that stays useful for the entire game.
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First one fails "only applies to individuals not groups" criteria. Second "change in portrayal" and "outstandingly evil by the standards of the story" criteria (the prequel also displayed physical violence). Full criteria.


* MoralEventHorizon:
** Cipher as a whole crosses it in the first scene (as if they weren't on the other side of the line already) with the destruction of the S.S. Libra, which is confirmed to ''kill'' several people.
** Individually, we have Snattle's imprisonment of an entire town's population (apparently using violence no less), Lovrina's corruption of Shadow Lugia, and Ardos attempting to get Michael and everyone else within the area killed.
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None

Added DiffLines:

* DifficultySpike: Shadow Lugia and 3 of the final boss's Shadow Pokémon have catch rates of 3 (out of 255) while, with the exception of a Shadow Snorlax and Chansey (which are still 30, or 3.9% with no damage and a default ball), everything else has catch rates that can easily be gotten to 20+% (sleep + Ultra/Net Ball). It seems as though catch rates for Legendary Pokémon may have been modified for this game, however, as they're at least easier to catch than in the main games.
** The Hexagon Brothers and Miror B, postgame. The Hexagon Brothers hang around the Cipher lab in case you feel like battling them again or have to snag any Shadow Pokémon you missed the first time around. However, after you beat Greevil, they're all at level 50, save any Shadow Pokémon. Miror B, in the final battle at Gateon Port, has five level 57 Ludicolo and one level 55 Shadow Dragonite. (Fortunately, if you have Shadow Salamence, and it has been purified or relearned Wing Attack spamming Wing Attack keeps the Ludicolo from being too annoying, as long as you watch out for the one that knows an ice-type move.)
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None

Added DiffLines:

* AuthorsSavingThrow: In Colosseum, you could only save on a PC, unlike the other games where you could save anywhere. This was fixed here.


Added DiffLines:

* TakeThatScrappy: Pyrite Caves, considered by many to be ThatOneLevel, have been sealed off.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ComplacentGamingSyndrome: Mostly averted since this game boasts better Pokemon diversity than its predecessor, but Teddiursa/Ursaring tends to be a staple on most player's teams due to it being the player's first shadow Pokemon, and a physical powerhouse that stays useful for the entire game.

to:

* ComplacentGamingSyndrome: Mostly averted since this game boasts better Pokemon Pokémon diversity than its predecessor, but Teddiursa/Ursaring tends to be a staple on most player's teams due to it being the player's first shadow Pokemon, Pokémon, and a physical powerhouse that stays useful for the entire game.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ComplacentGamingSyndrome: Mostly averted since this game boasts better Pokemon diversity than its predecessor, but Tediursa/Ursaring tends to be a staple on most player's teams due to it being the player's first shadow Pokemon, and a physical powerhouse that stays useful for the entire game.

to:

* ComplacentGamingSyndrome: Mostly averted since this game boasts better Pokemon diversity than its predecessor, but Tediursa/Ursaring Teddiursa/Ursaring tends to be a staple on most player's teams due to it being the player's first shadow Pokemon, and a physical powerhouse that stays useful for the entire game.

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* AnticlimaxBoss: After defeating Chobin several times over the course of the early-to-mid game, he decides to bring out the big guns in order to stop the "burglar" from breaking into Kaminko Manor. And the big guns just so happen to be [[spoiler:an imposing Groudon mech that towers over the player.]] Cue the dramatic boss music... and [[spoiler:it's just another easy battle with Chobin that's barely different from the previous battle mere minutes ago.]] In this case though, it's both intentional and [[SugarWiki/FunnyMoments hilarious.]]



* ComplacentGamingSyndrome: Mostly averted since this game boasts better Pokemon diversity than its predecessor, but Tediursa/Ursaring tends to be a staple on most player's teams due to it being the player's first shadow Pokemon, and a physical powerhouse that stays useful for the entire game.



* ItsTheSameNowItSucks: Some thought the game re-used too much from ''Colosseum''.

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* ItsTheSameNowItSucks: Some thought the game re-used too much from ''Colosseum''.''Colosseum'', with [[spoiler:Greevil]] in particular basically being a rehashed, less surprising Evice.
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The Scrappy is mutually exclusive with BBC.


* BaseBreakingCharacter: Michael’s little sister Jovi is either adorable and cute, or an annoying [[TheScrappy scrappy]].

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* BaseBreakingCharacter: Michael’s Michael's little sister Jovi is either adorable and cute, or an annoying [[TheScrappy scrappy]].AnnoyingYoungerSibling.

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* BaseBreakingCharacter:
** Michael’s little sister Jovi is either adorable and cute, or an annoying [[TheScrappy scrappy]].

to:

* BaseBreakingCharacter:
**
BaseBreakingCharacter: Michael’s little sister Jovi is either adorable and cute, or an annoying [[TheScrappy scrappy]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Michael’s little sister Jovi is either an adorable and cute, or an annoying [[TheScrappy scrappy]].

to:

** Michael’s little sister Jovi is either an adorable and cute, or an annoying [[TheScrappy scrappy]].
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None

Added DiffLines:

* BaseBreakingCharacter:
** Michael’s little sister Jovi is either an adorable and cute, or an annoying [[TheScrappy scrappy]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* OlderThanTheyThink: ''Gale of Darkness'' was the first Pokémon game to feature the Physical-Special split, just one year before Generation IV did it with the mainline games. What separates the split here from future games, however, is that the split only applied to Shadow moves, whereas Gen IV made it so that ''all'' moves were categorized.

to:

* OlderThanTheyThink: ''Gale of Darkness'' was the first Pokémon game to feature the Physical-Special split, just one year before Generation IV did ''VideoGame/PokemonDiamondAndPearl'' introduced it with to the mainline games. What separates the split here from future games, however, is that the split it only applied applies to Shadow moves, whereas Gen IV made it so that ''all'' moves were categorized.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* OlderThanTheyThink: ''Gale of Darkness'' was the first Pokémon game to feature the Physical-Special split, a few years before Generation IV did it with the mainline games. What separates the split here from future games, however, is that the split only applied to Shadow moves, whereas Gen IV made it so that ''all'' moves were categorized.

to:

* OlderThanTheyThink: ''Gale of Darkness'' was the first Pokémon game to feature the Physical-Special split, a few years just one year before Generation IV did it with the mainline games. What separates the split here from future games, however, is that the split only applied to Shadow moves, whereas Gen IV made it so that ''all'' moves were categorized.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* OlderThanTheyThink: ''Gale of Darkness'' was the first Pokémon game to feature the Physical-Special split, a few years before Generation IV did it with the mainline games. What separates the split here from future games, however, is that the split only applied to Shadow moves, whereas Gen IV made it so that ''all'' moves were categorized.

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