History YMMV / OldWorldBlues

* HarsherInHindsight: As shown below, segment of fans, particuarly on the OWB discord, tend to be ''very'' dismissive of any faction that can be considered "good" seeking to claim the mantle of the United States due to how bad America was before the bombs fell; this being despite the fact that a fair chunk of these factions disavow the Enclave. [[spoiler: With the heavy implications in the [[Series/Fallout2024 TV series]] that one of the reasons Vault-Tec sought to instigate the Great War(regardless of if they fired the first shot or not) was because they view all national and cultural identities of the Old World as having failed, including America itself, and wanted to erase America and the rest of the world so they can reshape the world into one horrific post-apocalyptic corporate dystopia "transcending" politics, to view restoring the US as an inherently bad idea in itself because of the actions of the pre-War Government/Enclave and Vault-Tec(which actually sought to do away with America) might not be entirely the right mindset.....]]

* HarsherInHindsight: As shown below, segment of fans on discord tend to be ''very'' dismissive of any faction that can be considered "good" seeking to claim the mantle of the United States due to how bad America was before the bombs fell; this being despite the fact that a fair chunk of these factions disavow the Enclave. [[spoiler: With the heavy implications in the [[Series/Fallout2024 TV series]] that one of the reasons Vault-Tec sought to instigate the Great War(regardless of if they fired the first shot or not) was because they view all national and cultural identities of the Old World as having failed, including America itself, and wanted to erase America and the rest of the world so they can reshape the world into one horrific post-apocalyptic corporate dystopia "transcending" politics, to view restoring the US as an inherently bad idea in itself because of the actions of the pre-War Government/Enclave and Vault-Tec(which actually sought to do away with America) might not be entirely the right mindset.....]]

* RonTheDeathEater: Many of the saner factions out to restore the United States(ie: Grant Hayes-led NCR, Commonwealth Remnants under Johnson, Cult of Liberty, [=MacArthur=]'s anti-Enclave route, General Freedom) tend to get a bit of this from diehard adherents of the satirical themes of the Fallout series and those that view all old world nostaligia as inherently toxic, said adherents seeing said routes as naive at best or some of the worst routes for the Wasteland at worst. Much of this perception is tied to the degeneration of the pre-War US into a Fascist oligarchy controlled by the Enclave before the bombs fall and the satirical critique of American exceptionalism in the Fallout franchise itself. This is despite many of these groups repudiating the ideology of the pre-war government and the Enclave in favor of creating a new America that lives up to its' founding principles while bringing technological progress back to the post-apocalyptic wastes. While many of these factions may engage in morally dubious actions, they are nowhere as bad as the more outright villainous factions in the game and the actual remnants of the Enclave themselves.

* HarsherInHindsight: As shown below, segment of fans on discord tend to be ''very'' dismissive of any faction that can be considered "good" seeking to claim the mantle of the United States due to how bad America was before the bombs fell; this being despite the fact that a fair chunk of these factions disavow the Enclave. [[spoiler: With the heavy implications in the [[Series/Fallout2024 TV series]] that one of the reasons Vault-Tec sought to instigate the Great War was because they view all national and cultural identities of the Old World as having failed, including America itself, and wanted to erase America and the rest of the world so they can reshape the world into one horrific post-apocalyptic corporate dystopia "transcending" politics, to view restoring the US as an inherently bad idea in itself because of the actions of the pre-War Government/Enclave and Vault-Tec(which actually sought to do away with America) might not be entirely the right mindset.....]]

* HarsherInHindsight: As shown below, segment of fans on discord tend to be ''very'' dismissive of any faction that can be considered "good" seeking to claim the mantle of the United States due to how bad America was before the bombs fell; this being despite the fact that a fair chunk of these factions disavow the Enclave. [[spoiler: With the heavy implications in the ''[[Series/Fallout2024 TV series]]'' that one of the reasons Vault-Tec sought to instigate the Great War was because they view all national and cultural identities of the Old World as having failed, including America itself, and wanted to erase America and the rest of the world so they can reshape the world into one horrific post-apocalyptic corporate dystopia "transcending" politics, to view restoring the US as an inherently bad idea in itself because of the actions of the pre-War Government/Enclave and Vault-Tec(which actually sought to do away with America) might not be entirely the right mindset.....]]

