Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / Oliver

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* RetroactiveRecognition: Nancy's friend Bet is played by Sheila White, who'd be more recognisable to fans of ''{{Series/Eastenders}}''.

to:

* RetroactiveRecognition: Nancy's friend Bet is played by Sheila White, Creator/SheilaWhite, who'd be more recognisable to fans of ''{{Series/Eastenders}}''. ''Series/EastEnders'' and the ''Film/ConfessionsOfA'' films.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Requires Word Of God confirmation


* AuthorsSavingThrow: The stage version ends with Fagin's reprise of "Reviewing the Situation", with some implied FridgeHorror at [[spoiler: Oliver's trauma at seeing Nancy and Bill's deaths]]. The film inserts a scene after the song where [[spoiler: Oliver arrives back at the house with Mr Brownlow and hugs Mrs Bedwin]], ending on a decidedly happier note.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Sikes can sometimes come under this too, particularly in his relationship with Nancy. It can be played as pretty much everything from him truly loving her and killing her more out of grief that she's betrayed him than outright anger, to being fairly disinterested in her and tolerating her presence for as long as she worships him.

to:

** Sikes can sometimes come under this too, particularly in his relationship with Nancy. It can be played as pretty much everything from him truly loving her and killing her more out of grief that she's betrayed him than outright anger, to being fairly disinterested in her and tolerating her presence for as long as she worships him. For that matter, the murder itself can be played as fully intentional, or it can come across as an accident, e.g. that he "only" meant to give her a brutal beating and didn't expect it to kill her.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Main characters don’t count for this trope


* EnsembleDarkhorse:
** Due to the musical playing around with Fagin's character in ways that both make him more likable and also harder to figure out, he's one of the favourite characters.
** Nancy too if you want to get technical. She doesn't appear for a good while but gets some of the best songs, and [[spoiler: a memorably horrific death]] - so she's treated like the female lead when she's just a supporting character.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* WhatAnIdiot:
** Twice he gets in big trouble because he just stands there like a deer in headlights - first when Dodger and Charlie pick Mr. Brownlow's pocket, then later when he accidentally knocks something over in a house he's trying to rob and he just stands there until the lights come on upstairs.
** Arguably Fagin and Dodger suffer this as well when they allow Oliver to "go to work" when he's been with them less than 24 hours and is clearly still far too honest and naive to be ready to pick pockets. (This is mainly due to AdaptationDistillation since in the book, Fagin forbids him from going out for several weeks while he's being trained).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:


* AccidentalInnuendo: "Everything's clear/ Attack the rear"
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* SpiritualSuccessor: The film (Film/Scrooge(1970)) is this to an extent. The set from Oliver! Was reused for that film, and many of the same people who worked on this film returned to work on Scrooge. The posters for Scrooge even advertised themselves as such.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* SpiritualSuccessor: The film Film/Scrooge(1970) is this to an extent. The set from Oliver! Was reused for that film, and many of the same people who worked on this film returned to work on Scrooge. The posters for Scrooge even advertised themselves as such.

to:

* SpiritualSuccessor: The film Film/Scrooge(1970) (Film/Scrooge(1970)) is this to an extent. The set from Oliver! Was reused for that film, and many of the same people who worked on this film returned to work on Scrooge. The posters for Scrooge even advertised themselves as such.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* SpiritualSuccessor: The film ''Film/Scrooge(1970)'' is this to an extent. The set from Oliver! Was reused for that film, and many of the same people who worked on this film returned to work on Scrooge. The posters for Scrooge even advertised themselves as such.

to:

* SpiritualSuccessor: The film ''Film/Scrooge(1970)'' Film/Scrooge(1970) is this to an extent. The set from Oliver! Was reused for that film, and many of the same people who worked on this film returned to work on Scrooge. The posters for Scrooge even advertised themselves as such.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* SpiritualSuccessor: The 1970 film [[Film/Scrooge(1970) Scrooge]] is this to an extent. The set from Oliver! Was reused for that film, and many of the same people who worked on this film returned to work on Scrooge. The posters for Scrooge even advertised themselves as such.

to:

* SpiritualSuccessor: The 1970 film [[Film/Scrooge(1970) Scrooge]] ''Film/Scrooge(1970)'' is this to an extent. The set from Oliver! Was reused for that film, and many of the same people who worked on this film returned to work on Scrooge. The posters for Scrooge even advertised themselves as such.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* SpiritualSuccessor: The 1970 film [[Film/Scrooge Scrooge]] is this to an extent. The set from Oliver! Was reused for that film, and many of the same people who worked on this film returned to work on Scrooge. The posters for Scrooge even advertised themselves as such.

