Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / LovedAndLost

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CompleteMonster: [[TheCaligula Jewelius]] is the [[EvilNephew sociopathic nephew]] of Princess Celestia. [[DrivenByEnvy Envious]] of the power his aunt and older cousin, Princess Cadence, have, Jewelius secretly organizes the Changeling invasion and allows Chrysalis to pose as Cadence at her wedding. Publicly accusing Celestia and the Mane Six--except Twilight--of focusing more on the wedding than on national security, [[TheEvilPrince Jewelius]] rallies up the disillusioned populace and royal guards and [[TyrantTakesTheHelm takes Celestia's position as ruler of Equestria]] by force. As king, Jewelius has his enemies exiled, orders the guards who were still loyal to Celestia to be murdered and replaced with criminals from the dungeons, raises the taxes in Ponyville and allowing the population there to starve just to spite the Mane Six, betraying Chrysalis and planning to enslave the Changelings, and ordering Celestia's execution when she returns. When he finds out Celestia and the Mane Six are hiding out in Ponyville, Jewelius orders his army to massacre Ponyville and threw one of his own soldiers out of a window for disagreeing with him.

to:

* CompleteMonster: [[TheCaligula Jewelius]] is the [[EvilNephew sociopathic nephew]] of Princess Celestia. [[DrivenByEnvy Envious]] of the power his aunt and older cousin, Princess Cadence, Cadance, have, Jewelius secretly organizes the Changeling invasion and allows Chrysalis to pose as Cadence Cadance at her wedding. Publicly accusing Celestia and the Mane Six--except Twilight--of focusing more on the wedding than on national security, [[TheEvilPrince Jewelius]] rallies up the disillusioned populace and royal guards and [[TyrantTakesTheHelm takes Celestia's position as ruler of Equestria]] by force. As king, Jewelius has his enemies exiled, orders the guards who were still loyal to Celestia to be murdered and replaced with criminals from the dungeons, raises the taxes in Ponyville and allowing the population there to starve just to spite the Mane Six, betraying Chrysalis and planning to enslave the Changelings, and ordering Celestia's execution when she returns. When he finds out Celestia and the Mane Six Five are hiding out in Ponyville, Jewelius orders his army to massacre Ponyville and threw throws one of his own soldiers out of a window for disagreeing with him.



** Jewelius argues in his propaganda speeches that [[WeHaveBecomeComplacent the entire ponykind has become too dependent on the alicorns and the Elements of Harmony to keep them safe]]. Vivian expresses the same sentiment during her MotiveRant to Rainbow Dash. Jewelius is hypocritical for being a coward who [[NonActionBigBad relies on his allies to do the fighting for him]], and Vivian's logic of the ponykind becoming independent under his rule is screwed up, as Rainbow Dash states. Unfortunately, the argument is not completely invalid, given who usually solve the canon crises in the show. There's also the fact that in the fic itself, [[spoiler:Ponyville is saved from Jewelius' army when the Elements of Harmony are used to [[TakenForGranite turn them to stone]], and the Changelings are then blasted out of Equestria by Shining Armor and Cadance as per canon]]. In principle, the ponykind toughening up a bit wouldn't be such a bad idea in case the powerful heroes weren't around…

to:

** Jewelius argues in his propaganda speeches that [[WeHaveBecomeComplacent the entire ponykind has become too dependent on the alicorns and the Elements of Harmony to keep them safe]]. Vivian expresses the same sentiment during her MotiveRant to Rainbow Dash. Jewelius is hypocritical for being a coward who [[NonActionBigBad relies on his allies to do the fighting for him]], and Vivian's logic of the ponykind becoming independent under his rule is screwed up, as Rainbow Dash states. Unfortunately, the argument is not completely invalid, given who usually solve the canon crises in the show. There's also the fact that in the fic itself, [[spoiler:Ponyville is saved from Jewelius' army when the Elements of Harmony are used to [[TakenForGranite turn them to stone]], and the Changelings are then blasted out of Equestria by Shining Armor and Cadance as per canon]]. In principle, the ponykind toughening up a bit wouldn't be such a bad idea in case the powerful heroes weren't around…around...
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
It was already stated that this example was a misuse; if a character realises they were wrong and apologizes, they (or at least, their actions) are probably not meant to be seen as sympathetic.


* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: Twilight Sparkle gets a ''nasty'' case of this throughout the first half of the story to the point where it overlaps with ProtagonistCenteredMorality:
** She places the blame for the Changeling invasion on her friends and brother for leaving her alone... ignoring the fact that Shining Armor was brainwashed (as shown when "Cadence" had to reapply the spell just to keep him compliant). As well as the fact that ''Twilight herself'' didn't provide any physical/visual evidence for her claims that Cadence was evil and simply barged into the room, started screaming that Cadence was evil, and chased her out of the room crying, giving all of her friends and mentor the perfect reason to turn their backs on her. And yet she never considers the fact that from their point of view, Twilight had just chased Cadence out of petty spite.
** It gets worse later on as Twilight never wises up to Jewelius' manipulations until it's almost too late. Allowing her brother to be whipped for an incident that was no fault of his own, turning her back on her friends and family over a grudge (over an incident that she ''brought upon herself''), and nearly let her mentor be EXECUTED while her friends were all exiled from Equestria... and had the audacity to claim ''they all deserved it''.
** This is made even worse near the climax of the story where her apologies to her friends, family, and mentor are very simplistic and barely given any focus when compared to the paragraphs of dialogue the rest of the cast get when apologizing to her. The narrative even goes out of its way to imply that she was ''still'' in the right to act the way she did.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
They do not, her regretting these action does not erase the fact the she all but willingly assisted in committing treason and was willing to let her friends be exiled, her brother tortured, and her mentor executed just to get even with them. And once again, the narrative barely has her chewed out for her actions yet everyone who suffered via her actions is still treated as if they're still more in the wrong. Stop deleting thus entry or I'll bring this up with the mods.

Added DiffLines:

* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: Twilight Sparkle gets a ''nasty'' case of this throughout the first half of the story to the point where it overlaps with ProtagonistCenteredMorality:
** She places the blame for the Changeling invasion on her friends and brother for leaving her alone... ignoring the fact that Shining Armor was brainwashed (as shown when "Cadence" had to reapply the spell just to keep him compliant). As well as the fact that ''Twilight herself'' didn't provide any physical/visual evidence for her claims that Cadence was evil and simply barged into the room, started screaming that Cadence was evil, and chased her out of the room crying, giving all of her friends and mentor the perfect reason to turn their backs on her. And yet she never considers the fact that from their point of view, Twilight had just chased Cadence out of petty spite.
** It gets worse later on as Twilight never wises up to Jewelius' manipulations until it's almost too late. Allowing her brother to be whipped for an incident that was no fault of his own, turning her back on her friends and family over a grudge (over an incident that she ''brought upon herself''), and nearly let her mentor be EXECUTED while her friends were all exiled from Equestria... and had the audacity to claim ''they all deserved it''.
** This is made even worse near the climax of the story where her apologies to her friends, family, and mentor are very simplistic and barely given any focus when compared to the paragraphs of dialogue the rest of the cast get when apologizing to her. The narrative even goes out of its way to imply that she was ''still'' in the right to act the way she did.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
The My God What Have I Done and Jerkass Realization tropes say otherwise.


* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: Twilight Sparkle gets a ''nasty'' case of this throughout the first half of the story to the point where it overlaps with ProtagonistCenteredMorality:
** She places the blame for the Changeling invasion on her friends and brother for leaving her alone... ignoring the fact that Shining Armor was brainwashed (as shown when "Cadence" had to reapply the spell just to keep him compliant). As well as the fact that ''Twilight herself'' didn't provide any physical/visual evidence for her claims that Cadence was evil and simply barged into the room, started screaming that Cadence was evil, and chased her out of the room crying, giving all of her friends and mentor the perfect reason to turn their backs on her. And yet she never considers the fact that from their point of view, Twilight had just chased Cadence out of petty spite.
** It gets worse later on as Twilight never wises up to Jewelius' manipulations until it's almost too late. Allowing her brother to be whipped for an incident that was no fault of his own, turning her back on her friends and family over a grudge (over an incident that she ''brought upon herself''), and nearly let her mentor be EXECUTED while her friends were all exiled from Equestria... and had the audacity to claim ''they all deserved it''.
** This is made even worse near the climax of the story where her apologies to her friends, family, and mentor are very simplistic and barely given any focus when compared to the paragraphs of dialogue the rest of the cast get when apologizing to her. The narrative even goes out of its way to imply that she was ''still'' in the right to act the way she did.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
No reason was given for the deletion of the previously added tropes, simply removing it because you don't like it isn't justifiable.

Added DiffLines:

* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: Twilight Sparkle gets a ''nasty'' case of this throughout the first half of the story to the point where it overlaps with ProtagonistCenteredMorality:
** She places the blame for the Changeling invasion on her friends and brother for leaving her alone... ignoring the fact that Shining Armor was brainwashed (as shown when "Cadence" had to reapply the spell just to keep him compliant). As well as the fact that ''Twilight herself'' didn't provide any physical/visual evidence for her claims that Cadence was evil and simply barged into the room, started screaming that Cadence was evil, and chased her out of the room crying, giving all of her friends and mentor the perfect reason to turn their backs on her. And yet she never considers the fact that from their point of view, Twilight had just chased Cadence out of petty spite.
** It gets worse later on as Twilight never wises up to Jewelius' manipulations until it's almost too late. Allowing her brother to be whipped for an incident that was no fault of his own, turning her back on her friends and family over a grudge (over an incident that she ''brought upon herself''), and nearly let her mentor be EXECUTED while her friends were all exiled from Equestria... and had the audacity to claim ''they all deserved it''.
** This is made even worse near the climax of the story where her apologies to her friends, family, and mentor are very simplistic and barely given any focus when compared to the paragraphs of dialogue the rest of the cast get when apologizing to her. The narrative even goes out of its way to imply that she was ''still'' in the right to act the way she did.

Removed: 1666

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: Twilight Sparkle gets a ''nasty'' case of this throughout the first half of the story to the point where it overlaps with ProtagonistCenteredMorality:
** She places the blame for the Changeling invasion on her friends and brother for leaving her alone... ignoring the fact that Shining Armor was brainwashed (as shown when "Cadence" had to reapply the spell just to keep him compliant). As well as the fact that ''Twilight herself'' didn't provide any physical/visual evidence for her claims that Cadence was evil and simply barged into the room, started screaming that Cadence was evil, and chased her out of the room crying, giving all of her friends and mentor the perfect reason to turn their backs on her. And yet she never considers the fact that from their point of view, Twilight had just chased Cadence out of petty spite.
** It gets worse later on as Twilight never wises up to Jewelius' manipulations until it's almost too late. Allowing her brother to be whipped for an incident that was no fault of his own, turning her back on her friends and family over a grudge (over an incident that she ''brought upon herself''), and nearly let her mentor be EXECUTED while her friends were all exiled from Equestria... and had the audacity to claim ''they all deserved it''.
** This is made even worse near the climax of the story where her apologies to her friends, family, and mentor are very simplistic and barely given any focus when compared to the paragraphs of dialogue the rest of the cast get when apologizing to her. The narrative even goes out of its way to imply that she was ''still'' in the right to act the way she did.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:


* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: Twilight Sparkle gets a ''nasty'' case of this throughout the first half of the story to the point where it overlaps with ProtagonistCenteredMorality:
** She places the blame for the Changeling invasion on her friends and brother for leaving her alone... ignoring the fact that Shining Armor was brainwashed (as shown when "Cadence" had to reapply the spell just to keep him compliant). As well as the fact that ''Twilight herself'' didn't provide any physical/visual evidence for her claims that Cadence was evil and simply barged into the room, started screaming that Cadence was evil, and chased her out of the room crying, giving all of her friends and mentor the perfect reason to turn their backs on her. And yet she never considers the fact that from their point of view, Twilight had just chased Cadence out of petty spite.
** It gets worse later on as Twilight never wises up to Jewelius' manipulations until it's almost too late. Allowing her brother to be whipped for an incident that was no fault of his own, turning her back on her friends and family over a grudge (over an incident that she ''brought upon herself''), and nearly let her mentor be EXECUTED while her friends were all exiled from Equestria... and had the audacity to claim ''they all deserved it''.
** This is made even worse near the climax of the story where her apologies to her friends, family, and mentor are very simplistic and barely given any focus when compared to the paragraphs of dialogue the rest of the cast get when apologizing to her. The narrative even goes out of its way to imply that she was ''still'' in the right to act the way she did.

Removed: 4863

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
flame bait


* WhatAnIdiot:
** [[spoiler:Jewelius has Vivian take care of the brainwashed bridesmaids so that Twilight and Cadance can interrupt the wedding ceremony. When he tells Chrysalis of what he did, she's surprised by his betrayal.]]\\
'''You'd Expect:''' [[spoiler:Chrysalis would reveal to everypony her now broken partnership with Jewelius and what he has done to help her switch places with Cadance. By doing that, she'd have a chance to deny him whatever he seeks to gain out of betraying her, even if he calls her a liar.]]\\
'''Instead:''' [[spoiler:Chrysalis brushes off the entire issue, confident her victory is assured anyway. She ends up being shrunken and trapped in a glass jar, and it's not until a week later that she's able to expose Jewelius to the heroes when all of them are at his mercy and locked up in cells along with her.]]
** After Twilight has stopped the Changelings, Jewelius starts aggressively calling out all the other heroes (even Cadance who can't be held accountable for being taken by surprise) of their mistakes while the wedding guests and some guards are present. He doesn't really give anypony a chance to properly explain themselves, and Vivian points her horn threateningly toward Celestia the moment the princess opens her mouth.\\
'''You'd Expect:''' Celestia would understand that she needs to assert herself, sternly stop her nephew from making biased accusations, and start properly clearing things up for everypony.\\
'''Instead:''' Celestia takes no action to stop her nephew from speaking even when he's addressing the ponies in Canterlot's streets. She only asks him to calm himself while letting her own nervousness show, and says that everything would have been resolved differently if Twilight -- the hero who just stopped the Changelings -- had just kept a cool head and brought evidence to back up her accusations.[[note]]Jewelius overrules this argument by pointing out that Celestia chose to let the wedding proceed instead of first taking care of the attackers she was warned about.[[/note]] [[NothelpingYourCase She makes it worse for herself and the heroes]] by telling them to run right after Jewelius has promised in his speech to correct their mistakes. This backfires horribly as the attempt fails and makes them look as guilty as he says they are. [[NiceJobBreakingItHero This in turn leads to them all being imprisoned and scorned on by everypony.]]
** When the fugitives (sans Luna) sneak inside Canterlot's castle and try to reach the library in search of Twilight, they come across an intersection of three hallways. They [[LetsSplitUpGang decide to split into three groups]] and reach the library through the three different routes, thinking they'll be less likely to get caught if they aren't all together.\\
'''You'd Expect:''' The princesses and Shining Armor would first use their knowledge of the castle to give each group instructions on how to best reach the library through the different paths and possibly avoid any patrolling guards. Or better yet, Celestia, Cadance and Shining Armor should each be leading one of the groups.\\
'''Instead:''' The fugitives split up randomly (with Celestia and Shining Armor both in one group and Cadance in another) and start finding their ways without further discussions. Only the group of Celestia, Shining Armor and Spike reaches the library without being noticed. All the others are found by Hildread, leading Cadance to [[YouShallNotPass buy them time to escape]] and end up being injured by [[spoiler:Jewelius]]. That in turn leads to Twilight renouncing her brother, friends and mentor in anger before she detains them with a magic dome and allows them to be imprisoned again.
** All the Changelings escape from Canterlot's dungeons at the same time the fugitive heroes escape as well, causing mass panic among Canterlot's citizens.\\
'''You'd Expect:''' [[PragmaticVillainy If only for the sake of his image]], Jewelius would pacify the citizens by making preparations against a new Changeling invasion, or at least claim he is doing so to the public so that he can pursue the heroes discreetly. Or even pursue them later.\\
'''Instead:''' Jewelius [[SkewedPriorities absolutely refuses to spare a thought for the Changelings until he's done with the heroes]], even when Twilight herself asks him to focus on the Changelings who're definitely more of a threat to ponies than the fugitives. He tries to get the citizens off his back by having Twilight lie to them, but [[SuddenPrincipledStand she disobeys his orders]], and he allows her to realize his true nature in their following argument, leading her to escape from Canterlot with the Elements of Harmony and rejoin the other heroes. [[spoiler:After Jewelius' army is petrified by the Elements and he's cornered by the heroes, the Changelings take their chance to kill him while he's at his weakest.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