* HarsherInHindsight: As shown below, segment of fans on discord tend to be ''very'' dismissive of any faction that can be considered "good" seeking to claim the mantle of the United States due to how bad America was before the bombs fell; this being despite the fact that a fair chunk of these factions disavow the Enclave. [[spoiler: With the heavy implications in the '[['Series/Fallout2024 TV series]]'' that one of the reasons Vault-Tec sought to instigate the Great War was because they view all national and cultural identities of the Old World as having failed, including America itself, and wanted to erase America and the rest of the world so they can reshape the world into one horrific post-apocalyptic corporate dystopia "transcending" politics, to view restoring the US as an inherently bad idea in itself because of the actions of the pre-War Government/Enclave and Vault-Tec(which actually sought to do away with America) might not be entirely the right mindset.....]]

* BrokenBase: How the Enclave should be handled in the mod can be a extremely contentious topic among the playerbase. One group of players want more paths featuring Enclave remnants that and also feel that the Chicago Enclave should be the ultimate BigBad of the setting, believing a greater role for the Enclave to not only not be lore-breaking, citing lore hinting towards Enclave holdouts existing in Chicago, but also providing a good opportunity for players to either fight an iconic villain faction in the setting as a potential campaign FinalBoss or even play as them, rebuild their power base, and potentially take them in a saner direction in lieu of the official games relegating them to full antagonist status. On the other hand another group of players find both the Enclave overrated and/or their fanbase [[DracoInLeatherPants excessively apologetic]] along with finding the premise lore-breaking, citing that evidence of Enclave holdouts outside the [[VideoGame/Fallout3 Capital Wasteland]] are based on extremely vague lore. They also claim that over-emphasizing the Enclave as either a threat or a playable faction takes the spotlight away from more interesting factions and storylines. Not helping matters is the fact that the current dev team tends to have a very tepid reaction to the idea of more Enclave content, while the developers the most enthusiastic about building up a greater role for the Enclave in the story have mostly left the team.

* MorePopularSpinOff: Discussion about the ''VideoGame/EnclaveReborn'' submod often eclipses discussion of the various factions and routes in the mod proper. This is due to the huge [[RootingForTheEmpire popularity of the Enclave]] among Fallout fans, the fact that thus far many anticipated Enclave and Enclave-adjunct groups(Chicago, MODUS, and the Capital Enclave) have yet to appear in the mod proper aside from a few hints of future content, along with the engaging narrative offered by the submod that allows the survivors of the Navarro Enclave to either double down on their evil actions, make their ideology more palatable to the Wasteland, or even try to genuinely make amends for their past crimes.

* CompleteMonster: [[EldritchAbomination The Putrescent Mother]] is an extradimensional horror brought forward into the material plane due to [[PlayingWithSyringes experiments]] carried out by American science before the Great War on a young girl named V. Taking advantage of V's immortality and powers developed through these experiments, the Mother promises her power if she will create a body for her. If V does not resist the Mother's influence, she and the Psykers of the [[Characters/OWBOklahoma Chained Choir]] will subject the inhabitants of post-apocalyptic Oklahoma to either mind control, zombification, or having themselves killed and their bodies and souls stitched together to form a new body for the Mother. Those who get zombified will be sent to work as slave labour indefinitely without rest and be used as fodder for the Psykers. Once the Mother awakens in her new body, she [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness gruesomely disposes of V and the Choir]] and seeks to consume the entirety of the American wasteland, and eventually humanity itself.