to:

* SpiritualSuccessor: The 1970 film [[Film/Scrooge [[Film/Scrooge(1970) Scrooge]] is this to an extent. The set from Oliver! Was reused for that film, and many of the same people who worked on this film returned to work on Scrooge. The posters for Scrooge even advertised themselves as such.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* SpiritualSuccessor: The 1970 film Film/Scrooge is this to an extent. The set from Oliver! Was reused for that film, and many of the same people who worked on this film returned to work on Scrooge. The posters for Scrooge even advertised themselves as such.

to:

* SpiritualSuccessor: The 1970 film Film/Scrooge [[Film/Scrooge Scrooge]] is this to an extent. The set from Oliver! Was reused for that film, and many of the same people who worked on this film returned to work on Scrooge. The posters for Scrooge even advertised themselves as such.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* SpiritualSuccessor: The 1970 film Film/Scrooge is this to an extent. The set from Oliver! Was reused for that film, and many of the same people who worked on this film returned to work on Scrooge. The posters for Scrooge even advertised themselves as such.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Creator/RonMoody's impeccable performance as Fagin was rightfully nominated, but he sadly didn't take home the trophy. He did win the Globe though.

to:

** Creator/RonMoody's impeccable performance as Fagin was rightfully nominated, but he sadly didn't take home the trophy. He did win the Globe UsefulNotes/GoldenGlobe though.

Added: 74

Changed: 464

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AwardSnub: As time has gone by, people are left wondering why Shani Wallis wasn't even nominated for Best Actress at the Oscars.
** Ron Moody’s impeccable performance was rightfully nominated, but he sadly didn’t take home the trophy. He did win the Globe though.
** Oliver Reed’s chilling work went unnoticed.

to:

* AwardSnub: AwardSnub:
**
As time has gone by, people are left wondering why Shani Wallis wasn't even nominated for Best Actress at the Oscars.
UsefulNotes/{{Academy Award}}s.
** Ron Moody’s Creator/RonMoody's impeccable performance as Fagin was rightfully nominated, but he sadly didn’t didn't take home the trophy. He did win the Globe though.
** Oliver Reed’s Creator/OliverReed's chilling work performance as Bill Sikes went unnoticed.

Changed: 413

Removed: 644

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
YMMV tropes can't be subverted


* BigLippedAlligatorMoment:
** The song "I Shall Scream". While it can be pretty funny, it has absolutely no bearing on the plot. Rather fittingly, it's left out of the 1968 movie version. It establishes a romance between Mr. Bumble and Ms. Corney, which is referenced later during ''one scene'' in the second act, and is thematically important: the Bumbles are evil, selfish people, and thus they make each other miserable rather than happy.
** Cleverly subverted with "Oom Pah Pah". Upon first viewing, it's just a merry drinking song to get everyone in a good mood and doesn't appear to have any bearing on the plot. Then Sikes comes in and Nancy uses it as a diversion.

to:

* BigLippedAlligatorMoment:
**
BigLippedAlligatorMoment: The song "I Shall Scream". While it can be pretty funny, it has absolutely no bearing on the plot. Rather fittingly, it's left out of the 1968 movie version. It establishes a romance between Mr. Bumble and Ms. Corney, which is referenced later during ''one scene'' in the second act, and is thematically important: the Bumbles are evil, selfish people, and thus they make each other miserable rather than happy. \n** Cleverly subverted with "Oom Pah Pah". Upon first viewing, it's just a merry drinking song to get everyone in a good mood and doesn't appear to have any bearing on the plot. Then Sikes comes in and Nancy uses it as a diversion.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** And one of the originial stage actors for The Artful Dodger was [[Franchise/TheMonkees Davy Jones]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Good grief, Fagin. FAGIN. How do we properly trope him? He's cast in this adaption in a much lighter and comedical tone. But the lovable rogue's character bounces ''all over the place''. One minute he's fun and endearing, the next mentally unhinged, if anyone stumbles upon his secret horde. He gives the orphaned children of London a home, and teaches them how to survive, whereas the alternative is begging on the streets or ending up in the Workhouse. But despite the wealth he's accumulated, doesn't do much to improve theirs (or indeed his own) squalid living conditions.

to:

** Good grief, Fagin. FAGIN. How do we properly trope him? He's cast in this adaption in a much lighter and comedical tone. But the lovable rogue's {{lovable rogue}}'s character bounces ''all over the place''. One minute he's fun and endearing, the next mentally unhinged, if anyone stumbles upon his secret horde. He gives the orphaned children of London a home, and teaches them how to survive, whereas the alternative is begging on the streets or ending up in the Workhouse. But despite the wealth he's accumulated, doesn't do much to improve theirs (or indeed his own) squalid living conditions.



