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Accidentally left this out of last edit
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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: While the movie seems to paint Clay as the OnlySaneMan, he generally comes off as unsympathetic and controlling to the common audience. The movie doesn't couch him as right in his behavior.
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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: While the movie seems to paint Clay as the OnlySaneMan, he generally comes off as unsympathetic and controlling to the common audience. The movie doesn't couch him as right in his behavior.
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Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: While the movie seems to paint Clay as the OnlySaneMan, he generally comes off as unsympathetic and controlling to the common audience. The movie doesn't couch him as right in his behavior. An admittedly charitable interpretation says he's a flawed individual trying to overcome his guilt and fear to open up to someone who cares about him. He went from one extreme as the pornographer frat boy to a recluse. The arc is to take him from a recluse to a loving, faithful partner. The film challenges his behavior by having people call him out. People in the film tend to view him as a bit off, sanctimonious or self-flagellating for old sins. He acknowledges that he's hiding in his shop. His friend calls him out for trying to drive Amber away when he has her cut up food for his daughter. There does seem to be a back and forth between them where Amber pushes him to be romantic (like including the things Amber described during their grocery store conversation) and they try to find a middle. He doesn't ask her to be a stay at home mother or do anything different. The "counseling" is entirely focused on them learning what their values are to understand if they are compatible.
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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: While the movie seems to paint Clay as the OnlySaneMan, he generally comes off as unsympathetic and controlling to the common audience. The movie doesn't couch him as right in his behavior. An admittedly charitable interpretation says he's a flawed individual trying to overcome his guilt and fear to open up to someone who cares about him. He went from one extreme as the pornographer frat boy to a recluse. The arc is to take him from a recluse to a loving, faithful partner. The film challenges his behavior by having people call him out. People in the film tend to view him as a bit off, sanctimonious or self-flagellating for old sins. He acknowledges that he's hiding in his shop. His friend calls him out for trying to drive Amber away when he has her cut up food for his daughter. There does seem to be a back and forth between them where Amber pushes him to be romantic (like including the things Amber described during their grocery store conversation) and they try to find a middle. He doesn't ask her to be a stay at home mother or do anything different. The "counseling" is entirely focused on them learning what their values are to understand if they are compatible.
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* {{Anvilicious}}: The film believes that dating is simply an excuse for pre-marital sex and is not subtle about it.
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** There's also the fact that Clay refuses to be alone with any woman who is not his wife. It's supposed to make him seem celibate and respectful to his woman, however, it comes across as sexist in of itself by implying that [[AllWomenAreLustful women by themselves tempt men into sex]], and not to mention what WebVideo/TheCinemaSnob has to say:
--->'''Snob:''' [[BrutalHonesty No, that's not sweet]], that's what a ''[[PedoHunt pedophile]]'' says when he can't be alone in a room with a child!
--->'''Snob:''' [[BrutalHonesty No, that's not sweet]], that's what a ''[[PedoHunt pedophile]]'' says when he can't be alone in a room with a child!
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Changed line(s) 1,3 (click to see context) from:
* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation
** Clay generally comes off as unsympathetic and controlling to the common audience. The movie doesn't couch him as right in his behavior. An admittedly charitable interpretation says he's a flawed individual trying to overcome his guilt and fear to open up to someone who cares about him. He went from one extreme as the pornographer frat boy to a recluse. The arc is to take him from a recluse to a loving, faithful partner. The film challenges his behavior by having people call him out. People in the film tend to view him as a bit off, sanctimonious or self-flagellating for old sins. He acknowledges that he's hiding in his shop. His friend calls him out for trying to drive Amber away when he has her cut up food for his daughter. There does seem to be a back and forth between them where Amber pushes him to be romantic (like including the things Amber described during their grocery store conversation) and they try to find a middle. He doesn't ask her to be a stay at home mother or do anything different. The "counseling" is entirely focused on them learning what their values are to understand if they are compatible.
*** Or the movie could just think he's the OnlySaneMan.
** Clay generally comes off as unsympathetic and controlling to the common audience. The movie doesn't couch him as right in his behavior. An admittedly charitable interpretation says he's a flawed individual trying to overcome his guilt and fear to open up to someone who cares about him. He went from one extreme as the pornographer frat boy to a recluse. The arc is to take him from a recluse to a loving, faithful partner. The film challenges his behavior by having people call him out. People in the film tend to view him as a bit off, sanctimonious or self-flagellating for old sins. He acknowledges that he's hiding in his shop. His friend calls him out for trying to drive Amber away when he has her cut up food for his daughter. There does seem to be a back and forth between them where Amber pushes him to be romantic (like including the things Amber described during their grocery store conversation) and they try to find a middle. He doesn't ask her to be a stay at home mother or do anything different. The "counseling" is entirely focused on them learning what their values are to understand if they are compatible.