* BrokenBase: How the Enclave should be handled in the mod can be a extremely contentious topic among the playerbase. One group of players want more paths featuring Enclave remnants that and also feel that the Chicago Enclave should be the ultimate BigBad of the setting, believing a greater role for the Enclave to not only not be lore-breaking, citing lore hinting towards Enclave holdouts existing in Chicago, but also providing a good opportunity for players to either fight an iconic villain faction in the setting as a potential campaign FinalBoss or even play as them and potentially take them in a saner direction in lieu of the official games relegating them to antagonist status. On the other hand another group of players find both the Enclave overrated and/or their fanbase [[DracoInLeatherPants excessively apologetic]] along with finding the premise lore-breaking, citing that evidence of Enclave holdouts outside the [[VideoGame/Fallout3 Capital Wasteland]] are based on extremely vague lore. They also claim that over-emphasizing the Enclave as either a threat or a playable faction takes the spotlight away from more interesting factions and storylines. Not helping matters is the fact that the current dev team tends to have a very tepid reaction to the idea of more Enclave content, while the developers the most enthusiastic about building up a greater role for the Enclave in the story have mostly left the team.

* BrokenBase: How the Enclave should be handled in the mod can be a extremely contentious topic among the playerbase. One group of players want more paths featuring Enclave remnants that and also feel that the Chicago Enclave should be the ultimate BigBad of the setting, believing a greater role for the Enclave to not only not be lore-breaking, citing lore hinting towards Enclave holdouts existing in Chicago, but also providing a good opportunity for players to either fight an iconic villain faction in the setting as a potential campaign FinalBoss or even play as them and potentially take them in a saner direction in lieu of the official games relegating them to antagonist status. On the other hand another group of players find both the Enclave overrated and/or their fanbase [[DracoInLeatherPants excessively apologetic]] along with finding the premise lore-breaking, citing that evidence of multiple strong Enclave Detachments outside the [[VideoGame/Fallout3 Capital Wasteland]] is based on extremely vague lore. They also claim that over-emphasizing the Enclave as either a threat or a playable faction takes the spotlight away from more interesting factions and storylines. Not helping matters is the fact that the current dev team tends to have a very tepid reaction to the idea of more Enclave content, while the developers the most enthusiastic about building up a greater role for the Enclave in the story have mostly left the team.

* BrokenBase: How the Enclave should be handled in the mod can be a extremely contentious topic among the playerbase. One group of players want more paths featuring Enclave remnants that can potentially rebuild their power base. They also feel that the Chicago Enclave should be the ultimate BigBad of the setting, believing a greater role for the Enclave to not only not be lore-breaking, citing lore hinting towards Enclave Detachments existing through the wasteland, but also providing a good opportunity for players to either fight an iconic villain group in the setting as a potential campaign FinalBoss or even play as them and potentially take them in a saner direction in lieu of the official games relegating them to antagonist status. On the other hand another group of players find both the Enclave overrated and/or their fanbase [[DracoInLeatherPants excessively apologetic]] along with finding the premise lore-breaking, citing that evidence of multiple strong Enclave Detachments outside the [[VideoGame/Fallout3 Capital Wasteland]] is based on extremely vague lore. They also claim that over-emphasizing the Enclave as either a threat or a playable faction takes the spotlight away from more interesting factions and storylines.

* BrokenBase: The portrayal of the remnants of the Enclave as both having multiple holdouts and opportunities to rebuild their power base and potentially being the ultimate BigBad of the setting by way of the Chicago Enclave. Some players feel this premise does not break the lore too much, noting that non-Enclave related factions outnumber the various Enclave holdouts, and that it makes for a good narrative and a and a good opportunity to either fight an iconic villain group in the setting as a potential campaign FinalBoss or even play as them and potentially take them in a saner direction in lieu of the official games relegating them to antagonist status, while others find both the Enclave overrated and/or their fanbase [[DracoInLeatherPants excessively apologetic]] along with finding the premise lore-breaking, citing that evidence of multiple strong Enclave Detachments outside the [[VideoGame/Fallout3 Capital Wasteland]] is based on extremely vague lore. They also claim that over-emphasizing the Enclave as either a threat or a playable faction takes the spotlight away from more interesting factions and storylines.