'''You'd Expect:''' [[PragmaticVillainy If only for the sake of his image]], Jewelius would pacify the citizens by making preparations against a new Changeling invasion (or at least claim he is doing in so to the public so that he can pursue the heroes discreetly). Or even pursue them later.\\

to:

'''You'd Expect:''' [[PragmaticVillainy If only for the sake of his image]], Jewelius would pacify the citizens by making preparations against a new Changeling invasion (or invasion, or at least claim he is doing in so to the public so that he can pursue the heroes discreetly).discreetly. Or even pursue them later.\\

Changed: 127

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


'''You'd Expect:''' [[PragmaticVillainy If only for the sake of his image]], Jewelius would pacify the citizens, make preparations against a new Changeling invasion, and try to get rid of the heroes later, or at least discreetly.\\

to:

'''You'd Expect:''' [[PragmaticVillainy If only for the sake of his image]], Jewelius would pacify the citizens, make citizens by making preparations against a new Changeling invasion, and try invasion (or at least claim he is doing in so to get rid of the public so that he can pursue the heroes later, or at least discreetly.discreetly). Or even pursue them later.\\

Removed: 1307

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Again, not YMMV tropes, and Twilight's Took A Level In Jerkass example is already covered up in the main page. If you insist on hating Twilight in this story, I can't do anything about that. But this page is not to vent out hatred. Unintentionally Unsympathetic might be a better trope to cover your opinion on the matter, but please refrain from focusing on some facts and ignoring the others.


* ForgotAboutHisPowers: Despite witnessing her brother being tortured and her mentor about to be hanged, Twilight never once uses her a teleportation abilities to get them to safety.



* ItsAllAboutMe: Twilight gets a nasty case of this throughout the first half of the story. Placing the blame on her friends and her brother for leaving her behind alone... ignoring the fact that Shining Armor was brainwashed (as shown when "Cadence" had to reapply the spell just to keep him compliant), as well as the fact that Twilight herself didn't really provide any evidence to her claims and simply barged into the room, start screaming that Cadence was evil, and chased out of the room crying, giving all of her friends and mentor the perfect reason to turn their backs on her. And yet she never considers the from their point of view, she just chased away the bride out of petty spite.



* TookALevelInJerkass: Twilight never wises up to Jewelius manipulations until it's almost too late. Allowing her brother to be whipped for an incident that was no fault of his own, turning her back on all of her friends and family leave for a grudge (over an incident that she brought upon herself), nearly let her mentor be EXECUTED and her friends exiled from Equestria (and had the audacity to claim that ''all deserved it'').
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ForgotAboutTheirPowers: Despite witnessing her brother being tortured and her mentor about to be hanged, Twilight never once uses her a teleportation abilities to get them to safety.

to:

* ForgotAboutTheirPowers: ForgotAboutHisPowers: Despite witnessing her brother being tortured and her mentor about to be hanged, Twilight never once uses her a teleportation abilities to get them to safety.

Top