*** Or the movie could just think he's the OnlySaneMan.
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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation
**AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: While the movie seems to paint Clay as the OnlySaneMan, he generally comes off as unsympathetic and controlling to the common audience. The movie doesn't couch him as right in his behavior. An admittedly charitable interpretation says he's a flawed individual trying to overcome his guilt and fear to open up to someone who cares about him. He went from one extreme as the pornographer frat boy to a recluse. The arc is to take him from a recluse to a loving, faithful partner. The film challenges his behavior by having people call him out. People in the film tend to view him as a bit off, sanctimonious or self-flagellating for old sins. He acknowledges that he's hiding in his shop. His friend calls him out for trying to drive Amber away when he has her cut up food for his daughter. There does seem to be a back and forth between them where Amber pushes him to be romantic (like including the things Amber described during their grocery store conversation) and they try to find a middle. He doesn't ask her to be a stay at home mother or do anything different. The "counseling" is entirely focused on them learning what their values are to understand if they are compatible.
*** Or the movie could just think he's the OnlySaneMan.compatible.
**
*** Or the movie could just think he's the OnlySaneMan.
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** Plus the OldShame videos he shot in his youth are presumably meant to be parodies of Girls Gone Wild, but considering the fact that the girls are ''crying'' in them, they look pretty damn date rape-y.
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** Plus the OldShame videos he shot in his youth are presumably meant to be parodies of Girls Gone Wild, but considering the fact that the girls are ''crying'' in them, they look pretty damn date rape-y. Although this is more indicative of the production crew apparently seeing no difference between Girls Gone Wild videos and sexual snuff films than anything else, which is problematic in its own right.
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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation
** Clay generally comes off as unsympathetic and controlling to the common audience. The movie doesn't couch him as right in his behavior. An admittedly charitable interpretation says he's a flawed individual trying to overcome his guilt and fear to open up to someone who cares about him. He went from one extreme as the pornographer frat boy to a recluse. The arc is to take him from a recluse to a loving, faithful partner. The film challenges his behavior by having people call him out. People in the film tend to view him as a bit off, sanctimonious or self-flagellating for old sins. He acknowledges that he's hiding in his shop. His friend calls him out for trying to drive Amber away when he has her cut up food for his daughter. There does seem to be a back and forth between them where Amber pushes him to be romantic (like including the things Amber described during their grocery store conversation) and they try to find a middle. He doesn't ask her to be a stay at home mother or do anything different. The "counseling" is entirely focused on them learning what their values are to understand if they are compatible.
*** Or the movie could just think he's the OnlySaneMan.
** Clay generally comes off as unsympathetic and controlling to the common audience. The movie doesn't couch him as right in his behavior. An admittedly charitable interpretation says he's a flawed individual trying to overcome his guilt and fear to open up to someone who cares about him. He went from one extreme as the pornographer frat boy to a recluse. The arc is to take him from a recluse to a loving, faithful partner. The film challenges his behavior by having people call him out. People in the film tend to view him as a bit off, sanctimonious or self-flagellating for old sins. He acknowledges that he's hiding in his shop. His friend calls him out for trying to drive Amber away when he has her cut up food for his daughter. There does seem to be a back and forth between them where Amber pushes him to be romantic (like including the things Amber described during their grocery store conversation) and they try to find a middle. He doesn't ask her to be a stay at home mother or do anything different. The "counseling" is entirely focused on them learning what their values are to understand if they are compatible.
*** Or the movie could just think he's the OnlySaneMan.
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** Plus the OldShame videos he shot in his youth are presumably meant to be parodies of Girls Gone Wild, but considering the fact that the girls are ''crying'' in them, they look pretty damn date rape-y.