* JustHereForGodzilla: Many players play the mod with the sole purpose of playing as the Enclave or alternatively some of the saner factions that can take up the mantle of successor to the United States like Hayes-led NCR or the Northern Commonwealth/Reunited States of America should [=MacArthur=] cut all ties with the Enclave. This is why the Chicago Enclave, the Commonwealth Remnants, and even some nations not on the roadmap like the Capital Enclave are some of the most anticipated upcoming nations in the mod as well as why ''VideoGame/EnclaveReborn'' is the most popular submod for the mod.
* MorePopularSpinOff: Discussion about the ''VideoGame/EnclaveReborn'' submod often eclipses discussion of the various factions and routes in the mod proper. This is due to the huge [[RootingForTheEmpire popularity of the Enclave]] among Fallout fans, the fact that thus far the most anticipated Enclave and Enclave-adjunct groups(Commonwealth Remnants, Chicago, MODUS, and the Capital Enclave) have yet to appear in the mod proper aside from a few hints of future content, along with the engaging narrative offered by the submod that allows the survivors of the Navarro Enclave to either double down on their evil actions, embrace a more pragmatic form of Fascism, or even try to genuinely make amends for their past crimes.

* RonTheDeathEater: Grant Hayes gets quite a bit of this from diehard adherents of the satirical themes of the Fallout series and those that view all old world nostaligia as inherently toxic, said adherents seeing him as one of the ''worst'' routes for the NCR and the Wasteland as a whole. Much of this perception is tied to him wanting to restore America, which was a brutal Fascist oligarchy before the bombs fall. This is despite Grant Hayes repudiating the ideology of the pre-war government and the Enclave in favor of creating a new America that lives up to its' founding principles while bringing technological progress back to the post-apocalyptic wastes. While he does have authoritarian tendencies and end up subverting democracy, they are nowhere as bad as the more outright villainous factions in the game and the actual remnants of the Enclave themselves.

* RonTheDeathEater: Grant Hayes gets quite a bit of this from diehard adherents of the satirical themes of the Fallout series and those that view all old world nostaligia as inherently toxic, said adherents seeing him as one of the ''worst'' routes for the NCR and the Wasteland as a whole. Much of this perception is tied to him wanting to restore America, which was a brutal Fascist oligarchy before the bombs fall. This is despite Grant Hayes repudiating the ideology of the pre-war government and the Enclave in favor of creating a new America that lives up to its' founding principles while bringing technological progress back to the post-apocalyptic wastes.

* RonTheDeathEater: Grant Hayes gets quite a bit of this from diehard adherents of the satirical themes of the Fallout series and those that view all old world nostaligia as inherently toxic. This is due to him wanting to restore America, which was a brutal Fascist oligarchy before the bombs fall. This is despite Grant Hayes repudiating the ideology of the pre-war government and the Enclave in favor of creating a new America that lives up to its' founding principles while bringing technological progress back to the post-apocalyptic wastes.

* BrokenBase: The portrayal of the remnants of the Enclave as both having multiple holdouts and opportunities to rebuild their power base and potentially being the ultimate BigBad of the setting by way of the Chicago Enclave. Some players feel this premise does not break the lore too much, noting that non-Enclave related factions outnumber the various Enclave holdouts, and that it makes for a good narrative and a and a good opportunity to either fight an iconic villain group in the setting as a potential campaign FinalBoss or even play as them in lieu of the official games relegating them to antagonist status, while others find both the Enclave overrated and/or their fanbase [[DracoInLeatherPants excessively apologetic]] along with finding the premise lore-breaking, citing that evidence of multiple strong Enclave Detachments outside the [[VideoGame/Fallout3 Capital Wasteland]] is based on extremely vague lore. They also claim that over-emphasizing the Enclave as either a threat or a playable faction takes the spotlight away from more interesting factions and storylines.