* CantUnHearIt: Creator/RonMoody as Fagin, Creator/OliverReed as Bill Sikes, Jack Wild as the Artful Dodger to name a few.
* FightSceneFailure: When Bill hits Nancy, Oliver Reed is showing visible restraint and the slap doesn't properly connect. The sound effect is also clearly dubbed in.

to:

* CantUnHearIt: Creator/RonMoody as Fagin, Creator/OliverReed as Bill Sikes, Jack Wild Creator/JackWild as the Artful Dodger to name a few.
* FightSceneFailure: When Bill hits Nancy, Oliver Reed Creator/OliverReed is showing visible restraint and the slap doesn't properly connect. The sound effect is also clearly dubbed in.



** Fagin giving the children gin can be a little sad to watch with the knowledge of Jack Wild's alcohol problems as he grew older - resulting in throat surgery due to the damage.

to:

** Fagin giving the children gin can be a little sad to watch with the knowledge of Jack Wild's Creator/JackWild's alcohol problems as he grew older - resulting in throat surgery due to the damage.



* HilariousInHindsight: Casting Oliver Reed as the drunken lout Bill Sikes was incredibly meta, given his legendary status as a member of the hard drinking foursome of British actors (along with Peter O'Toole, Richard Harris and Richard Burton).

to:

* HilariousInHindsight: Casting Oliver Reed Creator/OliverReed as the drunken lout Bill Sikes was incredibly meta, given his legendary status as a member of the hard drinking foursome of British actors (along with Peter O'Toole, Richard Harris Creator/PeterOToole, Creator/RichardHarris and Richard Burton).Creator/RichardBurton).



* UnpopularPopularCharacter: Many lovers of the film feel Ron Moody's performance as the scoundrel Fagin, is the best adaptation of the character ever, and unmatched.

to:

* UnpopularPopularCharacter: Many lovers of the film feel Ron Moody's Creator/RonMoody's performance as the scoundrel Fagin, is the best adaptation of the character ever, and unmatched.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* RetroactiveRecognition: One of Dodger's understudies in the original cast was Creator/TonyRobinson
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Ron Moody’s impeccable performance was rightfully nominated, but he sadly didn’t take home the trophy. He did win the Globe though.
** Oliver Reed’s chilling work went unnoticed.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Zero Context Example. Also, propose candidates for Complete Monster on this thread


* CompleteMonster: Bill Sykes.

Added: 794

Changed: 176

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AwardSnub: As time has gone by, people are left wondering why Shani Wallis wasn't even nominated for Best Actress at the Oscars.



* HarsherInHindsight: Fagin giving the children gin can be a little sad to watch with the knowledge of Jack Wild's alcohol problems as he grew older - resulting in throat surgery due to the damage.

to:

* HarsherInHindsight: HarsherInHindsight:
**
Fagin giving the children gin can be a little sad to watch with the knowledge of Jack Wild's alcohol problems as he grew older - resulting in throat surgery due to the damage.damage.
** "Oom Pah Pah" becomes that much more of a TearJerker due to its placement in the film - as when seeing it, you know it's going to lead to [[spoiler: Nancy's horrible death]].


Added DiffLines:

* OneSceneWonder: Hugh Griffith takes the cake as the Magistrate in his one scene, where he's drunk throughout the whole hearing and keeps sneaking sips under his desk lid.
* RetroactiveRecognition: Nancy's friend Bet is played by Sheila White, who'd be more recognisable to fans of ''{{Series/Eastenders}}''.

Added: 3942

Changed: 335

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* SugarWiki/AwesomeMoments:
** Nancy's terrific ReasonYouSuckSpeech to Bill after grudgingly helping steal Oliver back. He may have struck her to get her to kidnap the boy, but the moment she sees him about to beat Oliver, she puts herself between them. Even when Bill draws a belt to whip him, she grabs it and tells him that he will not lay a finger on the child. She doesn't care if he hits her again or kills her, she won't allow any harm to come to Oliver. She also reminds Fagin that she could ruin him, Sikes and the rest of the children with one word to the authorities - which she will do even if it means she goes down with them. The fact that Bill doesn't try to beat Oliver again says he knows she was not making an empty threat.
** [[spoiler: Nancy's death]] can also count as a DyingMomentOfAwesome depending on how they choose to play it (certainly the case in the film). [[spoiler: While Bill is beating her, she screams as loudly as possible to alert Mr Brownlow and at least ensure Oliver gets to safety]].