* Alternative Character Interpretation
** Clay generally comes off as unsympathetic and controlling to the common audience. The movie doesn't couch him as right in his behavior. An admittedly charitable interpretation says he's a flawed individual trying to overcome his guilt and fear to open up to someone who cares about him. He went from one extreme as the pornographer frat boy to a recluse. The arc is to take him from a recluse to a loving, faithful partner. The film challenges his behavior by having people call him out. People in the film tend to view him as a bit off, sanctimonious or self-flagellating for old sins. He acknowledges that he's hiding in his shop. His friend calls him out for trying to drive Amber away when he has her cut up food for his daughter. There does seem to be a back and forth between them where Amber pushes him to be romantic (like including the things Amber described during their grocery store conversation) and they try to find a middle. He doesn't ask her to be a stay at home mother or do anything different. The "counseling" is entirely focused on them learning what their values are to understand if they are compatible.
*** Or the movie could just think he's the only sane man.
* Alternative Character Interpretation
** Clay generally comes off as unsympathetic and controlling to the common audience. The movie doesn't couch him as right in his behavior. An admittedly charitable interpretation says he's a flawed individual trying to overcome his guilt and fear to open up to someone who cares about him. He went from one extreme as the pornographer frat boy to a recluse. The arc is to take him from a recluse to a loving, faithful partner. The film challenges his behavior by having people call him out. People in the film tend to view him as a bit off, sanctimonious or self-flagellating for old sins. He acknowledges that he's hiding in his shop. His friend calls him out for trying to drive Amber away when he has her cut up food for his daughter. There does seem to be a back and forth between them where Amber pushes him to be romantic (like including the things Amber described during their grocery store conversation) and they try to find a middle. He doesn't ask her to be a stay at home mother or do anything different. The "counseling" is entirely focused on them learning what their values are to understand if they are compatible.
*** Or the movie could just think he's the only sane man.
to:
** Plus the OldShame videos he shot in his youth are presumably meant to be parodies of Girls Gone Wild, but considering the fact that the girls are ''crying'' in them, they look pretty damn date rape-y.
* Alternative Character Interpretation
** Clay generally comes off as unsympathetic and controlling to the common audience. The movie doesn't couch him as right in his behavior. An admittedly charitable interpretation says he's a flawed individual trying to overcome his guilt and fear to open up to someone who cares about him. He went from one extreme as the pornographer frat boy to a recluse. The arc is to take him from a recluse to a loving, faithful partner. The film challenges his behavior by having people call him out. People in the film tend to view him as a bit off, sanctimonious or self-flagellating for old sins. He acknowledges that he's hiding in his shop. His friend calls him out for trying to drive Amber away when he has her cut up food for his daughter. There does seem to be a back and forth between them where Amber pushes him to be romantic (like including the things Amber described during their grocery store conversation) and they try to find a middle. He doesn't ask her to be a stay at home mother or do anything different. The "counseling" is entirely focused on them learning what their values are to understand if they are compatible.
*** Or the movie could just think he's the only sane man.rape-y.
* Alternative Character Interpretation
** Clay generally comes off as unsympathetic and controlling to the common audience. The movie doesn't couch him as right in his behavior. An admittedly charitable interpretation says he's a flawed individual trying to overcome his guilt and fear to open up to someone who cares about him. He went from one extreme as the pornographer frat boy to a recluse. The arc is to take him from a recluse to a loving, faithful partner. The film challenges his behavior by having people call him out. People in the film tend to view him as a bit off, sanctimonious or self-flagellating for old sins. He acknowledges that he's hiding in his shop. His friend calls him out for trying to drive Amber away when he has her cut up food for his daughter. There does seem to be a back and forth between them where Amber pushes him to be romantic (like including the things Amber described during their grocery store conversation) and they try to find a middle. He doesn't ask her to be a stay at home mother or do anything different. The "counseling" is entirely focused on them learning what their values are to understand if they are compatible.
*** Or the movie could just think he's the only sane man.
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Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
** Plus the OldShame videos he shot in his youth are presumably meant to be parodies of Girls Gone Wild, but considering the fact that the girls are ''crying'' in them, they look pretty damn date rape-y.
to:
** Plus the OldShame videos he shot in his youth are presumably meant to be parodies of Girls Gone Wild, but considering the fact that the girls are ''crying'' in them, they look pretty damn date rape-y.rape-y.
* Alternative Character Interpretation
** Clay generally comes off as unsympathetic and controlling to the common audience. The movie doesn't couch him as right in his behavior. An admittedly charitable interpretation says he's a flawed individual trying to overcome his guilt and fear to open up to someone who cares about him. He went from one extreme as the pornographer frat boy to a recluse. The arc is to take him from a recluse to a loving, faithful partner. The film challenges his behavior by having people call him out. People in the film tend to view him as a bit off, sanctimonious or self-flagellating for old sins. He acknowledges that he's hiding in his shop. His friend calls him out for trying to drive Amber away when he has her cut up food for his daughter. There does seem to be a back and forth between them where Amber pushes him to be romantic (like including the things Amber described during their grocery store conversation) and they try to find a middle. He doesn't ask her to be a stay at home mother or do anything different. The "counseling" is entirely focused on them learning what their values are to understand if they are compatible.