* BrokenBase:
** The portrayal of the remnants of the Enclave as both having multiple holdouts and opportunities to rebuild their power base and potentially being the ultimate BigBad of the setting by way of the Chicago Enclave. Some players feel this premise does not break the lore too much, noting that non-Enclave related factions outnumber the various Enclave holdouts, and that it makes for a good narrative and a and a good opportunity to either fight an iconic villain group in the setting as a potential campaign FinalBoss or even play as them in lieu of the official games relegating them to antagonist status, while others find both the Enclave overrated and/or their fanbase [[DracoInLeatherPants excessively apologetic]] along with finding the premise lore-breaking, citing that evidence of multiple strong Enclave Detachments outside the [[VideoGame/Fallout3 Capital Wasteland]] is based on extremely vague lore.
*** Related to the above, there has been debates surrounding whether the Enclave remnants should be given options(popularized by the ''VideoGame/EnclaveReborn'' submod) to reform their ideology to something saner and whether that would make for an interesting story or if it would cheapen the themes of the ''Fallout'' games themselves. Detractors argue that giving the option for players to play a [[PragmaticVillainy less genocidal but still villainous]] or even a [[HeelFaceTurn legitimately repentant]] Enclave feeds into [[DracoInLeatherPants apologetic]] views on the Enclave and spits on the anti-militarist and anti-consumerist satire of the original games portraying of the Old World as a Fascist hellscape; potentially even enabling far-right radicalization at a time when the grand strategy wargaming community and [[Anime/MobileSuitGundam various]] [[TabletopGame/Warhammer40000 fanbases]] [[Anime/AttackOnTitan known]] to whitewash certain villains have all been accused of proliferating far-right politics. Supporters argue that it would make for an interesting narrative never done in the mainline games, that the Enclave has had a fair chunk of [[TokenGoodTeammate sympathetic]] and pragmatic members in canon that makes the idea of a saner Enclave somewhat plausible, that villains in [[Franchise/StarWars other franchises]] written as a TakeThat towards American militarism have been written to have [[Characters/StarWarsNewJediOrderAndLegacyErasImperialRemnant evolved into something saner]] in the past without real-world radicalization. They also point out that as a fan game, [=OWB=] is not obliged to follow to the letter the themes of the games themselves, noting that the mod allows Caeser's Legion to be legitimately reformed to be a functioning society despite being presented as a unsustainable death cult in ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas''.

** The portrayal of the remnants of the Enclave as both having multiple holdouts and opportunities to rebuild their power base and potentially being the ultimate BigBad of the setting by way of the Chicago Enclave. Some players feel this premise makes for a good narrative and a and a good opportunity to either fight an iconic villain group in the setting as a potential campaign FinalBoss or even play as them in lieu of the official games relegating them to antagonist status, while others find both the Enclave overrated and/or their fanbase [[DracoInLeatherPants excessively apologetic]] along with finding the premise lore-breaking, citing that evidence of multiple strong Enclave Detachments outside the [[VideoGame/Fallout3 Capital Wasteland]] is based on extremely vague lore.
*** Related to the above, there has been debates surrounding whether the Enclave remnants should be given options(popularized by the ''VideoGame/EnclaveReborn'' submod) to reform their ideology to something saner and whether that would make for an interesting story or if it would cheapen the themes of the ''Fallout'' games themselves. Detractors argue that giving the option for players to play a [[PragmaticVillainy less genocidal but still villainous]] or even a [[HeelFaceTurn legitimately repentant]] Enclave feeds into [[DracoInLeatherPants apologetic]] views on the Enclave and spits on the anti-militarist and anti-consumerist satire of the original games and their portrayal of the Old World as a Fascist hellscape; potentially even enabling real-world radicalization at a time when the Grand Strategy community, the European military history community, and [[Anime/MobileSuitGundam various]] [[TabletopGame/Warhammer40000 fanbases]] [[Anime/AttackOnTitan known]] to whitewash certain villains have all been associated with enabling real world far-right politics. Supporters argue that it would make for an interesting narrative never done in the mainline games, that the Enclave has had a fair chunk of [[TokenGoodTeammate sympathetic]] and pragmatic members in canon that makes the idea of a saner Enclave somewhat plausible, that villains in [[Franchise/StarWars other franchises]] written as a TakeThat towards American militarism have been written to have [[Characters/StarWarsNewJediOrderAndLegacyErasImperialRemnant evolved into something saner]] in the past without much backlash. They also point out that as a fan game, [=OWB=] is not obliged to follow to the letter the themes of the games themselves, noting that the mod allows Caeser's Legion to be legitimately reformed to be a functioning society despite being presented as a unsustainable death cult in ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas''.