* HesJustHiding: [[spoiler: Nancy has been known to receive lots of cheers when her actress comes out to take the final bows - most of it from children who think it means she survived]].



* CantUnHearIt: Creator/RonMoody as Fagin, Creator/OliverReed as Bill Sikes, Jack Wild as the Artful Dodger to name a

to:

* AuthorsSavingThrow: The stage version ends with Fagin's reprise of "Reviewing the Situation", with some implied FridgeHorror at [[spoiler: Oliver's trauma at seeing Nancy and Bill's deaths]]. The film inserts a scene after the song where [[spoiler: Oliver arrives back at the house with Mr Brownlow and hugs Mrs Bedwin]], ending on a decidedly happier note.
* SugarWiki/AwesomeMoments: "Oom-Pah-Pah" becomes even more awesome in the film version. On the stage, it's basically an IrrelevantActOpener to set up MoodWhiplash when Bill Sikes makes his first appearance. Here, it's something Nancy spontaneously orchestrates to distract Bill and Fagin - allowing her to sneak Oliver out in the chaos. The song is the reason [[spoiler: Oliver gets his happy ending]].
* CantUnHearIt: Creator/RonMoody as Fagin, Creator/OliverReed as Bill Sikes, Jack Wild as the Artful Dodger to name a few.
* FightSceneFailure: When Bill hits Nancy, Oliver Reed is showing visible restraint and the slap doesn't properly connect. The sound effect is also clearly dubbed in.
* SugarWiki/FunnyMoments:
** During "Consider Yourself", Dodger and Oliver slide down a chute to where some fishmongers are preparing their stock. Dodger slides right into a poor woman who goes flying.
** When Oliver, Dodger and Charley are running from the police - the latter two try to hide Oliver in the sack used for wrapping meat carcasses at a butcher's stall. Of course the butcher grabs the one Oliver is wrapped in and rips it off, foiling their ingenious plan.
** As "Who Will Buy?" and its elaborate choreography comes to an end, we see Bill and Dodger hiding behind a tree with a look on their faces that says "WTF did we just see?"
** As the crowd is stunned by [[spoiler: Bill accidentally hanging himself]], Dodger takes advantage of the situation by lifting one gentleman's wallet.
* HarsherInHindsight: Fagin giving the children gin can be a little sad to watch with the knowledge of Jack Wild's alcohol problems as he grew older - resulting in throat surgery due to the damage.
* HilariousInHindsight: Casting Oliver Reed as the drunken lout Bill Sikes was incredibly meta, given his legendary status as a member of the hard drinking foursome of British actors (along with Peter O'Toole, Richard Harris and Richard Burton).
* {{Moe}}: Mark Lester is so adorably innocent as Oliver that he prompts this reaction.


Added DiffLines:

* ToughActToFollow: It's very telling that a film version of a musical didn't win the Best Picture Oscar until 34 years later (''{{Film/Chicago}}'' if you're curious). This is also considered one of the last truly great movie musicals before ''Theatre/HelloDolly'' killed the genre at the end of the decade.


Added DiffLines:

* WTHCastingAgency: Oliver's singing is clearly dubbed by a female voice, and it can result in an odd VocalDissonance during songs like "Where Is Love?" - where the voice sounds much older (Kathe Green was twenty-four when she dubbed the singing). They originally had two other boys to dub Mark Lester, but discovered in post production that their voices didn't match his look - and Kathe was a quick replacement.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
In-Universe Examples Only!


* EarWorm:
** Sing it with us now - "consider yourself..."
** "It's a Fine Life" despite being incredibly dark when you think about it, is still ferociously catchy.
** "Oom Pah Pah" tends to get stuck in the brain for an extended period too.