*** Or the movie could just think he's the only sane man.
* Alternative Character Interpretation
** Clay generally comes off as unsympathetic and controlling to the common audience. The movie doesn't couch him as right in his behavior. An admittedly charitable interpretation says he's a flawed individual trying to overcome his guilt and fear to open up to someone who cares about him. He went from one extreme as the pornographer frat boy to a recluse. The arc is to take him from a recluse to a loving, faithful partner. The film challenges his behavior by having people call him out. People in the film tend to view him as a bit off, sanctimonious or self-flagellating for old sins. He acknowledges that he's hiding in his shop. His friend calls him out for trying to drive Amber away when he has her cut up food for his daughter. There does seem to be a back and forth between them where Amber pushes him to be romantic (like including the things Amber described during their grocery store conversation) and they try to find a middle. He doesn't ask her to be a stay at home mother or do anything different. The "counseling" is entirely focused on them learning what their values are to understand if they are compatible.
*** Or the movie could just think he's the only sane man.
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* {{Glurge}}: The film, marketed as TheMoralSubstitute to ''Film/FiftyShadesOfGrey'', showing a love story based on romance and courtship rather than sex. Our hero, Clay Walsh, is so disgusted by the possibly of giving into his base desires, he ''refuses to be in the same room'' as his love interest Amber, and much of their so-called romance is actually him molding her to his ideal of a [[StayInTheKitchen properly submissive wife and mother,]] even making her cut up food for a friend's baby. In one scene, he shames a sex worker ''to her face'' (all in the name of "treating women with respect") and almost gets to a fight with her driver when he ''correctly'' points out that [[StrawmanHasAPoint Clay just cost her a night's worth of pay.]]
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* {{Glurge}}: {{Glurge}}:
** The film, marketed as TheMoralSubstitute to ''Film/FiftyShadesOfGrey'', showing a love story based on romance and courtship rather than sex. Our hero, Clay Walsh, is so disgusted by the possibly of giving into his base desires, he ''refuses to be in the same room'' as his love interest Amber, and much of their so-called romance is actually him molding her to his ideal of a [[StayInTheKitchen properly submissive wife and mother,]] even making her cut up food for a friend's baby. In one scene, he shames a sex worker ''to her face'' (all in the name of "treating women with respect") and almost gets to a fight with her driver when he ''correctly'' points out that [[StrawmanHasAPoint Clay just cost her a night's worth of pay.]]
** The film, marketed as TheMoralSubstitute to ''Film/FiftyShadesOfGrey'', showing a love story based on romance and courtship rather than sex. Our hero, Clay Walsh, is so disgusted by the possibly of giving into his base desires, he ''refuses to be in the same room'' as his love interest Amber, and much of their so-called romance is actually him molding her to his ideal of a [[StayInTheKitchen properly submissive wife and mother,]] even making her cut up food for a friend's baby. In one scene, he shames a sex worker ''to her face'' (all in the name of "treating women with respect") and almost gets to a fight with her driver when he ''correctly'' points out that [[StrawmanHasAPoint Clay just cost her a night's worth of pay.]]
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** Clay's treatment of Amber and her going along with it takes on a new dimension of creepy when you consider that it's shown that she's just gotten out of an abusive relationship with a controlling boyfriend. While Clay isn't physically abusive towards her, like the ex-boyfriend was, he has temper problems and still quite controlling. Even though Amber going to Clay is framed like her finally finding a nice guy to settle down with, it comes off more like her going from one abusive relationship to another, only somewhat-less abusive relationship.
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** He refuses to go inside his tenant's apartment to fix her appliances while she is still there, giving the reason that "he will not be alone with a woman who's not his wife", and instead ''makes her wait outside'' sometimes in middle of the night.[[labelnote:*]] [[WebVideo/TheCinemaSnob "You know, like a rapist."]][[/labelnote]]
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** He refuses to go inside his tenant's apartment to fix her appliances while she is still there, giving the reason that "he will not be alone with a woman who's not his wife", and instead ''makes her wait outside'' outside'', sometimes in middle of the night.[[labelnote:*]] [[WebVideo/TheCinemaSnob "You know, like a rapist."]][[/labelnote]]
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** Plus the OldShame videos he shot in his youth are presumably meant to be parodies of girls gone Wild, but considering the fact that the girls are ''crying'' in them, they look pretty damn Date Rape-y.