*** Related to the above, there has been debates surrounding whether the Enclave remnants should be given options(popularized by the ''VideoGame/EnclaveReborn'' submod) to reform their ideology to something saner and whether that would make for an interesting story or if it would cheapen the themes of the ''Fallout'' games themselves. Detractors argue that giving the option for players to play a [[PragmaticVillainy less genocidal but still villainous]] or even a [[HeelFaceTurn legitimately repentant]] Enclave feeds into [[DracoInLeatherPants apologetic]] views on the Enclave and spits on the anti-militarist and anti-consumerist satire of the original games and their portrayal of the Old World as a Fascist hellscape; potentially even enabling real-world radicalization at a time when the Grand Strategy community, the European military history community, and [[Anime/MobileSuitGundam various]] [[TabletopGame/Warhammer40000 fanbases]] [[Anime/AttackOnTitan known]] to whitewash certain villains have all been associated with enabling real world far-right politics. Supporters of the idea argue that it would make for an interesting narrative never done in the mainline games, that the Enclave has had a fair chunk of [[TokenGoodTeammate sympathetic]] and pragmatic members in canon that makes the idea of a saner Enclave somewhat plausible, that villains in [[Franchise/StarWars other franchises]] written as a TakeThat towards American militarism have been written to have [[Characters/StarWarsNewJediOrderAndLegacyErasImperialRemnant evolved into something saner]] in the past without much backlash. They also point out that as a fan game, [=OWB=] is not obliged to follow to the letter the themes of the games themselves, noting that the mod allows Caeser's Legion to be legitimately reformed to be a functioning society despite being presented as a unsustainable death cult in ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas''.

*** Related to the above, there has been debates surrounding whether the Enclave remnants should be given options(popularized by the ''VideoGame/EnclaveReborn'' submod) to reform their ideology to something saner and whether that would make for an interesting story or if it would cheapen the themes of the ''Fallout'' games themselves. Detractors argue that giving the option for players to play a [[PragmaticVillainy less genocidal but still villainous]] or even a [[HeelFaceTurn legitimately repentant]] Enclave feeds into [[DracoInLeatherPants apologetic]] views on the Enclave and spits on the anti-militarist and anti-consumerist satire of the original games and their portrayal of the Old World as a Fascist hellscape; potentially even enabling real-world radicalization at a time when the Grand Strategy community, the European military history community, and [[Anime/MobileSuitGundam various]] [[TabletopGame/Warhammer40000 fanbases]] [[Anime/AttackOnTitan known]] to whitewash certain villains have all been associated with enabling real world far-right politics. On the other hand, supporters of the idea argue that it would make for an interesting narrative never done in the mainline games, that the Enclave has had a fair chunk of TokenGoodTeammate and pragmatic members in said game that makes the idea of a saner Enclave somewhat plausible, that villains in [[Franchise/StarWars other franchises]] written as a TakeThat towards American militarism have been written to have [[Characters/StarWarsNewJediOrderAndLegacyErasImperialRemnant evolved into something saner]] in the past without much backlash. They also point out that as a fan game, [=OWB=] is not obliged to follow to the letter the themes of the games themselves, noting that the mod allows Caeser's Legion to be legitimately reformed to be a functioning society despite being presented as a unsustainable death cult in ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas''.