Added: 2141

Changed: 452

Removed: 257

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The song "I Shall Scream". While it can be pretty funny, it has absolutely no bearing on the plot. Rather fittingly, it's left out of the 1968 movie version.
*** It establishes a romance between Mr. Bumble and Ms. Corney, which is referenced later during ''one scene'' in the second act, and is thematically important: the Bumbles are evil, selfish people, and thus they make each other miserable rather than happy.

to:

** The song "I Shall Scream". While it can be pretty funny, it has absolutely no bearing on the plot. Rather fittingly, it's left out of the 1968 movie version.
***
version. It establishes a romance between Mr. Bumble and Ms. Corney, which is referenced later during ''one scene'' in the second act, and is thematically important: the Bumbles are evil, selfish people, and thus they make each other miserable rather than happy.



* EarWorm:
** Sing it with us now - "consider yourself..."
** "It's a Fine Life" despite being incredibly dark when you think about it, is still ferociously catchy.
** "Oom Pah Pah" tends to get stuck in the brain for an extended period too.
* EnsembleDarkhorse:
** Due to the musical playing around with Fagin's character in ways that both make him more likable and also harder to figure out, he's one of the favourite characters.
** Nancy too if you want to get technical. She doesn't appear for a good while but gets some of the best songs, and [[spoiler: a memorably horrific death]] - so she's treated like the female lead when she's just a supporting character.
* LoveToHate: The Bumbles are entertainingly horrid and get a fun song ("I Shall Scream") so they have a lot of fans, rather like the Thernardiers from ''Theatre/LesMiserables''.



* OneSceneWonder: Noah Claypool only gets one scene, as opposed to his long and loathsome presence in the book. However, he avoids being DemotedToExtra via making quite an impression during his brief time on stage.

to:

* OneSceneWonder: OneSceneWonder:
**
Noah Claypool only gets one scene, as opposed to his long and loathsome presence in the book. However, he avoids being DemotedToExtra via making quite an impression during his brief time on stage.stage.
** The unnamed Rose Seller who only appears in "Who Will Buy?", but the solo is considered very important and is always a remembered part of the arrangement.
* SignatureSong: Even people who haven't seen the show or the film know "Consider Yourself" instantly. Creator/EddieRedmayne joked that any theatre kid in the UK knows the song and the dance off by heart (he played one of the pickpocket children in a Creator/SamMendes production at the age of ten).
* VanillaProtagonist: When he's surrounded by memorable characters like Fagin, Dodger, Nancy, the Bumbles and Sikes - Oliver doesn't have much to offer. They just have more entertaining songs and character arcs.


Added DiffLines:

* WhatDoYouMeanItsForKids: Considered a family-friendly show, despite it adapting many of the darker parts that came from the very grim novel (it does treat some of them with a more comedic age, making it more accessible for children). This includes the shockingly violent climax [[spoiler: involving Sikes beating Nancy to death and then dying himself - by hanging in the 1968 or sometimes being shot]]. The 1968 film was even G-rated!
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Cleverly subverted with "Oom Pah Pah". Upon first viewing, it's just a merry drinking song to get everyone in a good mood and doesn't appear to have any bearing on the plot. Then Sikes comes in...

to:

** Cleverly subverted with "Oom Pah Pah". Upon first viewing, it's just a merry drinking song to get everyone in a good mood and doesn't appear to have any bearing on the plot. Then Sikes comes in...in and Nancy uses it as a diversion.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


few.

Added: 34

Changed: 4

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


few.
* CompleteMonster: Bill Sykes.



* CantUnHearIt: Creator/RonMoody as Fagin, Creator/OliverReed as Bill Sikes, Jack Wild as the Artful Dodger to name a few.

to:

* CantUnHearIt: Creator/RonMoody as Fagin, Creator/OliverReed as Bill Sikes, Jack Wild as the Artful Dodger to name a few.
Tabs MOD

Changed: 6

Removed: 426

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* EarWorm:
** "That's Your Funeral" if you don't think that's an ear worm.
** "Food Glorious Food"
** "Oliver, never before has a boy wanted more."
** "You've Got to Pick a Pocket or Two"
** "Reviewing the Situation" to a lesser extent.
** "Consider Yourself One of Us"
** "Oom pah pah" that's how it goes
** "Who Will Buy?"
** Most of the songs apart from the more depressing ones such as "Where is love?" and "As long as he need me".



* TheWoobie:
** Oliver.
** Nancy.

to:

* %%* TheWoobie:
** %%** Oliver.
** %%** Nancy.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:


* ChaoticNeutral: Fagin technically qualifies. Though he works for NeutralEvil Bill Sikes, his role as a leader of thieves is mostly to steal for survival. Ron Moody arguably portrays Fagin's conniving ways most famously.

Top