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** Plus the OldShame videos he shot in his youth are presumably meant to be parodies of girls gone Girls Gone Wild, but considering the fact that the girls are ''crying'' in them, they look pretty damn Date Rape-y.date rape-y.
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** He refuses to go inside his tenant's apartment to fix her appliances while she is still there, giving the reason that "he will not be alone with a woman who's not his wife", and instead ''makes her wait outside'' sometimes in middle of the night.
to:
** He refuses to go inside his tenant's apartment to fix her appliances while she is still there, giving the reason that "he will not be alone with a woman who's not his wife", and instead ''makes her wait outside'' sometimes in middle of the night.[[labelnote:*]] [[WebVideo/TheCinemaSnob "You know, like a rapist."]][[/labelnote]]
Changed line(s) 6 (click to see context) from:
** Plus the Oldshame videos he shot in his youth are presumably meant to be parodies of girls gone Wild, but considering the fact that the girls are ''crying'' in them, they look pretty damn Date Rape-y.
to:
** Plus the Oldshame OldShame videos he shot in his youth are presumably meant to be parodies of girls gone Wild, but considering the fact that the girls are ''crying'' in them, they look pretty damn Date Rape-y.
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None
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
** He also makes a scene on one of his friend's bachelor party by chasing away the stripper, the stripper and her manager are reasonably pissed with him. Never mind that it ''wasn't his own party'' and he had no right to decide what goes in it.
to:
** He also makes a scene on one of his friend's bachelor party by chasing away the stripper, the stripper and her manager are reasonably pissed with him. Never mind that it ''wasn't his own party'' and he had no right to decide what goes in it.it.
** Plus the Oldshame videos he shot in his youth are presumably meant to be parodies of girls gone Wild, but considering the fact that the girls are ''crying'' in them, they look pretty damn Date Rape-y.
** Plus the Oldshame videos he shot in his youth are presumably meant to be parodies of girls gone Wild, but considering the fact that the girls are ''crying'' in them, they look pretty damn Date Rape-y.
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None
Added DiffLines:
* {{Glurge}}: The film, marketed as TheMoralSubstitute to ''Film/FiftyShadesOfGrey'', showing a love story based on romance and courtship rather than sex. Our hero, Clay Walsh, is so disgusted by the possibly of giving into his base desires, he ''refuses to be in the same room'' as his love interest Amber, and much of their so-called romance is actually him molding her to his ideal of a [[StayInTheKitchen properly submissive wife and mother,]] even making her cut up food for a friend's baby. In one scene, he shames a sex worker ''to her face'' (all in the name of "treating women with respect") and almost gets to a fight with her driver when he ''correctly'' points out that [[StrawmanHasAPoint Clay just cost her a night's worth of pay.]]
* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: The protagonist is supposed to be a devout Christian man with strong values regarding dating, however, during the movie he becomes increasingly unlikable:
** He refuses to go inside his tenant's apartment to fix her appliances while she is still there, giving the reason that "he will not be alone with a woman who's not his wife", and instead ''makes her wait outside'' sometimes in middle of the night.
** Several other times his supposedly sweet and principled actions come across as creepy and unsettling, like when his tenant makes it clear that she's interested in him, and the first thing he does is taking her to a pastor to ''discuss marriage''.
** He also makes a scene on one of his friend's bachelor party by chasing away the stripper, the stripper and her manager are reasonably pissed with him. Never mind that it ''wasn't his own party'' and he had no right to decide what goes in it.
* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: The protagonist is supposed to be a devout Christian man with strong values regarding dating, however, during the movie he becomes increasingly unlikable:
** He refuses to go inside his tenant's apartment to fix her appliances while she is still there, giving the reason that "he will not be alone with a woman who's not his wife", and instead ''makes her wait outside'' sometimes in middle of the night.
** Several other times his supposedly sweet and principled actions come across as creepy and unsettling, like when his tenant makes it clear that she's interested in him, and the first thing he does is taking her to a pastor to ''discuss marriage''.
** He also makes a scene on one of his friend's bachelor party by chasing away the stripper, the stripper and her manager are reasonably pissed with him. Never mind that it ''wasn't his own party'' and he had no right to decide what goes in it.