*** Related to the above, there has been debates surrounding whether the Enclave remnants should be given options(popularized by the ''VideoGame/EnclaveReborn'' submod) to reform their ideology to something saner and whether that would make for an interesting story or if it would cheapen the themes of the ''Fallout'' games themselves. Detractors argue that giving the option for players to play a [[PragmaticVillainy less genocidal but still villainous]] or even a [[HeelFaceTurn legitimately repentant]] Enclave feeds into [[DracoInLeatherPants apologetic]] views on the Enclave and spits on the anti-militarist and anti-consumerist satire of the original games and their portrayal of the Old World as a Fascist hellscape; potentially even enabling real-world radicalization at a time when the Grand Strategy community, the European military history community, and [[Anime/MobileSuitGundam various]] [[TabletopGame/Warhammer40000 fanbases]] [[Anime/AttackOnTitan known]] to whitewash certain villains have all been associated with enabling real world far-right politics. On the other hand, supporters of the idea argue that it would make for an interesting narrative never done in the mainline games, that the Enclave has had a fair chunk of TokenGoodTeammate and pragmatic members in said game that makes the idea of a saner Enclave somewhat plausible, that villains in [{Franchise/StarWars other franchises]] written as a TakeThat towards American militarism have been written to have [[Characters/StarWarsNewJediOrderAndLegacyErasImperialRemnant evolved into something saner]] in the past without much backlash. They also point out that as a fan game, [=OWB=] is not obliged to follow to the letter the themes of the games themselves, noting that the mod allows Caeser's Legion to be legitimately reformed to be a functioning society despite being presented as a unsustainable death cult in ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas''.

*** Related to the above, there has been debates surrounding whether the Enclave remnants should be given options(popularized by the ''VideoGame/EnclaveReborn'' submod) to reform their ideology to something saner and whether that would make for an interesting story or if it would cheapen the themes of the ''Fallout'' games themselves. Detractors argue that giving the option for players to play a [[PragmaticVillainy less genocidal but still villainous]] or even a [[HeelFaceTurn legitimately repentant]] Enclave feeds into [[DracoInLeatherPants excessively apologetic]] views on the Enclave and spits on the anti-militaristic and anti-consumerist satire of the original games and their portrayal of the Old World as too tied to Fascist hypernationalism to be brought back; potentially even enabling real-world far-right radicalization at a time when the Grand Strategy community, the European military history community, and [[Anime/MobileSuitGundam various]] [[TabletopGame/Warhammer40000 fanbases]] [[Anime/AttackOnTitan known]] to whitewash certain villains have all been associated with enabling real world far-right politics. On the other hand, supporters of the idea argue that it would make for an interesting narrative never done in the mainline games, that the Enclave has had a fair chunk of TokenGoodTeammate and pragmatic members in said game that makes the idea of a saner Enclave somewhat plausible, that [[Characters/StarWarsGalacticEmpire other villains]] in other franchises written as a TakeThat towards American militarism have been written to have evolved into something saner in the past with far less backlash. They also point out that as a fan game, [=OWB=] is not obliged to follow to the letter the themes of the, noting that sane factions seeking to restore the Pre-War United States[[note]]Grant Hayes, the People path for [=MacArthur=], and elements of the upcoming Commonwealth Remnants faction[[/note]] while rejecting the Fascism of its government do exist and the fact that Caeser's Legion could be legitimately reformed to be a functioning society despite being presented as a unsustainable Death cult in the original games themselves.

* BrokenBase: The role of the Enclave in this mod, with the implication that the Chicago Enclave is not only extremely powerful, but would be the ultimate BigBad of the setting. Some find the idea of a expanded role of the Enclave a interesting narrative and a good opportunity to either fight an iconic villain group in the setting as a potential campaign FinalBoss or even play as them in lieu of the official games relegating them to antagonist status, while others find both the Enclave overrated and the premise lore-breaking, citing that evidence of a strong Enclave Detachment in Chicago is based on extremely vague lore and that apart from the [[VideoGame/Fallout3 Capital Enclave]], most of the Enclave would have dissolved in the 2270s. There is also the debate as to if Enclave remnants should be given options(popularized by the ''VideoGame/EnclaveReborn'' submod) to reform their ideology to something saner, with proponents arguing that it could make for an interesting redemption arc for the faction and detractors arguing that it feeds into [[DracoInLeatherPants excessively apologetic]] views on the Enclave and potentially enables real-world far-right radicalization, especially with [[Anime/MobileSuitGundam various]] [[TabletopGame/Warhammer40000 fanbases]] [[Anime/AttackOnTitan known]] to whitewash certain villains being accused of enabling real world far-right beliefs and Paradox facing criticism for its' refusal to showcase Nazi atrocities in [=HOI4=] as potentially leading to radicalization as well.

* MorePopularSpinOff: Discussion about the ''VideoGame/EnclaveReborn'' submod often eclipses discussion of the various factions and routes in the mod proper. This is due to the huge [[RootingForTheEmpire popularity of the Enclave]] among Fallout fans, the fact that thus far the most anticipated Enclave and Enclave-adjunct groups(Commonwealth Remnants, Chicago, MODUS, and the Capital Enclave) have yet to appear in the mod proper aside from a few hints of future content, along with the engaging narrative offered by the submod that allows the Enclave featured to either double down on their evil actions, embrace a more pragmatic form of Fascism, or even try to genuinely make amends for their past crimes.

* MostPopularSpinOff: Discussion about the ''VideoGame/EnclaveReborn'' submod often eclipses discussion of the various factions and routes in the mod proper. This is due to the huge [[RootingForTheEmpire popularity of the Enclave]] among Fallout fans, the fact that thus far the most anticipated Enclave and Enclave-adjunct groups(Commonwealth Remnants, Chicago, MODUS, and the Capital Enclave) have yet to appear in the mod proper aside from a few hints of future content, along with the engaging narrative offered by the submod that allows the Enclave featured to either double down on their evil actions, embrace a more pragmatic form of Fascism, or even try to genuinely make amends for their past crimes.

* BrokenBase: The role of the Enclave in this mod, with the implication that the Chicago Enclave would be the ultimate BigBad of the setting. Some find the idea of a expanded role of the Enclave a interesting narrative and a good opportunity to either fight an iconic villain group in the setting or even play as them in lieu of the official games relegating them to antagonist status, while others find both the Enclave overrated and the premise lore-breaking, citing that evidence of a strong Enclave Detachment in Chicago is based on extremely vague lore and that apart from the [[VideoGame/Fallout3 Capital Enclave]], most of the Enclave would have dissolved in the 2270s. There is also the debate as to if Enclave remnants should be given options(popularized by the ''VideoGame/EnclaveReborn'' submod) to reform their ideology to something saner, with proponents arguing that it could make for an interesting redemption arc for the faction and detractors arguing that it feeds into [[DracoInLeatherPants excessively apologetic]] views on the Enclave and potentially enables real-world far-right radicalization, especially with [[Anime/MobileSuitGundam various]] [[TabletopGame/Warhammer40000 fanbases]] [[Anime/AttackOnTitan known]] to whitewash certain villains being accused of enabling real world far-right beliefs and Paradox facing criticism for its' refusal to showcase Nazi atrocities in [=HOI4=] as potentially leading to radicalization as well.